The Dark Knight Heath Ledger Joker figure

[GoogleMe94]

i dont think i will ever get used to the idea of non perma white joker. thats just not the character.

 

[Nepenthes]

I see the concern, expecially in the groan-worthy one-liners, but really how can you know that's where the character starts and ends? Those are the exact types of kewl moments that are always selected for trailers, and it's what's easist to introduce to the public, as a taster. Joker IS a clown themed villain, he says clowny stuff, even in the comics. He can be reduced to a cartoon but you actually have to see the movie for the whole story though. That said I agree I was disapointed when we heard that Joker is "an absolute" and doesn't even have a character arc, WTF is that. I really, really, did not want a Joker that is evil because he "just is". That is an off-the-rack bad guy fer sure. But we'll see. Even the line "there's no turning back" is heartening, I see potential in that scene. The line speaks volumes in four words.

The man who wears the Joker identity by choice rather than accident is arguably the most interesting and non-boring aspect of the new Joker to me. Not that I agree with it, but i'm certainly open to being entertained by it and at least, as a seasoned bat-fan, it's not going to be a Joker I've already seen somewhere before.

My main point was though that it could have been much worse, easily. And even with the cut smiles, make-up and shiity clothes I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised by the total package. That's a considerable feat.

 

[Crook]

He espouses painfully hackneyed clown references like "why so serious?" and "let's put a smile on that face" which recall Arnold's endless "cold" puns in Batman and Robin.

I'm not gonna lie, it is re-emerging the use of thematic puns by villains. Which in it's own right, is very corny.

But at the very least, Heath pulled off those lines for me. On paper I probably would have denounced it, but Heath completely played it straight. That's the difference in making your lines sound natural, or rehearsed.

 

[Gianakin_]

That said I agree I was disapointed when we heard that Joker is "an absolute" and doesn't even have a character arc, WTF is that.

I think the whole character arc deal is that he won't be shown to have quiet moments to himself (a la Bruce), explanations about his origin or moments where he'll morally question his own actions and evolve through that etc etc.
Which makes sense to me.

 

[Viper81]

I didn't at any time think the "Why so serious" and "let's put a smile on that face" as corny at all. I thought it was PERFECT.

Especially the way Ledger delivers the lines. They are perfect and I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[CorpusBlack]

It's going to be a 13 inch doll from DC Direct/Corgi. There should be pictures this weekend.

Thanks man.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I think the whole character arc deal is that he won't be shown to have quiet moments to himself (a la Bruce), explanations about his origin or moments where he'll morally question his own actions and evolve through that etc etc.
Which makes sense to me.

Bingo! Agreed absolutely. I think its a big strength that The Joker is an "absolute", that he's just a primal evil with no explanation or redeeming features. That's The Joker to me: pure chaos. Too many villains recently have been lumbered with the sympathy card. Backstories and character arcs have sullied the names of both Darth Vader and Hannibal Lecter in recent prequels. And it should be noted that the best movie villains of recent years - Anton Chigurh, Don Logan - are guys who just appear out of nowhere, and embody an evil that "just is".

 

[Gianakin_]

The difference is that Vader was always meant to be a tragic character. Joker and Lecter aren't. The Prequels had reason to exist and give the origin of Vader.

 

[strikezone89]

dont we have a products thread?

anyways cool looking figure

 

[Matchbox]

Nolan's Joker is an off-the-rack "bad guy" who does bad things because he's bad. He may as well be wearing a purple coat and sloppy facepaint for licensing reasons, and to make the action figure more attractive to children. He espouses painfully hackneyed clown references like "why so serious?" and "let's put a smile on that face" which recall Arnold's endless "cold" puns in Batman and Robin. He is more of a plagarism than an adaptation of The Joker from the comics, because the character has been written as a man who merely wears the "Joker identity" for effect.

The most interesting things about him are his socks.

I know that's your opinion, but I think your stretching things a bit. I honestly don't think we've seen enough of Ledger's Joker to label him as an "off-the-rack bad guy". Your "plagarism" comment really throws me off. I just don't think it makes much sense when used in this instance. I mean, you either stay faithful to the comics, or you adapt it in your own vision; I didn't think plagarism was a third option. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were really reaching to find a negative term to pin to the phrases of this new Joker. I don't think the "Why so serious?" and "Let's put a smile on that face" are anywhere near the "cold" puns used in Batman & Robin. They're in the same vein, but the corniness factor is astronomically different for me. I love the way the lines were delivered and I don't think it's much of a stretch for the character to use these phrases in a tougue-in-cheek manner.

P.S. I remember a Ledger interview from a while back where the interviewer was describing Ledger's Joker as "dark, more serious, more vicous" and Heath corrected him by saying that his Joker isn't just a dark character. "I don't want to give anything away, but there's some real surprises with him" --or something to that effect. Perhaps what you've seen in trailers and little snippets isn't all that the character is.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I know that's your opinion, but I think your stretching things a bit. I honestly don't think we've seen enough of Ledger's Joker to label him as an "off-the-rack bad guy". Your "plagarism" comment really throws me off. I just don't think it makes much sense when used in this instance. I mean, you either stay faithful to the comics, or you adapt it in your own vision; I didn't think plagarism was a third option. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were really reaching to find a negative term to pin to the phrases of this new Joker. I don't think the "Why so serious?" and "Let's put a smile on that face" are anywhere near the "cold" puns used in Batman & Robin. They're in the same vein, but the corniness factor is astronomically different for me. I love the way the lines were delivered and I don't think it's much of a stretch for the character to use these phrases in a tougue-in-cheek manner.

P.S. I remember a Ledger interview from a while back where the interviewer was describing Ledger's Joker as "dark, more serious, more vicous" and Heath corrected him by saying that his Joker isn't just a dark character. "I don't want to give anything away, but there's some real surprises with him" --or something to that effect. Perhaps what you've seen in trailers and little snippets isn't all that the character is.

It's that old mindset that annoys me. It's not enough to say "I don't like this particular take on The Joker", because that would accept the opinion of those who DO like it as valid. So instead, it goes one step forward and becomes "This is NOT The Joker". It's the kind of thinking that goes back to the old "If you like organics then you're not a true Spider-Man fan!" gambit that emerged with the release of the first film.

 

[Dangerous]

I think it looks pretty good.

What I don't like is the way DC do the hip joints on their figures, Toy Biz Marvel figures do it the right way...aside from that, I wish his neck was white, so I could at least pretend he is permawhite.

 

[namtaB]

It's that old mindset that annoys me. It's not enough to say "I don't like this particular take on The Joker", because that would accept the opinion of those who DO like it as valid. So instead, it goes one step forward and becomes "This is NOT The Joker". It's the kind of thinking that goes back to the old "If you like organics then you're not a true Spider-Man fan!" gambit that emerged with the release of the first film.

Frankly its quite pathetic. Its a sophomoric mindset of if I don't agree with it, it must unequivocally wrong. But at least it provides me with some entertainment for the day. How can you not laugh at these posters?

 

[regwec]

My comments are a statement of opinion, submitted because Nepenthes requested it. Twice.

You're free to like whatever you like, but I really don't need my preferences to be validated, thanks.

 

[GoogleMe94]

The difference is that Vader was always meant to be a tragic character. Joker and Lecter aren't. The Prequels had reason to exist and give the origin of Vader.

we did NOT need to know the origins of vader. that was rediculous. in fact, i hate the SW prequels for more then just making vader a whiny punk who cant act his way out of a paper bag, but they started this horrible trend of "prequel-izing" every franchise or movie series. now they HAVE to have the backstory on every major character that ever existed. i never liked "young" indiana jones, i HATED casino royale (even if its technically NOT a prequel, it is pretty much), i wasnt nuts about batman begins (again, i blame the overdone origin stuff), and a host of other sh** that i cant think of at the moment. its just too much, i dont really care for the prequel type stuff, just get to the story.

and regwec is just stateing his opinions. what, you batfanatics cant handle someone disagreeing with you? oh, boohoo.

 

[Nightwing1977]

i dont think i will ever get used to the idea of non perma white joker. thats just not the character.

You realize what Joker does & his personality is what make the character, not if his skins is perma-white. Granted the white skins & green hair is his iconic look, but nowhere it said that it make the character. His behavior is what make the character: insane & disturbing.

 

[Gianakin_]

Googleme:
They got to the story (Originals) and then complemented it with the Prequels.

When you hear about Clone Wars, "your father was a good pilot", the Jedi of Old and stuff in the Orginal Trilogy, it warrants a prequel.

Hannibal and Joker don't. Simple as that. You didn't like the Prequels? That's another story, but they were definately worthy of being made.

And it's not GL's fault if others tried to copy what he (kinda) started, ok? Last time I checked, the other studios and makers are capable of making their own decisions.

 

[The Joker]

You realize what Joker does & his personality is what make the character, not if his skins is perma-white. Granted the white skins & green hair is his iconic look, but nowhere it said that it make the character. His behavior is what make the character: insane & disturbing.

Actually, it is the fact that he becomes permanently disfigured that drives Joker over the edge to become a sick, twisted, murderous clown. All of his various origin stories show him as a different person prior to becoming a permawhite clown.

Even those that show him as a criminal. So, his behaviour stems from his disfiguring. It affects his psyche. Just like with Two Face.

 

[Matchbox]

My comments are a statement of opinion, submitted because Nepenthes requested it. Twice.

You're free to like whatever you like, but I really don't need my preferences to be validated, thanks.

It's just discussion from this end, Reg.

 

[GoogleMe94]

Actually, it is the fact that he becomes permanently disfigured that drives Joker over the edge to become a sick, twisted, murderous clown. All of his various origin stories show him as a different person prior to becoming a permawhite clown.

Even those that show him as a criminal. So, his behaviour stems from his disfiguring. It affects his psyche. Just like with Two Face.

thank you. thats what i mean. this is not the joker we are getting, unfortunatly. i understand that they wanted to do something different, but was it really nessecary to change this aspect of the character?

 

[GoogleMe94]

Googleme:
They got to the story (Originals) and then complemented it with the Prequels.

When you hear about Clone Wars, "your father was a good pilot", the Jedi of Old and stuff in the Orginal Trilogy, it warrants a prequel.

complimented? more like sh** on the originals.

and no, those couple of offhand lines didnt "warrant" a whole trilogy of backstory films. that could have been left to novels, comics, videogames, etc. but to make a series of films that are campy and cheesy as hell and then make them part of the brilliant originals is almost a crime against humanity.

 

[Gianakin_]

'Cause you'd be fine if they'd changed something else?

 

[Mr. Socko]

I see the concern, expecially in the groan-worthy one-liners, but really how can you know that's where the character starts and ends? Those are the exact types of kewl moments that are always selected for trailers, and it's what's easist to introduce to the public, as a taster. Joker IS a clown themed villain, he says clowny stuff, even in the comics. He can be reduced to a cartoon but you actually have to see the movie for the whole story though. That said I agree I was disapointed when we heard that Joker is "an absolute" and doesn't even have a character arc, WTF is that. I really, really, did not want a Joker that is evil because he "just is". That is an off-the-rack bad guy fer sure. But we'll see. Even the line "there's no turning back" is heartening, I see potential in that scene. The line speaks volumes in four words.

The man who wears the Joker identity by choice rather than accident is arguably the most interesting and non-boring aspect of the new Joker to me. Not that I agree with it, but i'm certainly open to being entertained by it and at least, as a seasoned bat-fan, it's not going to be a Joker I've already seen somewhere before.

My main point was though that it could have been much worse, easily. And even with the cut smiles, make-up and shiity clothes I have to say I've been pleasantly surprised by the total package. That's a considerable feat.

Good post. I fully agree Nep

I didn't at any time think the "Why so serious" and "let's put a smile on that face" as corny at all. I thought it was PERFECT.

Especially the way Ledger delivers the lines. They are perfect and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Definitely, Ledger pulled the lines off perfectly. I think well played puns work pretty good.

When you hear about Clone Wars, "your father was a good pilot", the Jedi of Old and stuff in the Orginal Trilogy, it warrants a prequel.

Hannibal and Joker don't. Simple as that. You didn't like the Prequels? That's another story, but they were definately worthy of being made.

The Killing Joke was also worthy of being made. If anyone thinks Joker never needs a backstory that's fine but TKJ is arguably the most influential Batman comic featuring the Joker ever printed. You cannot deny what it did to the character, he wouldn't even be as famous amoung the comic book community if it weren't for TKJ, which presents a possible origin for the character. And it's actually not my favorite Joker origin, but it was great nonetheless and certainly didn't hurt the character.

 

[GoogleMe94]

actually, no, it wouldnt be fine. im not saying you have to copy nicholson, that would be dumb. heath's performance from what i cant tell is perfectly fine and original, but they should have kept permawhite. yet again, just like scarecrow, this will be another big "missed oppurtunity" i fear.


as for ledgers "corny" joker lines, um, thats always been with the character. every batman villian (other then the Begins villians) has had silly, campy one liners, and joker as we all know is the KING of that. so its just natural, nothing odd.

 

[Gianakin_]

complimented? more like sh** on the originals.

and no, those couple of offhand lines didnt "warrant" a whole trilogy of backstory films. that could have been left to novels, comics, videogames, etc. but to make a series of films that are campy and cheesy as hell and then make them part of the brilliant originals is almost a crime against humanity.

Excuse me, have you ever seen the originals? I mean... really seen them. They're goofy and campy as hell. If nothing else, the overall plot of the Prequels is tons darker than the one from the OT.

And, by the response and expectations of the fans after the end of the OT, the Prequels were warranted.