Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - Part 16

[gdw]

Superman's moral dilemma on who he can save. As the woman says - This dilemma was given the political flavor as they thought -
I love that they asked these hard questions, this shows how much harder Superman's job actually is as despite having Superpowers, he is not Omnipresent or omnipotent. He cannot save everyone.


[YT]Kk4MhKpZ12I[/YT]

This! I also love that they made a point of these NOT having easy answers either. In some cases they even embraced the unanswerable nature of some.
"Must there be a Superman?" "There is."

 

[gdw]

If you go by all the reports none of the cast and crew were happy with happened to Justice League. They were happy with the movie they filmed before all the interference. Just like how they were happy with Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice UC and not the TC. It just goes to show you how they truly loved and believed in the direction the series was going and how upset they were when it messed with.

I swear I first saw this in a video of him making these comments, but now I can't find the video in a single article on his comments.

 

[Tony Gunk]

The poor marketing was a factor, but what really sank JL was BvS. It was just so unbelievably bad that the GA said “forget it” and never had any interest in seeing another team up film from that universe.

 

[_Superman_]

The poor marketing was a factor, but what really sank JL was BvS. It was just so unbelievably bad that the GA said “forget it” and never had any interest in seeing another team up film from that universe.

agree to disagree because people were still hype for JL until the reshoots.

 

[Aurakles]

To me the problem was the movie is bad, a great film could have overcome poor marketing or a divisive preceding film.
If JL was brilliant, got good reviews and good word of mouth it would have overridden marketing/BVS issues.

Yes better marketing and a better reception for BVS would have improved the box office, but if JL was well liked it could have managed without those boosts.

 

[elgaz]

Combination of factors IMO.

Forgettable villain, poor/confusing marketing, Director changes halfway through leading to mixmash of tones/styles and reshoots, horrendous CGi on the moustache .......... all created a perfect storm.

 

[kguillou]

How does one exain Wonder Woman's phenomenal success then since that spun directly out of a movie that supposey spurned the GA so badly? By that logic they wouldnt want any part of anything coming out of BvS.

JL could've been a hit with a kick ass marketing campaign, they didnt have one, plain and simple. I dont think a lot of people even knew the movie was coming out.

 

[_Superman_]

How does one exain Wonder Woman's phenomenal success then since that spun directly out of a movie that supposey spurned the GA so badly? By that logic they wouldnt want any part of anything coming out of BvS.

JL could've been a hit with a kick ass marketing campaign, they didnt have one, plain and simple. I dont think a lot of people even knew the movie was coming out.

I think once they made up their mind for the reshoots is when the marketing push stopped and the WB wrote it off as a loss before it even hit. Because before the reshoots it was getting a push afterwards though all that stopped.

 

[Tra-El]

After the Comic Con trailer only a month or so after BvS's release trying to cater to critics and the naysayers, the hype died down and never regained momentum. Once Snyder stepped down and Whedon officially took over, the essence of interest around the film became Snyder V Whedon and who was going to be the eventual savior or goat. The marketing only showed 3 characters looking at things from different angles and the announcement of the 120 second run time only added to the awful PR. There was basically no hype when the movie came out. It did hit hype levels during a certain period but it was short-lived. Then the reviews came out and that's all she wrote. Follow that up with CGI mouth to OPEN the film and..well.. whatever.

 

[Superchan]

How does one exain Wonder Woman's phenomenal success then since that spun directly out of a movie that supposey spurned the GA so badly? By that logic they wouldnt want any part of anything coming out of BvS.

JL could've been a hit with a kick ass marketing campaign, they didnt have one, plain and simple. I dont think a lot of people even knew the movie was coming out.

Simple, Wonderwoman had a minor role in BvS and also happened to be the best part of the movie, also WW didn't open massively (103mill is very solid but hardly amazing for an iconic character like WW) the movie earned it's stripes the hard way by having wondrous legs.
Lastly BvS didn't supposedly spurn the GA it undoubtedly did judging by it's 27% critical score, it's underwhelming box office take and most importantly it's abysmal x2 multiplier, which is the lowest for any 100+ opening movie in history.

 

[Aurakles]

If JL was as well liked as Wonder Woman it too would have had good legs and gone on to be a success, but the poor quality of the product prevented this.

If JL was a great film, it could have overcome doubts created by BVS, bounced back from a poor opening thanks to word of mouth. But it wasn't a good film, and that's why it failed.

 

[idiot09]

If JL was as well liked as Wonder Woman it too would have had good legs and gone on to be a success, but the poor quality of the product prevented this.

If JL was a great film, it could have overcome doubts created by BVS, bounced back from a poor opening thanks to word of mouth. But it wasn't a good film, and that's why it failed.

After the Comic Con trailer only a month or so after BvS's release trying to cater to critics and the naysayers, the hype died down and never regained momentum. Once Snyder stepped down and Whedon officially took over, the essence of interest around the film became Snyder V Whedon and who was going to be the eventual savior or goat. The marketing only showed 3 characters looking at things from different angles and the announcement of the 120 second run time only added to the awful PR. There was basically no hype when the movie came out. It did hit hype levels during a certain period but it was short-lived. Then the reviews came out and that's all she wrote. Follow that up with CGI mouth to OPEN the film and..well.. whatever.

Yeah. Absolutely.

I think the peak hype periods were around when the first trailer was released and the character shorts were released. That was so much hype man. After Snyder stepped down, and then with all the rumors of reshoots...well you know what happened.

 

[STARMAN]

You have two poorly received films. One directing leading to another. Neither can be absolved of blame. To stabilized things WB needs to string some well-received films together, including hopefully another Superman film.

 

[Flint Marko]

How does one exain Wonder Woman's phenomenal success then since that spun directly out of a movie that supposey spurned the GA so badly? By that logic they wouldnt want any part of anything coming out of BvS.

JL could've been a hit with a kick ass marketing campaign, they didnt have one, plain and simple. I dont think a lot of people even knew the movie was coming out.

Wonder Woman got out unscathed because she was a tiny piece of Batman v Superman, and ultimately the most unanimously well-received part of the movie.

And even then, I question whether or not your average audience member related BvS to Wonder Woman once that movie came out a year and a half later. And even then, it's clear that movie was so wildly successful because of it's legs - people ran out and told their friends "guys it's actually good!"

Even if JL had a great marketing campaign and a smooth production, it wouldn't have been a hit.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

The general audience had little to no knowledge of all the reshoot/behind the scenes drama, I seriously doubt that was the major reason people decided not to see the film

JL failed because it was a bad movie, but a big part of that is because of the audience who bailed on the franchise with MOS followed by BvS

 

[Aurakles]

Do you think BVS would has caused JL to fail regardless of how good a film JL was?
Even if JL was top 10 films of all time, BVS would have prevented it being hit?

I'd also be interested to know how well you think JL would have done if BVS wasn't a factor. If the consensus was that BVS was "ok" do you think JL would have been a hit?

 

[kguillou]

And yet, I dont know, JL is a very strange beast because my audience loved the movie and from what Ive heard from other people's viewing experiences it seems like, in general, the people who DID go see it enjoyed the movie. If nothing else, the movie was very family friendly and the GA has no knoeledge about Whedon vs Snyder and moustachegate etc. But I suppose the movie wasnt strong enough for those people to go tell their friends and family that film is a must see, thats the problem. That and the fact that it couldnt pull in a large enough audience to begin with to get a large opening weekend.

 

[Flint Marko]

Do you think BVS would has caused JL to fail regardless of how good a film JL was?
Even if JL was top 10 films of all time, BVS would have prevented it being hit?

I'd also be interested to know how well you think JL would have done if BVS wasn't a factor. If the consensus was that BVS was "ok" do you think JL would have been a hit?

I think JL was destined to open relatively low. Not as low as it ended up, but lower than BvS.

And yet, I dont know, JL is a very strange beast because my audience loved the movie and from what Ive heard from other people's viewing experiences it seems like, in general, the people who DID go see it enjoyed the movie. If nothing else, the movie was very family friendly. But I suppose the movie wasnt strong enough for those people to go tell their friends and family that film is a must see, thats the problem. That and the fact that it couldnt pull in a large enough audience to begin with to get a large opening weekend.

I saw it opening weekend and also had a pretty vocal, responsive audience.

 

[2kt09]

And yet, I dont know, JL is a very strange beast because my audience loved the movie and from what Ive heard from other people's viewing experiences it seems like, in general, the people who DID go see it enjoyed the movie. If nothing else, the movie was very family friendly and the GA has no knoeledge about Whedon vs Snyder and moustachegate etc. But I suppose the movie wasnt strong enough for those people to go tell their friends and family that film is a must see, thats the problem. That and the fact that it couldnt pull in a large enough audience to begin with to get a large opening weekend.

I'll use my sis as an anecdote. Hasn't seen any of the other movies & hasn't talked about them in any capacity. Was enthusiastic for WW movie because female superhero/girl power/etc.

I asked her about JL and it was a pretty simple, "didn't that get bad reviews?"
There's no hook. There's no gimmick.
Has none of the inherent must-see appeal of the past 4 movies.

A year later I ask the same relatives if they wanna see JL and they thought it looked lame.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Do you think BVS would has caused JL to fail regardless of how good a film JL was?
Even if JL was top 10 films of all time, BVS would have prevented it being hit?

I'd also be interested to know how well you think JL would have done if BVS wasn't a factor. If the consensus was that BVS was "ok" do you think JL would have been a hit?

Unless it was getting Black Panther/Wonder Woman type reviews, I do. I also think that you need to have people care about the characters before you do a culmination film like JL. People didn’t care about these characters except for maybe Wonder Woman coming off of her film. If BvS was a hit, people would’ve lined up for the thing. No one cared about the new characters that were introduced via email in the last film. It was just one big recipe for disaster.

Did the 27% on rotten tomatoes stop people from seeing BvS opening weekend and then the big 2nd week drop off? Possibly. I can say that from everyone I know who saw it did not like it. I have a lot of young relatives who are obsessed with the avengers and I offered to take them to see BvS and they said “my parents won’t let me watch that.” A year later I ask the same relatives if they wanna see JL and they thought it looked lame. To me, that means WB just needed to go back to the drawing board. Hopefully Aquaman and Shazam are the start of that.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I’ll say this for JL though

I walked out of the theater having had a fun time, Warts and all.

 

[Greens]

I walked out embarrassed.

 

[markjoedelonge]

I’ll say this for JL though

I walked out of the theater having had a fun time, Warts and all.

Haha same. I pushed all the BTS drama out of my head and actually enjoyed the movie for what it was.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

WB needs to find that happy medium with these movies

WW seemed to do a good job with that, I just hope they continue to bring in the right talent for these characters and give that talent breathing room, as Patty Jenkins had.

 

[idiot09]

There's no hook. There's no gimmick.
Has none of the inherent must-see appeal of the past 4 movies.

This point isnt made enough.