Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - Part 16

[flickchick85]

I'd say neutral. It certainly didn't make the film look worse or less appealing than it ultimately was. But they didn't trick me into thinking it was a winner, either. Neither did BvS's for that matter.

 

[misslane38]

I'd say neutral. It certainly didn't make the film look worse or less appealing than it ultimately was. But they didn't trick me into thinking it was a winner, either. Neither did BvS's for that matter.

I think it was negative, because even if it couldn't have made the film look more appealing than it was, there wasn't enough of it to increase awareness, especially not of aspects that might have gotten people more excited like Superman. A main complaint of mine, for example, was just missing out on talk show appearances and other things that one might expect simply as a way to endear people to the cast even if the film itself was lackluster.

Added to that was that a lot of the interviews in junkets and in print (magazines, etc.) focused on the reshoots and the mistakes of the past and, to me, the marketing was doomed to do more harm than good. Then, once people saw the real thing and saw that even the few things that did seem appealing in the trailers weren't even in it, it made it worse. The marketing may not have been able to promise much, but it couldn't even make good on the few things it did seem to promise.

 

[flickchick85]

I do think being wishy-washy about Henry's inclusion was a negative. If you're gonna have him there for the press junkets, you might as well send him out to the talk shows.

 

[GreenKToo]

The ow numbers JL had says no amount of marketing would have saved it.
They flat out screwed up with JL.
They Cut out half ( or even more? ) of this film.
They hired whedon and rushed the reshoots instead of waiting 6 months or longer to get things right.
I don't blame whedon or Snyder, this is all on WB.

 

[misslane38]

The ow numbers JL had says no amount of marketing would have saved it.

I don't think so either. I want to clarify, though, that originally the discussion of this topic focused on claim that DC fans were pleased with the marketing and only started blaming it after the fact. I do think that the marketing could have been better, but I don't think it would have made up for the film itself being poor and the mess of its production, which itself affected the marketing.

In addition, not only do I believe that there was significant criticism of the marketing in the run up to the film's release, but I also believe that some of the restraint in criticizing it was because some assumed they were holding back on purpose, but the film would be okay. It wasn't.

 

[Limonade]

I don't think so either. I want to clarify, though, that originally the discussion of this topic focused on claim that DC fans were pleased with the marketing and only started blaming it after the fact. I do think that the marketing could have been better, but I don't think it would have made up for the film itself being poor and the mess of its production, which itself affected the marketing.

In addition, not only do I believe that there was significant criticism of the marketing in the fun up to the film's release, but I also believe that some of the restraint in criticizing it was because some assumed they were holding back on purpose, but the film would be okay. It wasn't.

I believe this view as well.

 

[GreenKToo]

I don't think so either. I want to clarify, though, that originally the discussion of this topic focused on claim that DC fans were pleased with the marketing and only started blaming it after the fact. I do think that the marketing could have been better, but I don't think it would have made up for the film itself being poor and the mess of its production, which itself affected the marketing.

In addition, not only do I believe that there was significant criticism of the marketing in the run up to the film's release, but I also believe that some of the restraint in criticizing it was because some assumed they were holding back on purpose, but the film would be okay. It wasn't.

I agree. I think the marketing was just ok, not great, but not terrible.

The marketing could have been better, but, even if it had of been the best thing since sliced bread JL still wouldn't have made but a few million more imo.
I firmly believe WB knew it wasn't going to be the smash hit they originally hoped it would be, thus the ho hum and misleading marketing.

Not showing superman when everyone and their brother knew he was gonna be in it was mistake #1, showing things in the trailers that wasn't even in the film was mistake #2.

In this day of instant reviews online, fb, Twitter etc, people know whether or not to see a film instantly.

 

[kguillou]

Lets be fair though, the marketing people had their hands tied a little. You cant spoil Superman's revival in the trailers. That was what the whole film was built around.

I think that what they maybe could have done was show bits of the Heroes Park fight where Superman is fighting the League and something is clearly wrong with him. They may have been able to use that to hype the movie. "Superman is back...or is he?" Could've been the hook.

 

[DerekLake]

Lets be fair though, the marketing people had their hands tied a little. You cant spoil Superman's revival in the trailers. That was what the whole film was built around.

I think that what they maybe could have done was show bits of the Heroes Park fight where Superman is fighting the League and something is clearly wrong with him. They may have been able to use that to hype the movie. "Superman is back...or is he?" Could've been the hook.

But marketing also can’t show what doesn’t exist. Even if they had shown the Superman stuff, none of it would have been engaging enough to get people excited. And showing Superman fighting the League might have backfired (let’s face it; after BvS, relatively few would find that to be an interesting idea).

But perhaps ultimately, I think the issue is that this did not feel like the sort of team-up film that many were expecting, and in some way not even like a Justice League film. There was no way the marketing could make up for that.

 

[kguillou]

I will say one thing, visually this was not the Avengers. It definitely had a darker color scheme and cinematography which I think its where the "ugly" and "muddy" conplainys came from. I dont know if Zack intended to keep the third act looking the way it looked in trailer 1 which the dark nighttime setting but it was def a much darker, visually looking movie and that probably didnt appeal to people very much.

I dug it though.

 

[Limonade]

Lets be fair though, the marketing people had their hands tied a little. You cant spoil Superman's revival in the trailers. That was what the whole film was built around.

I think that what they maybe could have done was show bits of the Heroes Park fight where Superman is fighting the League and something is clearly wrong with him. They may have been able to use that to hype the movie. "Superman is back...or is he?" Could've been the hook.

But they did went that route with the last JL trailer being a portion of it being dedicated to Clark in the cornfields with Lois.

I see it also as being a case that the tone and story elements were being changed during the marketing.

They only knew that at the very least 5 out of the 6 JL members were there. Just how much of it Superman was going to be shown was still left up in the editor's room.

And I don't even know how much of it was still being worked on with so little time left until release.

 

[idiot09]

I will say one thing, visually this was not the Avengers. It definitely had a darker color scheme and cinematography which I think its where the "ugly" and "muddy" conplainys came from. I dont know if Zack intended to keep the third act looking the way it looked in trailer 1 which the dark nighttime setting but it was def a much darker, visually looking movie and that probably didnt appeal to people very much.

I dug it though.

The visual look(blue sky and all) looked so much better then the red and eventual orange of the movie...with all the fires and explosions the contrast was there, and it looked much cleaner as well.

 

[GothamBat]

I would have preferred an intermediate between night time and having everything drenched in cranberry juice. Something along the lines of that giant battle scene flashback. It wasn't night time, more like dusk or dawn and the reds and yellows came from the lava, the explosions and combustion in general. The red in the final battle came from that weird cgi mist. It really weighed on the credibility of the whole thing to have it completely drenched in that unnatural looking color, which came from an unnatural source.

 

[Longshot777]

https://youtu.be/oWlC7YARdOw

If WB marketed it like this, I'll bet you it will have above $100 million on opening weekend

 

[kguillou]

https://youtu.be/oWlC7YARdOw

If WB marketed it like this, I'll bet you it will have above $100 million on opening weekend

Whoa I hadnt seen that before, that was excellently done.

 

[Aurakles]

Heh, as good as it is, that fan trailer is primarily made up of shots that are not in JL theatrical cut.

 

[Tra-El]

Adeel was always the real deal and shows how important editing, score and story is. Every one of his trailers tell a story that is usually heartwarming and full of character. He has that gift to edit what is already provided to tell his own story. His channel has always been one of my favorites and we use to talk a lot until life went into overdrive lol. I'm going to have to get a hold of him soon.

 

[DerekLake]

https://youtu.be/oWlC7YARdOw

If WB marketed it like this, I'll bet you it will have above $100 million on opening weekend

Eh, this trailer most certainly would not have brought in more. The problem isn’t with the marketing. The problem is that WB gutted whatever substance the original film had because they didn’t like it (for whatever reason), and that lack of substance is reflected in the marketing. Their marketing team cannot show what isn’t there. People are absolutely correct to describe the film as soulless. It has heart and is enjoyable, certainly, but only at the surface level, and I think the audience picked up on this. The fact that Adeel’s trailer mostly relies on music and dialogue from Man of Steel is just additional indication that this is the case.

 

[The Guard]

Why anyone would think that marketing it as BATMAN V SUPERMAN 2: JUSTICE LEAGUE would do the trick...

 

[Tra-El]

Why anyone would think that marketing it as BATMAN V SUPERMAN 2: JUSTICE LEAGUE would do the trick...

The Kimmel Trailer #2 was so awfully bad for the marketing that it basically ruined the entire campaign, which was great for BvS at one point. The hype really was massive but that trailer sunk it. They showed Batman fighting Superman, Doomsday, Wonder Woman and the Trinity together. It was all over the place. They succumbed the notion of Batman and Superman fighting with "But wait! Look! They are going to team up! We promise! Please believe us!"

They should have stuck with the tone of Trailer #1 and #3 and left Wonder Woman, Doomsday and the Trinity shot for the movie.

 

[jfurioso]

If you go by all the reports none of the cast and crew were happy with happened to Justice League. They were happy with the movie they filmed before all the interference. Just like how they were happy with Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice UC and not the TC. It just goes to show you how they truly loved and believed in the direction the series was going and how upset they were when it messed with.

There was Cyborg ripping his tshirt on stage and revealing a message of support for Zack. I think that was quite telling.

 

[jfurioso]

I'll still take the guy from Kansas who just does what he feels is right and has a strong enough bond with those he loves + follows even his social justice to wherever it may lead. That guy is meek on a personal level & imposing at other times, but that JL caricature I saw was somebody else.

I think the MOS Superman was much more headstrong and less prone to moping than the version delivered by BvS. I don't know if it was Terrio not getting Superman that much and going somewhat too far into the more tragedy-like direction, but I think the Superman who faced and won to his side the military, who faced and beat Zod, and who walked away angry from the trucker and took it out on a thing to not harm a person is not quite the Superman who let the world of public opinion beat him down that much in BvS. Sure, an argument can be made that he had been under the radar all his life and was not used to public attention but I rather think the MOS Superman would have been less reactive. That the TC cut his scenes of investigating the Africa thing did not help. Sure, he wandered the world as a nobody in MOS but he was actively searching for answers, while in BvS there was too much the effect that people being mean and not understanding was becoming too much for him, even if that was not what they meant in the general picture.

 

[jfurioso]

In other words, doing good for the world gives not only Clark's differences, his powers, meaning, but it gives his whole existence meaning. Speaking to Jor-El, as Jonathan predicted, only clarified the specific dreams and goals his biological parents had, but from an early age Clark was taught, as many Christians and likely people of other faiths are also taught, that whatever god they pray to created them with a purpose. Clark begins to want to seek his purpose as a teenager: "I'm tired of safe. I just want to do something useful with my life."

I highly recommend reading Mark Waid's essay "The Real Truth about Superman: And the Rest of Us Too" because it aligns almost perfectly with what I and the films have expressed about Superman's motivations. Here's an example. After years of loving and working on the character, Waid writes that "the one question I could not answer [was] why does [Superman] do what he does?" The essay follows several of his trains of thought, but he ultimately concludes "When [Superman] lives as who he really is, in full authenticity to his nature and gifts, and then brings his distinctive strengths into the service of others, he takes his rightful place in the larger community, in which he now genuinely belongs and can feel fulfilled. [...] In helping others, Superman helps himself. In helping himself, he helps others." He adds, "Kal-El knows instinctively that it is only when he puts his gifts to use that he truly feels alive and engaged."

I rather like much better the simpler take you mentioned first that Waid's. While I agree that a sense of purpose and belonging are very important aspects, the way Waid phrases it sounds too much like ethical selfishness and that does dull the effect for me. It actually makes me doubt a bit about Waid's whole value system to hear him need to work so hard to understand altruism. I dunno. It seems like trying/wanting to over-complicate the notion that Superman is a good person who wants to do good things. I think MOS delivered that very well.

 

[jfurioso]

I think it was negative, because even if it couldn't have made the film look more appealing than it was, there wasn't enough of it to increase awareness, especially not of aspects that might have gotten people more excited like Superman. A main complaint of mine, for example, was just missing out on talk show appearances and other things that one might expect simply as a way to endear people to the cast even if the film itself was lackluster.

Added to that was that a lot of the interviews in junkets and in print (magazines, etc.) focused on the reshoots and the mistakes of the past and, to me, the marketing was doomed to do more harm than good. Then, once people saw the real thing and saw that even the few things that did seem appealing in the trailers weren't even in it, it made it worse. The marketing may not have been able to promise much, but it couldn't even make good on the few things it did seem to promise.

I agree completely. I looked regularly for places where I could see Gal, Ben and Henry together promoting the film, because I rather liked the gathered cast in media appearances for BvS, and was puzzled at the apparent dearth of such for JL.

I think the basic thrust could have been the whole YOU CANNOT SAVE THE WORLD ALONE, with the whole gathering of heroes, and how you also needed such gathering to bring back the best and brightest thought lost, too. Or something like that. I probably sounded pretty Goyer-ish there.

 

[Herolee10]

A film that keeps on giving long after its original release. I never noticed on how Superman's CGI Cape wasn't even attached properly for this shot.