The Dark Knight Harvey Dent/Two Face Thread

That's just it, though. How does killing the villain that should have an ongoing affect on Batman and his life make the story better?
Until we see the film, we don't know the effect for certain. My guess is though
that Batman feels allowing Harvey to take the blame for his murders would tarnish Harvey's legacy, given how much he is loved by the citizens of Gotham, and he is prepared to shoulder the burden.
Clearly this implies a sacrifice on Batman's part that carries more weight than if Harvey
were alive and there were some hope of Batman being exonerated at some stage.
Isn't that heroic?
 
Vile I suggest you go to a theater ands pay the measly 7-10 dollars to see TDK.

k?
 
Yes, he is. But I can't say I blame you. Alot of what comes out of Hollywood is crap, luckly this won't be the case with TDK! :cwink:

Very true! TDK will be awesome! No doubt!


Vile I suggest you go to a theater ands pay the measly 7-10 dollars to see TDK.

k?


Well I certainly dont want you to lose sleep over this - very well, I'll do just that. Infact I will pay for 13 showings to make up for missed time. Honestly. I will. I'm sorry to upset.


:woot:
 
it looks like it'll be more like the entire movie is about harvey dent's rise and fall in gotham. that in no way is anything like venom in spidey3. this has the makings of being the greatest comic book based movie ever, that was never said of spidey3.

i've kinda accepted the fact that if
two-face dies, it won't be in vain. it won't be for nothing.
two-face is my favorite bat-villain. best/most realistic origin: guy on top of the world doing so much good, but winds up becoming everything he fought so hard to prevent. i have faith that it won't be the sh**fest that venom was in that other movie.
 
sub-zero, that was the weakest spoiler-prevention I have yet seen. ;)
 
That's just it, though. How does killing the villain that should have an ongoing affect on Batman and his life make the story better?

Well Harvey Dent is actually probably my favorite character of Batman's rogue gallery. Joker is my favorite villain (like most) and is by far the most entertaining. But the one I really like seeing explored and to get in the psyche of is Two-Face. Joker is better as an enigma, a mystery. Harvey Dent's tragedy is we know who he is and where he came from to end up at such a low and dispcable point. Also, it shows Batman as a far different hero than most. While most would not give up on their friend, no matter how far he fell (Superman wouldn't, Spidey didn't when Harry went crazy or everytime Conners turned into the Lizard) in the comics Batman literally turns his back on his friend by the end of Dark Victory and considers all the good Harvey Dent did absolved and looks at him not as a fallen friend...but as a villain to deal with and nothing more. That is a striking relationship that adds some poignancy and tragedy to Batman's character as well.

So I am all for some Two-Face action. However, if they do this right, I'll be contented. I personally would like it to follow the unofficial Bat-origins trilogy (BB=Year One, TDK=Long Halloween and Batman 3 would=Dark Victory). But if Nolan has other plans I am fine with that. I love an auteur who is faithful to the source but is unafraid to stray from the details to create something new or in their unique vision.

As long as the rise and fall of Harvey Dent is well displayed and we get some good Two-Face action (I want to see a confrontation between him and Batman similar to the one they had in TLH over Falcone). I don't know how he dies as I refused to read the spoilers and only found out he kicks it on accident. But I always thought Two-Face was most interesting as a mirky shadow/reflection of Batman.

Here was the member of the justice trio of Bats, Gordon and Dent. Dent was closer to Batman's philosophy on getting things done than Gordon's by-the-book approach. He even helped Batman do illegal things to weaken the mafia's hold on Gotham. But he is a vain and ambitious man (his two flaws). These are both directly attacked when his life, marriage are ruined by the scarring of his face. He is pushed over the edge and does what Batman will not--he kills the bad guys so they don't come back. He is out for blood. He is still after the same ends as Batman but they are now enemies because Two-Face is a killer. Substitute a marriage to Rachel Dawes (who I think is pretty obviously going to get killed off by the Joker, but I'm just guessing) and you have a real tragic figure of a man pushed too far.

And that was the most interesting thing about Two-Face. He just took it further and further in Dark Victory to the point that Batman didn't even recognize Dent in the villain anymore. And then he is "killed" by the Joker (I don't know if that is how it happens in the movie, but I hope it is something more cinematic). In some ways I wish in the new continuity that Two-Face stayed dead after Joker shot him off the cliff. Simply put, he was better as this tragic shadow of Batman than a mobster. The brilliant reinvention of Dent by Loeb/Sale never felt right to me when he becomes a villain in later years. This Harvey Dent (who is going to be the main inspiration for TDK's incarnation of him I bet) becoming a mobster. The things he felt stole his life from him and ruined his city...the things he wanted to destroy no matter if he worked with the freaks or not...never made a whole lot of sense.

So, if they kill him at the climax of his bloody retribution, I am fine with that. I would have rather it gone further and got more nasty between him and Batman in a third movie like it did in Dark Victory. But if Nolan wants to tell it all in one movie with new ideas for a third, I'm fine with that.

P.S. Don't tell me the circumstances of his death, I want to at least be surprised by that. :p
 
it looks like it'll be more like the entire movie is about harvey dent's rise and fall in gotham. that in no way is anything like venom in spidey3. this has the makings of being the greatest comic book based movie ever, that was never said of spidey3.

i've kinda accepted the fact that if
two-face dies, it won't be in vain. it won't be for nothing.
two-face is my favorite bat-villain. best/most realistic origin: guy on top of the world doing so much good, but winds up becoming everything he fought so hard to prevent. i have faith that it won't be the sh**fest that venom was in that other movie.

Actually one year ago (well a little more now ;) ) the hype was flooded with people proclaiming SM3 a masterpiece and the best comic book movie ever. Why? It had some epic trailers and they thought it was going to all be about Venom. Sucks for them, eh? ;)

I never thought Venom was going to be a major player in SM3 as the black suit was the focus of trailers not Venom and there was no way to do him in one movie effectively. I thought that ever since fanboys were crying for him to be in SM1. I had thought SM3 would be better than it was, b ut I still enjoyed the movie for what it was and not what Venom fans wanted it to be.

But you are right there is a clear difference. Nolan has intentionally crafted Dent to be as much of a major player in the story as Joker. While Two-Face may only show up for the third act of the movie, the movie was built to let this happen gradually and hopefully successfully. Venom was shoe-horned in at the last minute by producers and the movie was never about him and it shows. There are essientially two movies in SM3 going on. I'm hoping for only one complete masterpiece in TDK.
 
Actually one year ago (well a little more now ;) ) the hype was flooded with people proclaiming SM3 a masterpiece and the best comic book movie ever. Why? It had some epic trailers and they thought it was going to all be about Venom. Sucks for them, eh? ;)

I never thought Venom was going to be a major player in SM3 as the black suit was the focus of trailers not Venom and there was no way to do him in one movie effectively. I thought that ever since fanboys were crying for him to be in SM1. I had thought SM3 would be better than it was, b ut I still enjoyed the movie for what it was and not what Venom fans wanted it to be.

But you are right there is a clear difference. Nolan has intentionally crafted Dent to be as much of a major player in the story as Joker. While Two-Face may only show up for the third act of the movie, the movie was built to let this happen gradually and hopefully successfully. Venom was shoe-horned in at the last minute by producers and the movie was never about him and it shows. There are essientially two movies in SM3 going on. I'm hoping for only one complete masterpiece in TDK.

with all the reviews and good word of mouth even before the movie has released makes me think it will be.
 
Very true! TDK will be awesome! No doubt!


Well I certainly dont want you to lose sleep over this - very well, I'll do just that. Infact I will pay for 13 showings to make up for missed time. Honestly. I will. I'm sorry to upset.


:woot:

LOL!

Went too far didn't I? I'm ashamed I said it.....:o :csad:

Yes, yes you did. Hang your head in shame sir!!!!
 
Harvey Dent/Two-Face is one of the greatest characters/villains in all of Batman Lore. Nolan is going to own the hell out him. He is going to rock our socks.

That is all.
 
Gooooooood points, makes me really think about how great the Two-Face character will be.
 
Well Harvey Dent is actually probably my favorite character of Batman's rogue gallery. Joker is my favorite villain (like most) and is by far the most entertaining. But the one I really like seeing explored and to get in the psyche of is Two-Face. Joker is better as an enigma, a mystery. Harvey Dent's tragedy is we know who he is and where he came from to end up at such a low and dispcable point. Also, it shows Batman as a far different hero than most. While most would not give up on their friend, no matter how far he fell (Superman wouldn't, Spidey didn't when Harry went crazy or everytime Conners turned into the Lizard) in the comics Batman literally turns his back on his friend by the end of Dark Victory and considers all the good Harvey Dent did absolved and looks at him not as a fallen friend...but as a villain to deal with and nothing more. That is a striking relationship that adds some poignancy and tragedy to Batman's character as well.

So I am all for some Two-Face action. However, if they do this right, I'll be contented. I personally would like it to follow the unofficial Bat-origins trilogy (BB=Year One, TDK=Long Halloween and Batman 3 would=Dark Victory). But if Nolan has other plans I am fine with that. I love an auteur who is faithful to the source but is unafraid to stray from the details to create something new or in their unique vision.

As long as the rise and fall of Harvey Dent is well displayed and we get some good Two-Face action (I want to see a confrontation between him and Batman similar to the one they had in TLH over Falcone). I don't know how he dies as I refused to read the spoilers and only found out he kicks it on accident. But I always thought Two-Face was most interesting as a mirky shadow/reflection of Batman.

Here was the member of the justice trio of Bats, Gordon and Dent. Dent was closer to Batman's philosophy on getting things done than Gordon's by-the-book approach. He even helped Batman do illegal things to weaken the mafia's hold on Gotham. But he is a vain and ambitious man (his two flaws). These are both directly attacked when his life, marriage are ruined by the scarring of his face. He is pushed over the edge and does what Batman will not--he kills the bad guys so they don't come back. He is out for blood. He is still after the same ends as Batman but they are now enemies because Two-Face is a killer. Substitute a marriage to Rachel Dawes (who I think is pretty obviously going to get killed off by the Joker, but I'm just guessing) and you have a real tragic figure of a man pushed too far.

And that was the most interesting thing about Two-Face. He just took it further and further in Dark Victory to the point that Batman didn't even recognize Dent in the villain anymore. And then he is "killed" by the Joker (I don't know if that is how it happens in the movie, but I hope it is something more cinematic). In some ways I wish in the new continuity that Two-Face stayed dead after Joker shot him off the cliff. Simply put, he was better as this tragic shadow of Batman than a mobster. The brilliant reinvention of Dent by Loeb/Sale never felt right to me when he becomes a villain in later years. This Harvey Dent (who is going to be the main inspiration for TDK's incarnation of him I bet) becoming a mobster. The things he felt stole his life from him and ruined his city...the things he wanted to destroy no matter if he worked with the freaks or not...never made a whole lot of sense.

So, if they kill him at the climax of his bloody retribution, I am fine with that. I would have rather it gone further and got more nasty between him and Batman in a third movie like it did in Dark Victory. But if Nolan wants to tell it all in one movie with new ideas for a third, I'm fine with that.

P.S. Don't tell me the circumstances of his death, I want to at least be surprised by that. :p

I don't think he was really killed.
 
I don't think he was really killed.

No, he isn't. But for the moment Batman and Jim Gordon believes he is. We Two-Face alive a few pages later and implying he is about to begin his conquest as a mobster. I was saying I kind of wish they left him dead when he fell into that abyss, because how Loeb reinvented the character (and how Nolan is using him) is far more interesting and logical as a vigilante who hates the mob and doesn't care what he has to do to destroy it (murder, work with freaks like the Joker who he used to help put away, etc.) than as a run of the mill supervillain and mobster, which is how he is usually depicted. In the new background created for him it made little sense and I see Nolan scrapping that aspect. Albeit he could have expanded the villain/vigilante aspect by keeping him around for the third. However, I'll wait to see the final film before I judge.

I don't like how people are already convinced that the character will either be brilliantly/perfectly done or done in an insulting/failed way without having even seen the movie. Wait until you see it, then judge.
 
No, he isn't. But for the moment Batman and Jim Gordon believes he is. We Two-Face alive a few pages later and implying he is about to begin his conquest as a mobster. I was saying I kind of wish they left him dead when he fell into that abyss, because how Loeb reinvented the character (and how Nolan is using him) is far more interesting and logical as a vigilante who hates the mob and doesn't care what he has to do to destroy it (murder, work with freaks like the Joker who he used to help put away, etc.) than as a run of the mill supervillain and mobster, which is how he is usually depicted. In the new background created for him it made little sense and I see Nolan scrapping that aspect. Albeit he could have expanded the villain/vigilante aspect by keeping him around for the third. However, I'll wait to see the final film before I judge.

I don't like how people are already convinced that the character will either be brilliantly/perfectly done or done in an insulting/failed way without having even seen the movie. Wait until you see it, then judge.

Gotach!

Yeah, I don't like that either.
 
Possible spoilers regarding Dent/ Two-Face: you probably already anyway

If what i'm hearing about Dent is true i'm not going to be too pleased.
I respect Nolan, and loved Batman Begins, It is my favorite movie, evah!
But seriously i've waited for too long to finally get my fav comic book villian on screen (BF doesn't count, it was The Joker dressed liked Two-Face) to have this happen.
I hope that it is just some wanker with nothing better to do than make up **** rumours, because i don't want to see that happen to Dent so soon, as i thought they would of used him much more in a future film.
WTF?! :(
 
Very true! TDK will be awesome! No doubt!





Well I certainly dont want you to lose sleep over this - very well, I'll do just that. Infact I will pay for 13 showings to make up for missed time. Honestly. I will. I'm sorry to upset.


:woot:

Haven't paid to see a film since 2001? Congratualtions. You are a certified dirtbag. :up:
 
Possible spoilers regarding Dent/ Two-Face: you probably already anyway

If what i'm hearing about Dent is true i'm not going to be too pleased.
I respect Nolan, and loved Batman Begins, It is my favorite movie, evah!
But seriously i've waited for too long to finally get my fav comic book villian on screen (BF doesn't count, it was The Joker dressed liked Two-Face) to have this happen.
I hope that it is just some wanker with nothing better to do than make up **** rumours, because i don't want to see that happen to Dent so soon, as i thought they would of used him much more in a future film.
WTF?! :(

Nice.
 
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