The Dark Knight Heath Ledger Joker figure

[Figs]

ok, if nolan didnt take this route and some fan made a film making joker look like this, most fans would be sh**ing on it, saying how hes not permawhite and all. lets just say, if nolan wasnt the one doing it, most if not all the fanboys would be saying this joker looks like crap. but because nolan is doing *GASP!* it looks wonderful!

LOL, most fans did in fact **** on Nolan's as well. It wasn't til more pictures came out that fans started warming up to it. Then when the trailer came out and we could see a bit of his performance that also changed a lot of fans minds.

Their was some serious debates and arguments going on in the Is Joker permawhite thread months back.

 

[CaptainClown]

ok, if nolan didnt take this route and some fan made a film making joker look like this, most fans would be sh**ing on it, saying how hes not permawhite and all. lets just say, if nolan wasnt the one doing it, most if not all the fanboys would be saying this joker looks like crap. but because nolan is doing *GASP!* it looks wonderful!

most fans are complaining about. That is actually one of the biggest gripes most fans seem to have on this joker... It is not like everyone thinks everything he does is genius, though there are a few on here who worship Nolan like he is the savior of the world.

 

[Nightwing1977]

Bah! Caterpillar eyebrows!

Yep. That what I hate about the Joker there. It just too distracting with using the unnecssary caterpillar eyebrows. Not to mention the nose & chin. I prefer real chin & nose. Joker don't need to have those, since people don't care about those.

 

[GoogleMe94]

that Dead End joker looks waaay too cartoony and fake. looks like joker for a theatre production, not a movie.

 

[Crook]

LOL, most fans did in fact **** on Nolan's as well. It wasn't til more pictures came out that fans started warming up to it. Then when the trailer came out and we could see a bit of his performance that also changed a lot of fans minds.

That should have never happened in the first place. Performance and appearance don't affect each other.

 

[Keyser Soze]

That should have never happened in the first place. Performance and appearance don't affect each other.

I think the appearance works in the context of the performance, and this particular interpretation of The Joker.

 

[Keyser Soze]

ok, if nolan didnt take this route and some fan made a film making joker look like this, most fans would be sh**ing on it, saying how hes not permawhite and all. lets just say, if nolan wasnt the one doing it, most if not all the fanboys would be saying this joker looks like crap. but because nolan is doing *GASP!* it looks wonderful!

You know, there are people other than you who are able to form an independent, agenda-free opinion. I say I like TDK's Joker, not because I'm a blind, Burton-hating Nolanite, but because.....*GASP!*....I ACTUALLY like it!

 

[Crook]

I think the appearance works in the context of the performance, and this particular interpretation of The Joker.

Really? I feel it has no relevance in Heath's acting whatsoever.

Do you really think if we had permawhite, we'd get a different interpretation of Joker's behavior and actions?

 

[Cúchulainn]

Really? I feel it has no relevance in Heath's acting whatsoever.

Do you really think if we had permawhite, we'd get a different interpretation of Joker's behavior and actions?

Well, don't you think you'd act kinda differently if you had bright white skin,a horrific deformaty after a chemical bath, instead of just putting on white make up? Of course you would have a different interpretation of Joker. His motives etc would be entirely different.

 

[Crook]

I'm not talking about motives. Simply talking about his behavioral attitude, and what he'd do in certain situations.

Take the scenes at the empty street, interrogation room, or at the dinner party. Can you name some things Joker would do different solely because he now has permanent white skin? I certainly can't think of any.

 

[Cúchulainn]

I'm not talking about motives. Simply talking about his behavioral attitude, and what he'd do in certain situations.

Take the scenes at the empty street, interrogation room, or at the dinner party. Can you name some things Joker would do different solely because he now has permanent white skin? I certainly can't think of any.

Well, he wouldn't put on make up just to scare people for a start. That changes his behaviour, doesn't it?

Well seeing that you know as much about those scenes as I do (ie, nothing apart from the trailer and sides), neither of us can comment on what he would or wouldn't do, white skin or not, it's a fallacious argument I'm afraid!

 

[Keyser Soze]

I wasn't talking so much about The Joker's behaviour and motives, as I was about this particular grimy, gritty, anarchic interpretation of The Joker, and how he fits into the world Nolan established in "Begins".

 

[Crook]

Well, he wouldn't put on make up just to scare people for a start. That changes his behaviour, doesn't it?

Well that's an obvious fact. It's still irrelevant to the whole general scheme of things.

It's like when someone chooses to wear a black shirt, instead of a yellow one. Yes, there might be some change in behavior that results in choosing that specific color, but does it extend past that?

Is that person going to talk to people differently? Pick up a glass differently? Walk differently? Etc.

That's what I mean.

Well seeing that you know as much about those scenes as I do (ie, nothing apart from the trailer and sides), neither of us can comment on what he would or wouldn't do, white skin or not, it's a fallacious argument I'm afraid!

We've seen enough, to see what he's like. It's not like we just saw him standing for 2 minutes.

 

[Sandouras]

14 pages about an action figure of the joker. It reminds me of a silly movie i saw with my sister a few months ago: Sydney White. Stupid movie, but those of you who have seen it might get what i am mildly implying here.

 

[Cúchulainn]

Well that's an obvious fact. It's still irrelevant to the whole general scheme of things.

Your argument is irrelevant?

It's like when someone chooses to wear a black shirt, instead of a yellow one. Yes, there might be some change in behavior that results in choosing that specific color, but does it extend past that?

Yes it does. I mean, someone could put on a black shirt instead of a yellow one and the way they act wouldn't change. But if that person fell into a vat of toxic chemicals and had their skin forever bleached a bright white colour, well, I gotta be honest with ya! I think they might act differently.

Is that person going to talk to people differently?

Probably. Some people lose all their confidence after being grossly disfigured. If someone fell into a giant vat of toxic chemicals and had their skin forever bleached a bright white the way they interact with people might be somewhat different, as people would react to them. You would definitely be aware of the fact that you were a bright white colour when you were talking to people and that this might freak them out. Furthermore, the toxic chemicals may have damaged your vocal chords.

[/quote]

Pick up a glass differently?

No. Luckily, Joker's relationships with crockery isn't in issue in TDK.

Walk differently? Etc.

Possibly. If you were in an accident which involved you falling into a giant vat of toxic chemicals and had their skin forever bleached a bright white, you might be in some way injured, and you might walk differently. The toxic chemicals may also have affected your nervous system or your muscles.

 

[Cúchulainn]

We've seen enough, to see what he's like. It's not like we just saw him standing for 2 minutes.

LOL, thats ridiculous! What did you see of the Joker in the interrogation room!? You saw him smack his lips!

You see him walk down an empty street. And standing.

You See him shoot a gun!

Maybe I'm defeated here. You're a better man than I am! I can't say I know how the joker acts to certain situations in a film from based on a trailer from which i have heard about 5 lines of dialogue from a character and seen about 30 seconds of footage.

 

[Crook]

I'm just gonna skip all the unnecessary sarcasm, and get to the meat of this entire argument:

Possibly. If you were in an accident which involved you falling into a giant vat of toxic chemicals and had their skin forever bleached a bright white, you might be in some way injured, and you might walk differently. The toxic chemicals may also have affected your nervous system or your muscles.

Wow. How far do you wanna stretch that? You really think Heath would have changed the way he hunched and walked based on that above?

He's said from day one that he had a very specific way of approaching the character. This was before he was cast, and obviously before he read the script. He was always gonna do that same performance regardless of whether the character had make-up or not.

Thus, people's opinions on the make-up (good or bad) SHOULD NOT have had anything to do with being worried about a performance that was set in stone from the get-go.

Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[Cúchulainn]

Wow. How far do you wanna stretch that? You really think Heath would have changed the way he hunched and walked based on that above?

You asked me how would falling into a giant vat of toxic chemicals change the way someone walked. (No offence, but as if i'd know! And it was a silly question!) ANd now you're chastising me for answering it!? Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer, as the saying goes.

I was just displaying the failings in your fallacious argument my friend!

He's said from day one that he had a very specific way of approaching the character. This was before he was cast, and obviously before he read the script. He was always gonna do that same performance regardless of whether the character had make-up or not.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Question: If he knew EXACTLY how he was going to portray the character (even before he was cast?!), before he read the script even, and if it was, as you say, set in stone...

After he was cast and after he had read the script...

WHY DID HE SPEND 6 WEEKS LOCKED IN HIS HOTEL ROOM DEVELOPING HIS CHARACTER!?!?!?

Just curious.

 

[Crook]

You asked me how would falling into a giant vat of toxic chemicals change the way someone walked. (No offence, but as if i'd know! And it was a silly question!) ANd now you're chastising me for answering it!? Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer, as the saying goes.

I was just displaying the failings in your fallacious argument my friend!

I'm chastising you for stretching extremes to prove a point. I mean seriously, you're gonna bring up the nervous system into this?

Question: If he knew EXACTLY how he was going to portray the character (even before he was cast?!), before he read the script even, and if it was, as you say, set in stone...

After he was cast and after he had read the script...

WHY DID HE SPEND 6 WEEKS LOCKED IN HIS HOTEL ROOM DEVELOPING HIS CHARACTER!?!?!?

Just curious.

To expand upon the direction he and Nolan were going for. Is that not obvious? Just because he's developing the character, does not mean every facet has been specified.

As I said before, if permawhite was included into the equation during this development process, do you think anything would have changed? Honestly.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I think its about time this got taken over to the "I guess the joker applies make-up after all" thread.

 

[Cúchulainn]

I'm chastising you for stretching extremes to prove a point. I mean seriously, you're gonna bring up the nervous system into this?

.

LOL... You asked me how could having permawhite skin affect the way you walk. It was a silly, fallacious question purely designed to put your argument in a better light. A classic straw man argument.

I then answered your question with a logical answer. If one's skin is bleached permawhite, there is a possibility that the toxicity of the chemicals could have inhibited nervous impulses from being transerred from axion to axiom because the said toxic chemicals may have had some inhibitor properties.

I gave you a logical answer to a ridiculous question, you cannot complain.

And I think that if an actor felt the need to lock himself alone in a hotel room for 6 weeks to come up with a character, nothing was set in stone.

NOTHING. It was 6 weeks!

 

[Cúchulainn]

I'm chastising you.

Also, lol... What gives you the right to do that?!

As I said before, if permawhite was included into the equation during this development process, do you think anything would have changed? Honestly.

I really genuinely think the character would have changed somewhat. A person who was in a terrible accident and looks grotesque as a result is different to a person who puts on makeup to scare people and look grotesque on purpose. I would have thought that was obvious.

 

[Crook]

LOL... You asked me how could having permawhite skin affect the way you walk. It was a silly, fallacious question purely designed to put your argument in a better light. A classic straw man argument.

I then answered your question with a logical answer. If one's skin is bleached permawhite, there is a possibility that the toxicity of the chemicals could have inhibited nervous impulses from being transerred from axion to axiom because the said toxic chemicals may have had some inhibitor properties.

I gave you a logical answer to a ridiculous question, you cannot complain.

Except all of this has been a misunderstanding of the context in which my question was posed. Whereas your explanation deals with the scenario in the film's world, my question was directed at Nolan and Ledger's interpretation of the role. Quite a difference.

And I think that if an actor felt the need to lock himself alone in a hotel room for 6 weeks to come up with a character, nothing was set in stone.

NOTHING. It was 6 weeks!

I think the general idea was definitely set in stone. From the interviews we've had, it's clear Ledger had an idea of what his final take would have been like. It's just the in-between that was unclear.

Also, lol... What gives you the right to do that?!

Didn't realize I needed permission. Sorry.

I really genuinely think the character would have changed somewhat. A person who was in a terrible accident and looks grotesque as a result is different to a person who puts on makeup to scare people and look grotesque on purpose. I would have thought that was obvious.

And it is. My point has never been about "what he does as a result of how he got there" but "how he got there is irrelevant because the final result would have likely been the same in either case".

 

[Mr. Socko]

ZOMG Perma-white debate!!!

 

[nickyg641]

Isn't it funny how all threads, over time, will evolve into a permawhite debate, no matter what the original topic?