Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - Part 4

[Lily Adler]

WB does not know what that means...

 

[Guts]

Is it alright if it's influenced by Singer?

 

[Patchwork Man]

Superman's main purpose is an ideology, so when that ideology is challenged, like it is in the DCEU, people are going to lose their minds. Instead of a Superman that is automatically presented to us like we all know and love him, Snyder is going the opposite direction and actually challenging that perspective and allowing the character to chop down some weeds and buzz-saw through logs until we get the things that we've been spoon fed time and time again with the character. Some hate that and that's their prerogative and right, but for me, it's kind of refreshing.

Well said.

The studio focused on NOT ONLY continuing to ride the coattails of the Donnerverse, but they spent a GOOD DEAL of time by going all in on Superman's interaction with his Super-family in Superman Returns and Lois Lane. They spent SO much time on those aspects that they even threw in a Super-kid AND a love triangle of ideals and morals. And guess what? It was one of THEE worst representations of Superman in media AND big screen representation alike. It had all the heroic montages and airplane rescues one Superman fan can dream of and it did ABSOLUTELY, positively NOTHING for the character moving forward. I fell asleep during the damn thing with all those added bonus's. If you would ask me, the DCEU Superman earned the right for all those montages and saves. When it does happen, it'll be something to cheer about, not to roll your eyes about.

It was Decaf Superman. It was The Superman Movie That Should Never Have Been. Or, Superman: Shanghaied By Cyclops. Singer pulled a George Lucas: he held up two signs for Routh, that alternately read "ACT LIVE REEVE" and "ACT MORE LIKE REEVE!" It was pathetic. The only thing we walked away with was the airplane rescue, and it was downhill from there. The film had some nice VFX, but a huge, er, chunk of the budget went to rendering a colossal green crystal that got a one-way ticket to the Asteroid Belt. A friend saw it before me and reviewed it with one line: "We've seen this movie before." I didn't believe him. Then I saw it.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Is it alright if it's influenced by Singer?

 

[Tra-El]

It's funny. Superman Returns definitely didn't move the character forward, but it was a critically solid foundation to build from.

Yeah. A 28 year; out-dated foundation. You know you're in trouble when you start off by asking the audience to completely forget two movies in the franchise..as bad as they were (III; IV). There was no foundation to build on at that point other than to add to an already nostalgic idea of the imagination.

and now has resulted in the Superman character getting the 'Hawkeye' treatment (perhaps much less). Hawkeye is, at least, likeable and developed.

Superman is now Hawkeye? GOOD GOD.

As a Superman fan, I don't even know how you can do a sequel to MOS

That's because it won't be a sequel to Man of Steel. It will be a Superman standalone movie that will follow what comes next in Superman's journey through this world. Justice League will likely end an arc for Superman while simultaneously building on another, so the events of another Superman movie will come what we will see in Justice League or another film involving Superman's ongoing arc.

debuted in a battle where 10000 Metropolis citizens died

We are still on this? This is also the same Metropolis community who resurrected a Superman monument to celebrate his efforts in what he gave to the city in battle. Besides, we saw in BvS that Metropolis is a rebuilding city and most of the destruction came only a few city blocks of the Metropolitan area. Things are moving on. Maybe we should, too.

Jimmy is dead

There has been numerous conversations about this where the "death of Jimmy" could EASILY be retconned if they ever so desire, most notoriously as a CIA agent where 99% of the audience didn't even see anyhow.

especially and we are stuck with the cornball Eisenberg Luthor

Maybe the "cornball" aspect of things comes from the multiple personalities of Lex Luthor in BvS? At the end of BvS, we saw no cornball antics from Lex in prison. It was anything but that. Once again, it's an initial arc we're going to have to be willing to see unfold in Justice League and future films. As far as LexCorp, who knows, we could see Lex be a VALUABLE asset to an organization such as 'Star Labs' or even our Government, which has already shown its inside corruption in BvS with Lex as the puppet master. Lex is usually the smartest guy in the room and has manipulated before so he's certainly capable of doing it again.

Reporter Clark Kent is dead too. How could they bring him back? He had an open casket funeral.

Yes, but it was presumably known that most of the people in Smallville knew that Clark had special abilities and the same inkling was presumed that some of the Daily Planet staff knew that Clark was Superman as well, going back to the early Man of Steel days. It was also a small Funeral so if they want to use reporter Clark Kent or another disguise for Kal, there's ways around it, especially if they're going to start playing by the rules of the DC Multiverse and what that potential could bring.

I don't think ZS is a Superman fan, beyond the surface level aesthetics of the character.

It's the studio's grand master plan to sabotage the Superman character over and over again until his ultimate demise! Sorry, that's just TOO outrageous for me.

 

[Lily Adler]

Is it alright if it's influenced by Singer?

He did give us X-Men, X2, and DoFP. What could go-

Spoiler

Nevermind.

 

[Patchwork Man]

^ Truth.

 

[Tra-El]

It was Decaf Superman.

No doubt! But, atleast decaf coffee can TASTE good. Superman Returns was the coffee that sat in the lunch room all weekend, only noticing it on the next Friday thinking it's a new pot and as you take a sip, you blow it out BOTH of your blowholes at the same time from the sheer shock of the unsuspecting taste of a#$. That is Superman Returns in a nutshell.

Superman: Shanghaied By Cyclops.

Hah!t:

Singer pulled a George Lucas: he held up two signs for Routh, that alternately read "ACT LIVE REEVE" and "ACT MORE LIKE REEVE!" It was pathetic.

And I think the third card read "Seriously, you're f*^$ed" lol.

..but a huge, er, chunk of the budget went to rendering a colossal green crystal that got a one-way ticket to the Asteroid Belt.

That happened, huh? I didn't make it that far!

 

[Patchwork Man]

No doubt! But, atleast decaf coffee can TASTE good. Superman Returns was the coffee that sat in the lunch room all weekend, only noticing it on the next Friday thinking it's a new pot and as you take a sip, you blow it out BOTH of your blowholes at the same time from the sheer shock of the unsuspecting taste of a#$. That is Superman Returns in a nutshell.

Bonus badness: it was old room-temp java in a styro cup somebody left there, and you accidentally grabbed it and allowed some of that filth to splash your gums!! URRGGH!!

And I think the third card read "Seriously, you're f*^$ed" lol.

Bwahahahahaha!! That poor guy. At least he had a funny cameo in Zack & Miri Make A Porno. t:

 

[metaphysician]

Well said.



It was Decaf Superman. It was The Superman Movie That Should Never Have Been. Or, Superman: Shanghaied By Cyclops. Singer pulled a George Lucas: he held up two signs for Routh, that alternately read "ACT LIVE REEVE" and "ACT MORE LIKE REEVE!" It was pathetic. The only thing we walked away with was the airplane rescue, and it was downhill from there. The film had some nice VFX, but a huge, er, chunk of the budget went to rendering a colossal green crystal that got a one-way ticket to the Asteroid Belt. A friend saw it before me and reviewed it with one line: "We've seen this movie before." I didn't believe him. Then I saw it.

Don't forget the budget spent on an opening scene visiting the remains of Krypton, which got entirely cut from the movie.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

You know. SR isn't that bad. Where it fails is that it's bland and boring.

My ideal Superman movie would have the saves and feats of Superman Returns, mixed in with the fights from Man of Steel. Throw in a little romance from Superman: The Movie and the characterization and attitude of Superman: The Animated Series.

That right there would hit all the right notes.

 

[idiot09]

You know. SR isn't that bad. Where it fails is that it's bland and boring.

My ideal Superman movie would have the saves and feats of Superman Returns, mixed in with the fights from Man of Steel. Throw in a little romance from Superman: The Movie and the characterization and attitude of Superman: The Animated Series.

That right there would hit all the right notes.

Agreed. I just found SR... boring. I mean one thing I find very unforgiving is when these movies dont try you know, where you dont see anything new, and that was the case for SR.

But what you described sounds pretty awesome. MOS was a such a great superman movie for me. It was a dream come true.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Agreed. I just found SR... boring. I mean one thing I find very unforgiving is when these movies dont try you know, where you dont see anything new, and that was the case for SR.

That's the key isn't it. Balancing old with new. Part of the reason why a lot of people don't like Snyder's/Cavill's version is because they don't recognize a lot of it. I don't necessarily agree, but then again I applaud them [Snyder and Cavill] for being bold and going new places.

That said if you want something successful you take the new, a lot of it in fact, but introduce it to tried and true concepts.

SR failed because they emphasized the old. The DCEU would be recieved better if it hearkened back to the Donner films a little more.

This attitude is what is spearheading DC publishing's success with Rebirth.

Marvel publishing is doing the opposite by either regurgitating old concepts (Civil War II) or going in the complete opposite direction and taking a bunch of newbs who's ink barely dried and replacing old heroes with them (Iron Heart or whatever her name is).

The sales and reviews tell the rest of the story.

So yeah, TL;DR, I'm looking forward to when Synder starts introducing age old concepts to his "new" Superman.

 

[idiot09]

This attitude is what is spearheading DC publishing's success with Rebirth.

Nail on the ****ing head, sir. And now with Geoff Johns aboard, I would be surprised if Superman is evolving into the rebirth Superman, kind of older, mature level-headed but still badass and loving, hero. If thats the case, I'm in!

 

[Tra-El]

What I loved about Man of Steel so much was that it was the first time possibly ever that I felt a comic book presence with the character, especially the new age influences within' those context's. The Donnerverse felt like a magical; psychedelic world with complimenting characters that sometimes acted as lovable caricatures. They were definitely a sign of the times and Superman: The Movie holds up but Man of Steel was the first time I got that modern age comic book thrill.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Yeah, STM and Donner and all that stuff was Silver Age. It was great. Still is. But we're way past the Bronze Age and we're just now getting a modernized version of Superman. But not only that Snyder is taking Superman and framing it in our world right now instead of following comic trends. Sure a lot of his influence is from the Byrne era, but that's mostly aesthetics and outlines based on those story arcs.

 

[Tra-El]

Man of Steel reminded me MOST of the recent Earth: One books, especially the first volume. The rest, Snyder took comic book storylines and applied them accordingly to his own universe that fits his story. I think that's what Zack means when he says how all of this stuff is going to be grounded; modern re-tellings, but also familiar all in one breath.

 

[Polux]

You guys making me wanna watch MoS and BvS again...

Polux

 

[idiot09]

Man of Steel reminded me MOST of the recent Earth: One books, especially the first volume. The rest, Snyder took comic book storylines and applied them accordingly to his own universe that fits his story. I think that's what Zack means when he says how all of this stuff is going to be grounded; modern re-tellings, but also familiar all in one breath.

YES YES YES. When I read Superman: Earth One(After watching MOS) I was like, this is exactly the Superman we got in MOS. I mean the stories are practically the same, and so are the characterizations. Even the redhead/brunette Lois Lane ffs. Its been a long time since I read John Byrne's Superman, but I definitely see influences from that as well, birthright too.

I really felt for Zack, because the amount of flak he got, when he was like "I didnt change Superman, if you see the comics, I didnt change him". And I was like yeah thats right, because the comics I have read Superman is very close to the one we are getting right now. The problem however is there are many incarnations, and there is no "one right" characterization, so there's that inconsistency.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Despite massive flaws and the fact that I'll never get a good or coherent follow up to Supes arc in the film, I still like Man of Steel.

 

[Legendver2]

YES YES YES. When I read Superman: Earth One(After watching MOS) I was like, this is exactly the Superman we got in MOS. I mean the stories are practically the same, and so are the characterizations. Even the redhead/brunette Lois Lane ffs. Its been a long time since I read John Byrne's Superman, but I definitely see influences from that as well, birthright too.

I really felt for Zack, because the amount of flak he got, when he was like "I didnt change Superman, if you see the comics, I didnt change him". And I was like yeah thats right, because the comics I have read Superman is very close to the one we are getting right now. The problem however is there are many incarnations, and there is no "one right" characterization, so there's that inconsistency.

The problem is that most of the critics probably never read a single modern day Superman comic, so they only compare it to the SIlver Age and Donner stuff as their sole basis of what the character is like 2-3 decades ago.

 

[idiot09]

And thats fine, you can have your favourites and stuff, but thats no reason to use that to beat up another interpretation of the character and label it as "wrong". Thats what I take an issue with.

 

[Legendver2]

Despite massive flaws and the fact that I'll never get a good or coherent follow up to Supes arc in the film, I still like Man of Steel.

Well Snyder is most likely taking a backseat after JL, so there's hope my friend for another director who's better suited to tell a Superman story.

 

[Legendver2]

And thats fine, you can have your favourites and stuff, but thats no reason to use that to beat up another interpretation of the character and label it as "wrong". Thats what I take an issue with.

Well you know with most critics of any kind. Any opinion that doesn't agree with their own is typically "wrong"

 

[Tra-El]

Despite massive flaws and the fact that I'll never get a good or coherent follow up to Supes arc in the film, I still like Man of Steel.

I recently re-watched Man of Steel not too long ago, free of any influences or notions. Man of Steel is a film I happen to like more the more times I watch it, but the third act, especially form the neck snap to the "Look, I'm here to help" speech is GLARING...like florescent; roadwork GLARING. Those sudden cuts were certainly one of the films major inconsistencies and downfalls if one had to choose.