How do you want ''Final Crisis'' to affect the DC universe?

[Kitsune]

Strong characters are generally portrayed as ridiculously powerful to begin with and smart characters can build practically anything regardless of their field of specialization. For years, the Flash was laughed at because "all he can do is run fast." The Speed Force finally expanded on that and gave the Flashes more of the applications that mastery of kinetic energy would suggest. It leveled the playing field for the previously limited Flashes.

But I'm not trying to convince you. If you think it's lame, more power to you. I don't, thus I'm glad you're not in control of DC.

Only an idiot thinks that speed is a week power. Force =Mass times acceleration. That means that Flash, who runs at the speed of light, generated some powerful force. Plus he has the ability to create tornadoes, and vibrate through solid matter, and travel between dimensions. Flash was never really hurting for power. Speed Force is just laziness on the writers part.

 

[SuperFerret]

The Speed Force was pretty much just a flashy name for the kinetic energy the Flashes use and control.

 

[Kitsune]

It'd be interesting at least if it was the FINAL crisis.

It's going to be as Final as Final Fantasy was.

 

[Harlekin]

Can't say I give a hoot about Final Crisis.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Only an idiot thinks that speed is a week power. Force =Mass times acceleration. That means that Flash, who runs at the speed of light, generated some powerful force. Plus he has the ability to create tornadoes, and vibrate through solid matter, and travel between dimensions. Flash was never really hurting for power. Speed Force is just laziness on the writers part.

Yes, but there were always lingering questions about why he could do all that stuff. The Speed Force provides an explanation and also provides a springboard for a lot of expansion, be it in the form of the kinetic-based powers themselves (i.e. Savitar and Walter West) or in the philosophy behind the powers (i.e. Max Mercury). If "laziness on the writer's part" is to blame for stories like Dead Heat and Chain Lightning and the Dark Flash saga, I sincerely wish more writers get that kind of laziness going for themselves.

 

[The Question]

I'm usually indifferent to the Speed Force. I think it's been overdone in the past, but it's not a bad idea, or even a lazy one. If it helps, just think of it as the Speedsters simply being able to manipulate and absorb kinetic energy, which gives them their speed amung other skills, and this whole spiritual zen-ness has been built up around it, mostly due to Max Mercury and his crazy South West Indian style philosophy. All of the extra dimensional stuff is just an extension of the Flash's already existing ability to (somehow) travel through time and alternate dimensions (although, usually with some sort of technological assistance).

 

[trustyside-kick]

I'm not really looking forward to that, but I'll probably read it in the hopes that it can restore some of what I liked about the Bat-family in spite of the current writers' (other than Dini) post-OYL stories, which made me drop almost everything from the Batman line.

Yea...my brother collects the Batman titled...but I haven't touched it in forever. Face the Face was great though...but man I've been dissapointed. Bats used to be my favorite, and like all I knew about. That changed quickly though. I almost don't care about Batman now.

 

[BrianWilly]

If Final Crisis is as good a story as Infinite Crisis was, then I honestly don't care too much what it "does" to the DCU itself. Although, "no more weekly comics for at least a decade" sounds like a decent start.

As for what I want in store for the DCU in general, whether or not it comes through via Final Crisis? I want the DCU to return again to the place where relationship were what drove the universe, not events. The chain connecting so many characters used to be so strong, and over the past years it's been severed by too many pointless decisions regarding...a variety of things. Friendships have been sundered. Cliques between characters are remarked upon but never really shown. When was the last time that any of the original Titans were shown together?...it used to be that they epitomized the phrase "best friends" in the DCU. Bart Allen and Rose Wilson used to be so close to each other as to become lovers in the future, and at his funeral she was seen playing distractedly with a giant purple ***** or something. It used to be that I could describe intricate relationships between any two select characters out of the random blue...and now? Wonder Girl and Kid Devil are both on the same team and I have absolutely no idea what they think about each other.

A part of the problem is simply bad writing. Another part of the problem is lack of familiarity with character histories; how do you expect to get these peoples' relationships right if you don't get their continuity right? There just aren't that many writers around who are not only intimate with their characters' histories but are also interested in maintaining them.

 

[vms7591]

I wasnt even aware of the final crisis thing lol

_______________

I did it, I finally killed Batman.In front of vulnerable disabled kids.Now bring me Santa Clause - The Joker

 

[Prognosticator]

I wasnt even aware of the final crisis thing lol

consider yourself aware.

 

[vms7591]

oooooooooooooo looks freakin awesome!

 

[Prognosticator]

i think it does too.

...and i don't even know what it's about??

 

[fifthfiend]

Just cause it'd kill me not to get my 2 cents in:

And I think it's lame. Do all the strong characters in DC need a "Strength force" to explain how they can lift things. Is there a "Smart force" for all those hyper intelligent characters? And yes I know there actually is something called the "Strong force" in physics, but that has to do with the interaction between subatomic particles.

Superman doesn't need a strong force because has enhanced Kryptonian physiology, which is the same reason he doesn't need a speed force to explain his super-speed or an eyeball-laser force to explain his heat vision. Strength-types generally have some degree of invulnerability or whatever else to explain why when they try to lift a mountain, the mountain doesn't just crush their limbs.

The thing is that the Flashes always had some sort of implied "speed force" or whatever to explain how they were able to do all the crazy stuff they could do without otherwise being super-strong or invulnerable or hyper intelligent or all the other things without which super-speed would just cause your legs to rip off your torso or make you splatter yourself all over a brick wall. All Waid really did was make it explicit and give it a (charmingly unimaginative) name, and then expanded on the concept in some rather interesting directions.

 

[BubbaGump]

How many Crisises to we NEED?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Just this one and the next three in another twenty years. Then we'll be all done. Promise.

 

[Kitsune]

Just cause it'd kill me not to get my 2 cents in:



Superman doesn't need a strong force because has enhanced Kryptonian physiology, which is the same reason he doesn't need a speed force to explain his super-speed or an eyeball-laser force to explain his heat vision. Strength-types generally have some degree of invulnerability or whatever else to explain why when they try to lift a mountain, the mountain doesn't just crush their limbs.

The thing is that the Flashes always had some sort of implied "speed force" or whatever to explain how they were able to do all the crazy stuff they could do without otherwise being super-strong or invulnerable or hyper intelligent or all the other things without which super-speed would just cause your legs to rip off your torso or make you splatter yourself all over a brick wall. All Waid really did was make it explicit and give it a (charmingly unimaginative) name, and then expanded on the concept in some rather interesting directions.

The problem is that your explanations for superman, equally apply to speedsters. If your going to say "Superman's can lift a mountain without his arms pulling off because he's super tough" why not just say "Speedsters have a resistance to the forces of inertia" Part of the problem stems from the innate hyperbole of the DC universe, where characters can't just run fast, they have to run near the speed of light. Actually this attitude is probably the one thing I would want to work on most.... Superman has to be stronger than anyone else, Flash has to run at relativistic speed (even though we ignore the fact that this would give him the ability to make punches that would shatter planets). I'd try and tone down on the "Dragonball Z" nature of the DC universe so it villains don't have to be ridiculously overpowered in order to be a challenge to the heroes.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They've shown that the Flash's extreme super-speed makes him capable of punching and hurting guys a hundred times physically tougher than he is. Remember Morrison's first JLA arc, with the "Flash Fact" that let him knock Zum--a white Martian--halfway into orbit?

 

[Kitsune]

They've shown that the Flash's extreme super-speed makes him capable of punching and hurting guys a hundred times physically tougher than he is. Remember Morrison's first JLA arc, with the "Flash Fact" that let him knock Zum--a white Martian--halfway into orbit?

Relativistic speeds make that seem weak. Keep in mind that not only does F=MA... but Mass actually increases as you approach the speed of light making the force even greater.

 

[The Question]

Like I said....

I'm usually indifferent to the Speed Force. I think it's been overdone in the past, but it's not a bad idea, or even a lazy one. If it helps, just think of it as the Speedsters simply being able to manipulate and absorb kinetic energy, which gives them their speed amung other skills, and this whole spiritual zen-ness has been built up around it, mostly due to Max Mercury and his crazy South West Indian style philosophy. All of the extra dimensional stuff is just an extension of the Flash's already existing ability to (somehow) travel through time and alternate dimensions (although, usually with some sort of technological assistance).

Speed Force does make sense. Absorbing and manipulating kinetic energy would be a way for Speedsters to travel at the speeds they do without any ill effects to them or their environment.

 

[Prognosticator]

Relativistic speeds make that seem weak. Keep in mind that not only does F=MA... but Mass actually increases as you approach the speed of light making the force even greater.

According to my latest calculations, you're too smart for your own good, and should give up reading fictional comic books.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Relativistic speeds make that seem weak. Keep in mind that not only does F=MA... but Mass actually increases as you approach the speed of light making the force even greater.

Yeah, but at least there was some attempt to include the "super-speed = super-strength once you reach a certain point" principle in the comics. Lots of characters can't quite be true to physics because if they were, at their full power level they would demolish the whole planet. Like super-strong characters on Superman's level never really show the physical effects of hitting someone at full strength because the resulting opposite force would make their feet dig down through the Earth's crust or their bodies tunnel into Earth's core, even.

 

[FreeRadical]

What effects and repercussions on the DCU do you want to see after Final Crisis is done? Do you simply want minor changes or retcons on characters? Or do you want a major rebooting and start over the entire universe?

Another Crisis? I thought Zero Hour was enough, oh no they had to do Identity Crisis, wait...they then did Infinite Crisis...

How many 'earth-shattering' events does there need to be? It's like the DC universe can't adopt to the changes before another one.

Too many gimmicks.

 

[BubbaGump]

Another Crisis? I thought Zero Hour was enough, oh no they had to do Identity Crisis, wait...they then did Infinite Crisis...

How many 'earth-shattering' events does there need to be? It's like the DC universe can't adopt to the changes before another one.

Too many gimmicks.

AND 52, AND Countdown. I expect another half dozen Final Crisises at least.

Final Crisis 5: For Real, Folks, the LAST One

Final Crisis 6: Okay, maybe we were wrong

 

[Prognosticator]

I'm getting impatient for the release of Absolute Crisis on Infinite Crisises: Infinity Edition.

 

[Kitsune]

Yeah, but at least there was some attempt to include the "super-speed = super-strength once you reach a certain point" principle in the comics. Lots of characters can't quite be true to physics because if they were, at their full power level they would demolish the whole planet. Like super-strong characters on Superman's level never really show the physical effects of hitting someone at full strength because the resulting opposite force would make their feet dig down through the Earth's crust or their bodies tunnel into Earth's core, even.

That's actually part of my point. We basically ignore physic for strength based characters, why do we need a speed force to explain that type of thing in speedsters.