Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - Part 15

[The Guard]

That line is grossly misinterpreted. Superman is echoing the same sentiments Luthor shares later: the all powerful cannot be all good. It's true. No one stays good all the time. There are times when goodness falters. We all have light and dark inside of us, and sometimes the darkness cannot be kept completely at bay. That doesn't mean we all, including Superman, have the capacity for great evil. It is the same sentiment Bruce expresses at the end of the film. Men are still good, but they do fight and betray one another. It's the same thing Steve wants Diana to learn from him. Maybe we are all to blame.

Accurate.

And consider that even when he's doing good, he's not always doing what is considered "good". He's often engaging in violence, indirectly causing damage, going against authority or even the law, etc. At least in the comics.

There are gray areas to superheroes. Always have been. Most of them are vigilantes who use violence in some capacity to effect what they consider justice.

 

[The Guard]

Still boggles my mind on how Warner Bros paid actual money in deleting this...

to get this?

though at least now we all know on how to make even someone as handsome Henry look weird/scary on film.

Eh, this is a still shot. In the film, it works. He's a charming guy, and having a slightly weird looking grin doesn't change that.

I feel like someone posted a picture of Henry looking pretty much like this in a candid shot...with no CGI a while back.

 

[RomanticPenguin]

 

[idiot09]

Yeah its taking a line grossly out of context, from a scene where the hero was at its lowest point. I can easily say that Diana saying this is a Wonder Woman movie is criminal :

"She was right, my mother was right... she said the world of men do not deserve you, they don't deserve our help"

But I wont. Because its stupid af and completely misses the point

Who the hell is talking about Wonderwoman? I was talking about superman.

Apt.

 

[Limonade]

Well, if that was the intent, they should have worked harder. "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" just put it across so much better.

A much better line.

 

[Tra-El]

It really is shocking to me that people still have the energy! And I'm a highly energetic person to talk about these things. I'm just waiting for further movement with DC Films. Whatever it may be (excluding Shazam! and Aquaman. We already know the movement of these films.)

 

[misslane38]

A much better line.

Nah. It's fine for what it's doing in DK but isn't a suitable replacement for BvS.

Because not being good all the time doesn't automatically make you a villain. Things aren't that black and white, and even straying from goodness doesn't mean that's your endpoint. One can stumble and fall out of the "sun" or light and still find one's way back.

 

[Tra-El]

"Noone stays good in this world.." was a reference of power among ego's. At the time Clark spoke this in BvS, he knew he was being played in a situation that was too little too late. "Noone stays good in this world.." was followed up by Clark trying to convince Bruce to join him and persuade him into turning the tables against Lex. Superman said that quote but still set out to do the right thing by trying to talk to a rage induced Batman in the midst of a pretty scummy situation where the cards were stacked against him. I agree with misslane. It's not as black and white as the circumstance and quote called for. It was more of a reflection of the foreshadowing circumstance.

 

[Flint Marko]

Eh, this is a still shot. In the film, it works

No it absolutely did not

Seriously, like the movie all you want but you're kidding yourself if you think that embarrassing CG upper lip "worked".

 

[Limonade]

Nah. It's fine for what it's doing in DK but isn't a suitable replacement for BvS.

Right, agreed. Different context as well. Wouldn't have worked. It's still a good line in the DK.

Because not being good all the time doesn't automatically make you a villain. Things aren't that black and white, and even straying from goodness doesn't mean that's your endpoint. One can stumble and fall out of the "sun" or light and still find one's way back.

To me, "No one stays good in this world." was in the context of Superman telling Lois he might do something he'll regret. An ominous line.

I don't believe the film wasn't making any argument with that last line you said though. Unless, there's another scene that expanded on that line.

 

[misslane38]

Right, agreed. Different context as well. Wouldn't have worked. It's still a good line in the DK.

To me, "No one stays good in this world." was in the context of Superman telling Lois he might do something he'll regret. An ominous line.

I don't believe the film wasn't making any argument with that last line you said though. Unless, there's another scene that expanded on that line.

Gotta agree to disagree on this one, I'm afraid.

 

[heatvision38]

Yup right up there with "no one stays good in this world".

Oh, no, a moment of true self doubt. And yet, what did he do right afterwards? He still tried to get Batman to help him.

 

[heatvision38]

Who the hell is talking about Wonderwoman? I was talking about superman.
Wonderwoman is a demi-god warrior born amazon, she could kill and give up all she wants but superman is another thing entirely.
The 'symbol of hope' (according Snyder's MOS) doesn't abandon humanity and goes off on an acid trip with pa kent on top of a mountain only to come back supposedly all healed and rejuvenated only to spew off more downbeat dialogue like that before going off to fight batman.
To me superman giving up and moping like a b**** is just about as bad as superman killing in cold blood.

Maybe WW was not the comparison you made, but many hold Gadot's version of WW as hopeful, optimistic, inspiring, etc, etc, yet overlook the moments that, had Clark done it, it would have been critiqued to death, but if WW does it, because people overlook certain things if the character plays it with charm or it's not focused upon, then it's ok. That this WW is held up as hopeful despite some of the things she has done, including killing soldiers out of anger, yet hold lesser things more harshly against Superman is hypocritical, imo. I know you aren't arguing this, but it's just something that sticks out to me in general.

 

[heatvision38]

Well, if that was the intent, they should have worked harder. "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" just put it across so much better.

That line was said at a dinner where strong emotions were not involved. Very different.

 

[Black Narcissus]

JA Bayona posting more Superman pics.

 

[STARMAN]

If they're fully committing to these characters with Flashpoint then they might as well give us MOS 2.

 

[Arachnerd]

Give him the keys, WB. Give him the keys pls.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Give him the keys, WB. Give him the keys pls.

Looking more and more like it...

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Nobody stays good in the world is a quote that didn't not get a good resolution. It leads into the B v S fight where Superman was trying to seriously hurt Batman. Diana at her lowest point decided to turn back and retain her hope in humanity.

 

[misslane38]

It leads into the B v S fight where Superman was trying to seriously hurt Batman.

Not even close.

If Superman was trying to seriously hurt Batman, then Batman would have been seriously hurt. He wasn't.

Diana at her lowest point decided to turn back and retain her hope in humanity.

And Superman decided to apologize to Bruce, ask for his help, held back in battle, and trusted him to save his mother.

 

[Tra-El]

Yeah, it was a foreshadowing quote of what was about to take place. It figured into the arc of where the respective hero's mentality evolved. Superman acknowledged the dark of what the world represents, which led to Bruce acknowledging how men are still good after Superman's sacrifice towards the end. The quote foreshadowed the evident change of what was about to take place through the eyes of Superman, who was at the lowest mental pits of the circumstances.

 

[Tra-El]

JA Bayona posting more Superman pics.

My good buddy Patchwork man let me know that Bayona tweeted something Supes again. I went right on and wrote "Man of Steel 2 bruh" under the commentst:

 

[heatvision38]

Nobody stays good in the world is a quote that didn't not get a good resolution. It leads into the B v S fight where Superman was trying to seriously hurt Batman. Diana at her lowest point decided to turn back and retain her hope in humanity.

Actually, Superman tried to talk to Batman before Batman kept attacking him. WW, at her lowest point, killed a bunch of soldiers and needed to remember what Steve Trevor taught her in order not to kill Dr. Poison.

 

[honestbharani]

"Noone stays good in this world.." was a reference of power among ego's. At the time Clark spoke this in BvS, he knew he was being played in a situation that was too little too late. "Noone stays good in this world.." was followed up by Clark trying to convince Bruce to join him and persuade him into turning the tables against Lex. Superman said that quote but still set out to do the right thing by trying to talk to a rage induced Batman in the midst of a pretty scummy situation where the cards were stacked against him. I agree with misslane. It's not as black and white as the circumstance and quote called for. It was more of a reflection of the foreshadowing circumstance.

That line was said at a dinner where strong emotions were not involved. Very different.

I dont think so. Anyways, I feel there is an over-analysis of this quote. The line was fine for the story of the movie. My actual problem was the story itself. So in the end, it kinda does not matter. One thing I will say though is that the line is a lot more Batman than Superman and that is where I feel they went wrong. I will leave it at that as I feel this argument has been had a number of times.

 

[Sawyer]

If they're fully committing to these characters with Flashpoint then they might as well give us MOS 2.

Today's news kind of makes me think Flashpoint is off. Hearing that an offer was made to Affleck, someone who has only done dramatic work as a director, at some point, only for it to end up in the hands of a duo primarily responsible for lighthearted/comedic work, really makes me think that the offer to Affleck was a last ditch effort to: A) keep him on-board, and B) keep that iteration of the project alive.

Someone who has directed the stuff that Affleck has doesn't seem a completely unreasonable choice for a story where Barry goes back in time to stop his mother's death, f***s up the universe, and thereby puts two of his new friends at war with one another, causes another to be held captive all his life, and causes the dude who recruited him in the first place to be long dead, with his father taking up his mantle instead.

But comedy writer-directors? Can't picture it. I think it'll now, ideally, take the shape of WW's movie, as well as what we're hopefully given with Aquaman and Shazam. A solo adventure that's legitimately a SOLO adventure. After JL, it doesn't make sense to bark up that Flashpoint tree right now.