I'm okay with Bats forming the JL....because guess what? He's got too much of an attitude to be an effective leader, and he won't be able to keep them together. THAT will be Supes' role, and it's the more important one.
With Batman forming the league, precious screentime will need to be devoted to Flash, Cyrborg and Aquaman....Superman's not showing up until the 3rd act, is he?
Of course he didn't and maybe it is a little hope but he talks about Superman been there basically means the league formation is easy. The fact Terrio has said MOS, BvS and JL are a trilogy to me says Superman is the core of that trilogy.
Your latter comment is just bizarre and is also a leap.
Really? You didn't get the same impression after reading those paragraph? I think that SW7 comparison and the hint about what he would become when he returned were pretty telling.
Really? You didn't get the same impression after reading those paragraph? I think that SW7 comparison and the hint about what he would become when he returned were pretty telling.
In JL2, yes. But we're talking about JL1 here. If it's about forming the league and trying to bring Supes back then he wouldn't even be a league member let alone being the core of the story.
Besides, he wasn't even the core of the movie featuring the Death of Superman adaptation.
I'm okay with Bats forming the JL....because guess what? He's got too much of an attitude to be an effective leader, and he won't be able to keep them together. THAT will be Supes' role, and it's the more important one.
With Batman forming the league, precious screentime will need to be devoted to Flash, Cyrborg and Aquaman....Superman's not showing up until the 3rd act, is he?
I think that after the mixed reception to MOS, Snyder and WB are ashamed of Superman. They are instead devoted to pushing Batman and the new characters. I think Snyder is self-aware that he doesn't know how to do Superman properly. He admitted that during the Watchmen press junket in 2009, and it looks like he hasn't learned anything since. WB seems just as clueless.
Doing the 'bat voice' on the Graham Norton show, Henry speculates on Bruce's real motivation
The full episode is on YouTube - I can't link to it as its 'blocked in my country' (UK, obviously because we have iPlayer) - but it's definitely worth a watch if you can see it.
Not who you asked, and cross posted to the Amy thread (should there maybe be a Clois thread? Is that allowed?) but here's one from a TV spot I apparently completely missed!
I shamelessly wept in the cinema - quietly, so as not to bother anyone - then openly sobbed in the car, much to the amusement of my friend. I was listening to WW's theme on the soundtrack yesterday and had to run across the room to stop it moving on to 'This Is My World' in order to avoid another sobfest.
Sorry for the jumping back and forth in the quotes, but reading this thread a couple times and jumping back and forth does that. If you read this I appreciate your patience and would love any feedback to calm my nerves a bit.
First off, I enjoyed this movie. I didnt love it, as much as I wanted to, but the critics scores are a joke. Personal score is a 7/10. I remember the interviews Snyder gave before MOS came out and thinking, ok he gets it, he gets Supes position in the world, I had faith that h would do it justice. Then MOS came out and again, liked it, didnt love it. I got spoiled on him killing Zod and I didnt like it frankly, and afterwards with all the uproar Snyder said something along the lines of well his no killing code cant just be there, it has to exist for a reason. And coupled with Cavill (who is amazing as Supes, second only to you know who) in that scene where he yells and you can see the emotions hitting him of what he did, I'm like OK I get it, it makes sense. And then
15 minutes into this one he rams a guy through two walls. Thats when I knew Snyder didn't get the character. Even in a world where Batman does what he does here, SUPERMAN would not needlessly kill a human being. He clearly got there before he pulled the trigger, putting his hand over the muzzle wouldnt have been enough? The only reason to do what he did was if you thought it'd be cool to have Superman ram a dude through walls. Thats it. And thats Snyder.
It just seems Snyder is more interested in Superman the concept than Superman the character.... I'm concerned he will continue to mess up Superman by playing around with the concept.
I think he appreciates Superman, but the second he was able to get his hands on Batman he lost any interest in developing Supes on his own and strictly saw it as how he could use Supes to develop batman. From the end of MOS to this one Supermans growth is incredibly slow, why? Because Batmans development demands it. Why doesnt he speak in Congress, go on sabbatical after the bomb, because Bats needs to keep his reason so they can fight.
He's saying with Superman there the league forms to easily/quickly, without him it's a struggle for Batman to find all these guys. JL will have Batman assembling the team but it will also have Superman lead them toward the Sun. Given Terrio said MOS, BvS and JLP1 are a trilogy it's obvious he will be back fully in the film at a certain point to inspire the team.
Because one of the big things I wanted to make sure of was that as we went into Justice League, Bruce Wayne was the one who was gathering the Justice League. I thought it was really important to have Bruce Wayne be the samurai who goes and finds the other samurai, that to me was important. And with Superman around its kinda hard, because Supermans Superman so its kinda hard for Bruce to be like, Yeah I wanna put a Justice League together. Its like, Okay, but maybe Superman should be doing that. Youre just a guy. Youre a cool guy, dont get me wrong, but youre just a guy."
and another, from IGN
"Pretty early on I had this idea that I wanted [Superman's death] to happen. I really felt like if we were going to move forward with the Justice League, that Batman needed to put it together, and you couldn't have this... I mean Superman is Superman," Snyder said. "If he's around, he's going to be put in charge because he's Superman. And so I really felt we need to - in a cool way - create a mechanism that could get him out of the way. And I didn't want to [rolls eyes] freeze him on ice and shoot him into space. I thought that was boring [laughs]."
Its especially clear in the IGN video that Snyder wants Batman leading the JL. Why is it important for Batman to round them up? It actually makes less sense for him to do it, who the hell is he to them? But it'd be cool for Batman fan Zack Snyder. So eh, lets kill off Superman, lets take the Death of Superman which shouldve been its own movie, its own event, and cram it into the last twenty minutes of this movie to get Superman out of the way so Bats can lead the Justice League. IMO, the biggest event in Supermans history has been wasted just so Zack can put Bats front and center OF ANOTHER MOVIE.
And the fact of the matter is, Snyder keeps confirming and burying himself further in his own ******* whenever he brings up on how he plans on using Superman.
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Snyder just confirm that Superman isn't part of the JL lineup?
How are people not reacting badly about it? Am I the only one the freaking cares?
I'm right there with you, not just because of the above,
but I just dont see how they bring Clark Kent, Daily Planet reporter who was confirmed dead in the paper and had an open casket funeral TO COME BACK FROM THE DEAD. Superman can, he's a damn alien, but how does a farm boy from Kansas pull that off, in a grounded and realistic universe? My biggest fear is actually that he has effectively killed off Clark.
Admittedly I lack the imagination to be a writer, but I'm coming up empty on how this could be pulled off.
Given Superman's "soldiers" double teamed Batman with the parademons, it's probably fair to say Superman is being controlled by Darkseid. The only other scenario is that he's knowingly joined forces with him which wouldn't fly with the ending of BvS at all.
At the moment I fear Snyders comments "who knows what hell come back as" and just the restrictions of time is pointing to one option for the villian in JL - Bizzaro.
Think of it, Batman is going to go around looking for and recruiting the JL, while they search for a way to bring back Supes, while building and presenting a heavy for them to have to fight in JL and also build toward Darkside in JL2? The recruiting, plus supermans return, plus JL villain #1 plus build up to darkside sounds like another mess of a movie. Unless the return of Superman and the JL1 villain are one and the same, Bizzaro. And if the good superman is willing to kill, lord what would Snyder have Bizzaro do?
Unless Darkside is the heavy for JL, but then how much could they build him and and then have it all wrapped by the end of the flick? Terrio has basically said it wraps the trilogy, JL1 and JL2 dont seem to be one flick with two parts or Terrio wouldve written both.
I'm happy the movie is making money in spite of the ridiculous critic reviews, and as much as I enjoyed the flick (I'm going to see it again tonight) I just have no faith in Zacks future plans for Clark/Superman and the DCCU.
I'm right there with you, not just because of the above, but I just dont see how they bring Clark Kent, Daily Planet reporter who was confirmed dead in the paper and had an open casket funeral TO COME BACK FROM THE DEAD. Superman can, he's a damn alien, but how does a farm boy from Kansas pull that off, in a grounded and realistic universe? My biggest fear is actually that he has effectively killed off Clark. Admittedly I lack the imagination to be a writer, but I'm coming up empty on how this could be pulled off
TBH I hadn't thought about that... that is pretty upsetting. I really don't know why some of the things that happened in this movie were not devestating to me...
I think I had just so given up on Snyder's version of Superman that instead of going in thinking it would be a diamond and finding it a turd, I went in thinking it would be a turd and spotted some diamonds in it.
Like, if I still had hope that we might get a good Superman film after this, i'd probably be more upset [BLACKOUT]they'd killed off Clark[/BLACKOUT]... but as it is, I don't. And i'm just glad I was able to enjoy the film as much as I did, by viewing it as an elseworlds tale.
TBH I hadn't thought about that... that is pretty upsetting. I really don't know why some of the things that happened in this movie were not devestating to me...
I think I had just so given up on Snyder's version of Superman that instead of going in thinking it would be a diamond and finding it a turd, I went in thinking it would be a turd and spotted some diamonds in it.
Like, if I still had hope that we might get a good Superman film after this, i'd probably be more upset they'd killed off Clark... but as it is, I don't. And i'm just glad I was able to enjoy the film as much as I did.
yeah my 7/10 score is already down from an eight and its only been two days of thinking on things like this. I have hope in Cavills comments, to a certain extent he's been as honest as possible with the fans as to how Supes is portrayed in these movies. I have some faith in his statement that Superman will be the one the world knows and loves come JL, but for me that includes Clark.
It's not a serious suggestion, just a joke about how Superman gets his ass kicked in the film.
But don't tell me I don't get Superman, you're the one championing a film in which Superman acts un-Superman like, says things Superman would never say, and general behaves as a lousy Superhero.
Anyone who wants to debate with me whether or not this is Superman as he should be. From now on rather than listening to feeble excuses I'll simple refer you back to the man himself Henry Cavill - "This is not the Superman we all know and love", in fact I might make it my signature.
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