How do you feel about the Relaunch?

[yenaled]

Naw, you just forgot how to have an opinion... Sorry...

You just quoted my opinion.

 

[KrypJonian]

You just quoted my opinion.

Well, you started with your?... (I'm kind of confused how anyone can have a strong opinion at the moment, it's not even had any official statement from DC.)

Then something sounded good... (Morrison's Superman)

The you said ("A reboot? I don't want that, it's a stupid idea but DC has been vapid and stale for going on ten years now so maybe they need it. ")

Your opinion is kinda all over the place in one post...

 

[yenaled]

Do I now need footnotes on everypost...

I don't understand how anyone can feel "very positive or very negative" without more substantial information - especially the September Solicits.

I retain the right to feel positive about Morrison on Superman but with the qualifier that this may just drive me away from following the larger DCU ongoing story as I've been feeling more and more ostracised since IC and this may just be the breaker.

 

[KrypJonian]

Do I now need footnotes on everypost...

I don't understand how anyone can feel "very positive or very negative" without more substantial information - especially the September Solicits.

I retain the right to feel positive about Morrison on Superman but with the qualifier that this may just drive me away from following the larger DCU ongoing story as I've been feeling more and more ostracised since IC and this may just be the breaker.

You have the right to feel however you want... But the moment you start contradicting yourself in the same post, you may be called on it...

I agree, let's see what is in store.

Guess what? I feel positive about the reboot. And I am also stoked for Morrison's Superman...

But I'm not going to spend the rest of my post bashing the concept...

 

[KrypJonian]

I don't understand how anyone can feel "very positive or very negative" without more substantial information - especially the September Solicits.

Because no fan, yourself included, is sitting at home thinking to themselves "Hmm... i wonder what comics are going to be like in 3 months..."

Of course, people are making judgements and predictions. and voicing their opinions and reactions...

You already voiced your predictive disappointment in DC...

 

[Nightwing Z]

Stop arguing guys. We should really focus on the current crisis.

 

[Mystirious]

Wow, so glad to have you with us... Thank you so much!

Batwoman, and that's it, Really...

All the other comics i like and buy are getting cancelled or rebooted

So yeah at the moment the Batwoman ongoing is the only series from dc after flashpoint that i am interested in. She's the best character in comics in my opinion right now and the only one i actually care about

Hopefully some of the other comics will look good. I want their to be lots of comic books I like and want to buy

 

[Motown Marvel]

I've known you on here for years and I hate to call you out, but I have to ask... How?

Much as I hate to admit it, Superman is totally broken. Growing up in the late 80's and 90's, I LOVED Superman, he's always been my favorite, no questions asked. Crisis was awesome for me. It made everything new and fresh and accessible.

I stuck with him through the years. I was actually dying on a hospital bed when my buddy brought me a copy of Superman #123 (Electro Supes, after I'd been away for a while, being sick and all)... And as much as I hated the new direction, I was still interested. It was still Superman... Whether or not I wanted something else...

After many years of faithful reading, eventually I got Superman. Certain creators got it (Johns, Donner, Frank) and really made it happen for me with building more of a deep rich history (with the Donnerverse, but I was okay with that after all the failed Zod reboots...) But then they went off in a direction that wasn't friendly to anyone that hadn't been reading for the previous year...

So it seems to me that good, high profile creators can only do so much, but once they're gone, we're screwed...

What can they do with the existing universe to make it better than a reboot?

ha, theres nothing wrong with "calling me out"

but okay, superman for example: i dont think superman is completely broken. we just got a solid origin in "secret origins", thats a real good first step.

so DC wants to bring in new superman readers? okay. they feel the problem is potential customers are afraid of the history? okay.

DC launches a high profile superman story arc produced by top quality creators (i.e. grant morrison)...a story that is not bogged down in continuity (it doesnt contradict continuity, it works within it, but it doesnt rely on it). in the back of each issue is a couple pages detailing important events in superman's history. so the reader gets to enjoy an awesome superman story arc that isnt bogged in continuity, but also by time they're done they will have a solid background on superman's history that will allow them to continue reading beyond this arc.

this is something they can do simultaneously for each character/book. trust in the characters. and get the best talent available for each character. promote it as a jumping on point just like they are right now, with same day digital releases for $2.00. that way, you get new readers while not alienating your current readers.

 

[solidsnake86]

I think its a good idea, I'm a casual fan and the comics I do pick up are way to convoluted with stupid continuity. Glad they finally did something to Green Arrows costume, that one has been begging for a redesign. I prefer things to be simple so that they can get on with the story. Personally I could never get into all those crisis books and that superboy prime stuff was a little to much for me. All my opinion of course, I know it must suck for those fully invested in the characters and who like that stuff. Ultimately though, I think some posters (not on here) really blow things out of proportion because they'll be the first in line to pick up the new titles. I constantly see this thing about listening to the fans, but sometimes the fans dont know what they want, and if they did they would be writers.

 

[Kurosawa]

Well, you started with your?... (I'm kind of confused how anyone can have a strong opinion at the moment, it's not even had any official statement from DC.)

Then something sounded good... (Morrison's Superman)

The you said ("A reboot? I don't want that, it's a stupid idea but DC has been vapid and stale for going on ten years now so maybe they need it. ")

Your opinion is kinda all over the place in one post...

I think quite a few people share his feelings to be honest.

 

[KrypJonian]

ha, theres nothing wrong with "calling me out"

but okay, superman for example: i dont think superman is completely broken. we just got a solid origin in "secret origins", thats a real good first step.

so DC wants to bring in new superman readers? okay. they feel the problem is potential customers are afraid of the history? okay.

DC launches a high profile superman story arc produced by top quality creators (i.e. grant morrison)...a story that is not bogged down in continuity (it doesnt contradict continuity, it works within it, but it doesnt rely on it). in the back of each issue is a couple pages detailing important events in superman's history. so the reader gets to enjoy an awesome superman story arc that isnt bogged in continuity, but also by time they're done they will have a solid background on superman's history that will allow them to continue reading beyond this arc.

this is something they can do simultaneously for each character/book. trust in the characters. and get the best talent available for each character. promote it as a jumping on point just like they are right now, with same day digital releases for $2.00. that way, you get new readers while not alienating your current readers.

I see what you mean...

I guess the higher ups are over it... And for all we know they're gonna have to put 2 page history lessons in the backs of these books anyhow..

 

[Karelia]

Green Arrow's costume is fraggin' schweet!

 

[TruerToTheCore]

I don't really care enough about comics anymore, since my interest has extremely cooled down in the last years, similar to the mid-90s when I dropped all books for a few years. In general I have never been too much into that "continuity" thing, I rather care about good stories (I am probably too Bob Haney-nized). But let's face it, this whole reboot thing sounds dishonest and seems to be just another lame stunt which will not improve DC's situation in the mid- or long-term. And then I am not overly optimistic because behind the scenes it's still the same guys who mess things up since two decades (so kinda like the change from USSR to the RF). And don't worry, won't take enough time until they start to let some references to the old continuity slip in.

 

[Kurosawa]

I don't really care enough about comics anymore, since my interest has extremely cooled down in the last years, similar to the mid-90s when I dropped all books for a few years. In general I have never been too much into that "continuity" thing, I rather care about good stories (I am probably too Bob Haney-nized). But let's face it, this whole reboot thing sounds dishonest and seems to be just another lame stunt which will not improve DC's situation in the mid- or long-term. And then I am not overly optimistic because behind the scenes it's still the same guys who mess things up since two decades (so kinda like the change from USSR to the RF). And don't worry, won't take enough time until they start to let some references to the old continuity slip in.

Although I am obviously a Pre-Crisis fan, where they really messed up after COIE was by trying to keep some series going like nothing much happened while completely rebooting others. If this reboot was actually a real, bold, total restart, then I'd be more curious about it. But it's going to be half-assed as usual. I think Geoff Johns main problem is he starts stuff without a real plan for how it should work out and what should be done with the characters. He leaves enough plot lines unfinished and characters ignored that he could impress Chris Clairemont.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Well, it's obvious that the COIE wasn't really thought out at all

John Byrne

JB: One of the central points of my "back to the basics" approach to the Superman reboot was that he began his career as an adult -- so no Superboy. This, I knew, would have a rather profound effect on the Legion, whose history was tied directly to Superboy, and at several editorial meetings I brought up this point often, suggesting different ways in which it could be dealt with. (Several times I referenced a book I'd had as a kid called "Young Robin Hood". This told the adventures of Robin, Marion, Little John, et al when they were all around 10 years old, and long, long before they "actually" met. I suggested the Legion had formed based on legends of Superman's adventures as a boy -- adventures the Legion members would be surprised to discover had not actually happened.) I was told, basically "don't worry, we have it all figured out!"

Then about six months into the project I got a panicked call from the Superman editor: "This reboot messes up the Legion!!"

"Yes? I thought we all understood this?"

"No! My god! We have to do something!!"

They are going to repeat the same old mistakes, especially with their "selective continuity". Instead they should just have the balls to axe the old stuff completely, even if that means losing some books and characters (and not some lame backdoor ala "pocket universe") for the moment.

 

[yenaled]

Yeah many people think COIE failed because it wasn't an actual reboot, it was just a relaunch with some books getting a reboot and some continuing on pretending nothing had happened and some getting a reboot years later. I think it sounds a lot like this to be honest.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Yeah many people think COIE failed because it wasn't an actual reboot, it was just a relaunch with some books getting a reboot and some continuing on pretending nothing had happened and some getting a reboot years later. I think it sounds a lot like this to be honest.

Yeah, it basically meant that Superman fought nothing more than ordinary crooks for the first years of his career, while Batman had already got his whole rogue gallery and Wonder Woman on the other hand just started in continuity.

 

[yenaled]

Yeah, it basically meant that Superman fought nothing more than ordinary crooks for the first years of his career, while Batman had already got his whole rogue gallery and Wonder Woman on the other hand just started in continuity.

Yup exactly, remember Batman was never rebooted. He got a year one about three years after the Crisis but that wasn't a rebooting of his character.

Biggest problem Justice League never got a reboot, they got Justice League: Year One which was published in 1999 a whopping 14 years after the COIE (and after Grant Morrison's relaunched League). What happened was the JLI which was a product of Giffen and DeMattis not being able to use Superman and Wonder Woman (who really were the only major characters who got rebooted after COIE). So no-one knew what was going on with the history of the League for years after COIE, not to mention JSA, which DC's answer was in 1987, kill them all them we don't have to worry, and really not till James Robinson used them in Starman and later JSA did anyone embrace JSA history.

We forget now that COIE wasn't this rebooting we all think it was but rather a staggered relaunching of some books with a messy nonexistant continuity of their characters. Which good writers in the 90s worked to clear up and work with, introducing old stories and embracing continuities.

In a shared universe you really have to reboot all or reboot none because every story mixes into each other so much.

 

[flash13]

As long as my favorite characters are still around I'm okay with it.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

We forget now that COIE wasn't this rebooting we all think it was but rather a staggered relaunching of some books with a messy nonexistant continuity of their characters. Which good writers in the 90s worked to clear up and work with, introducing old stories and embracing continuities.

Yeah, it was way more confusing than the parallel universes ever were.

 

[yenaled]

Interesting comments from retailers on the relaunch.

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/02/retailers-dc-reboot/

I thought these hit the mark pretty well.

The reboot announcement first struck me as DC trying to answer all of the complaints non-diehard fans (and, to be honest, sometimes even the diehards) lodge about superhero comics: inaccessibility due to continuity, seemingly never-ending events, and the ever-expanding shared universe. I'm glad DC recognized that the status quo couldn't stand: despite Meltdown being a "DC store," in that most of our core customer base are DC loyalists, sales on DC comics have collapsed (Morrison, Johns, & Gail Simone books the lone exceptions). However, it still feels like a half-measure: Starting over is fine, but how is DC going to change their storytelling to avoid standard attrition? Are they switching to a Hellboy/BPRD model of continuous miniseries? If not, what happens when we get to Superman #47?

What also bothered me, from a new readers perspective, is that the growth areas for DC are Vertigo and Johnny DC. Vertigo, for people who have avoided comics all their life because they "weren't for them," only to learn about Sandman, Y, Scalped, et al, which showed how comics are a medium, not a genre, and turns skeptics into superfans. Johnny DC, for the kids who watch the cartoons and can't get enough of their favorite characters - we can't keep Tiny Titans/Batman B&B/et al in stock. While TPB sales of Big Two books have stagnated, all-ages books have become our biggest growth market.

Paradoxically, by DC focusing on what's "wrong" with their universe -- honestly guys, nothing to follow anymore, start here -- and ignoring everything but their core superheroes, they could end up pushing away the new readers they are courting.

I started reading comics in the 1960s, and now DC has rebooted I don't know how many times. None of the characters I started with bear resemblance to the comics I was reading in the '60s, so to me this is just another reboot. I'm not going to presume to say whether or not they should do a reboot; each reboot stands or falls on its own merits, and if it's done done in the right way, and not in a way that disappoints fans, any reboot can be postive.

Will it bring in new readers? Probably not, because they may change the characters, but they're not going to change the basic format, which is serialized. To get casual readers, you have to be able to pick up an individual comic and read it, skip three or four issues, and then be able to read another one. That's how comics used to be, and you didn't have to read every issue. You could buy them at random and you didn't lose your place because there was no place. With the comic of the direct market, the fans took over, and everything had to be serialized. It kept comics alive, but it started to ghettoize it and shut out new readers. Now, you almost need a degree in X-Menology to read X-Men. And pretty soon, the average the comics reader will have a beard and be walking around with a cane.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

To be honest, I have no idea what the implications of a relaunch are... What does relaunch even mean? I've seen they are changing costumes slightly, but are they changing origins? Established relationships? Etc

 

[Mystirious]

Well, it's obvious that the COIE wasn't really thought out at all



They are going to repeat the same old mistakes, especially with their "selective continuity". Instead they should just have the balls to axe the old stuff completely, even if that means losing some books and characters (and not some lame backdoor ala "pocket universe") for the moment.

I woukd stop buying all dc products forever if they did that

 

[Tron Bonne]

Ghettoized. Heh.

 

[Darthphere]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm gonna check out some of these books when they come out. So I guess in a way, DC is winning.