How do you want ''Final Crisis'' to affect the DC universe?

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess because the drawbacks to super-speed are more obvious than those of super-strength. If you punch someone, your strength level is so minuscule that you'd certainly not produce any major opposing force that would affect the environment. But if you drive a car with the windows down or ride a motorcycle on the highway, you can easily feel the force of wind resistance against you at just 60 or 80 mph. Magnify those experiences to super-strength and you'd probably overlook the opposing force factor, but with super-speed, you're left scratching your head as to why the Flash's face doesn't tear off or little particles don't drill through him as he zooms by at near-light speed. The downside of super-speed is more intuitive than that of super-strength, so the Speed Force was created to explain it.

Also, speed is more directly related to kinetic energy than strength, so it's easier to envision a whole energy field that supplies that particular energy than it is to envision a field of muscle density and potential energy and all the stuff that goes into lifting something really heavy or hitting something really hard. Energy is easy to conceive as manipulable as well. Strength, not so much. That's why there's also tachyon particles to control time and the Green to control plant life--time and the growth of plants are also easy to conceive as manipulable quantities. Strength isn't.

It should be noted as well that, eventually, Superman did get something to explain problems inherent in super-strength, like why gigantic things don't fall apart on him when he lifts them since he's a tiny mass exerting boatloads of force on a tiny point on their surfaces. He's got a subconscious tactile telekinetic field that keeps those objects intact, which was expanded on with his clone, Kon-El. So technically there have been some attempts to explain even the super-strength problems.

Ultimately, some writers just like to explain things. If the stories are good--which most of the stories spinning out of the Speed Force's invention are--more power to 'em, I say.

 

[Warhammer]

Browsing on Myspace and stumbling upon a guy with the Final Crisis poster as his display picture just now made me aware that DC is doing a Final Crisis. Since I loved Infinite Crisis, I'm looking forward to this. This thread was also great to read through, especially Corpulent's posts.

 

[BrianWilly]

The Speed Force is not just an "explanation" for speedsters' powers. If you're looking at it that way, I'm not surprised that you don't like it. It augments and enriches and enhances powers that they already have and creates an entire layer of connectivity between all speed heroes. It's their power ring and Fortress of Solitude rolled up into one.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Seriously, Savitar and Walter West are really all the justification the Speed Force will ever need, as far as I'm concerned. They were two of the most powerful characters ever to set foot in the DC universe, simply because they'd learned to tap into more of the Speed Force's powers than any other speedster. Besides which, Walter was a really cool, tragic character.

 

[The Question]

Seriously, Savitar and Walter West are really all the justification the Speed Force will ever need, as far as I'm concerned. They were two of the most powerful characters ever to set foot in the DC universe, simply because they'd learned to tap into more of the Speed Force's powers than any other speedster. Besides which, Walter was a really cool, tragic character.

Walter and Savitar were fairly badass. I mean, what use is Superman's strength, for example, if Savitar completely absorbs all of his kinetic energy and stops him cold?


You know, it's funny: When Walter first appeared, I was guessing that he was a resurected/time traveling Barry Allen.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I think most people were. He seemed like a more mature, serious Wally, and Wally is kind of a more fun Barry in a lot of ways.

Oh, I also liked how Savitar tied the Speed Force into his religion and mixed the two into his speed cult.

 

[yenaled]

Hmm, think I might go read me some old Flash tonight.

 

[The Question]

I think most people were. He seemed like a more mature, serious Wally, and Wally is kind of a more fun Barry in a lot of ways.

While Walter was a great character in his own right, I think it would have been equally interesting and tragic to have him be Wally, time traveling from the split second before he died due to all the dimensional hiccups at the time and spending a few remaining months with his family and helping them out before he dies.

Oh, I also liked how Savitar tied the Speed Force into his religion and mixed the two into his speed cult.

Well, the concept of the Speed Force, at least some of the after life-y implications of it, are very similar to Hinduism and Buddhism in a lot of ways. And odds are, the after life-y part of the Speed Force is connected to all of the other afterlives in some way, as all afterlives in the DCU are pretty much the same place, just different versions of the same place.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Barry's appeared both in Heaven with Ollie and to Wally in the Speed Force. DC's afterlife all seems to be connected.

 

[MagicPrime]

Blah Blah Blah - Crisis Crisis Crisis - Blah Blah Blah

Identity CRISIS
Infinite CRISIS
FINAL CRISIS

what the hell is next

SUPER FINAL LAST TIME REALLY CRISIS CRISIS

They throw that word around so freakin much. And 20 bucks says nothing will be solved other than killing off a main character or two. Maybe we're due for a total continuity reboot.

Typos ahoy! Edited for misspelling!

KYLE GL FOR EVER!

 

[MagicPrime]

Seriously, Savitar and Walter West are really all the justification the Speed Force will ever need, as far as I'm concerned. They were two of the most powerful characters ever to set foot in the DC universe, simply because they'd learned to tap into more of the Speed Force's powers than any other speedster. Besides which, Walter was a really cool, tragic character.

Bart tapped into the Speed Force more than Wally.

 

[The Question]

Maybe we're do for a total continuity reboot.

To years ago I would have said that was crazy. Now, honestly, I wouldn't mind all that much.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Bart tapped into the Speed Force more than Wally.

1) Walter isn't Wally.

2) Bart contained the Speed Force inside of himself, but he still hadn't mastered its potential the way Savitar or Walter did.

3) Everything from Bart's time as the Flash sucked to varying degrees and should just be stricken from the record.

 

[fifthfiend]

I guess because the drawbacks to super-speed are more obvious than those of super-strength. If you punch someone, your strength level is so minuscule that you'd certainly not produce any major opposing force that would affect the environment. But if you drive a car with the windows down or ride a motorcycle on the highway, you can easily feel the force of wind resistance against you at just 60 or 80 mph. Magnify those experiences to super-strength and you'd probably overlook the opposing force factor, but with super-speed, you're left scratching your head as to why the Flash's face doesn't tear off or little particles don't drill through him as he zooms by at near-light speed. The downside of super-speed is more intuitive than that of super-strength, so the Speed Force was created to explain it.

A big part of that is the unique nature of DC's speedsters. Like I said, you don't need a Speed Force to explain Superman doing super-speed because he's got invulnerability and super-strength and all that other good stuff thanks to his Kryptonian DNA. Or with Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman, all the same stuff except instead of alien physiology, magic and the instilling of power by mythical dieties. You can ask "why can Shazam run fast" and the answer is "Cause Hermes the god of speed says he can, and gods can do that," and you can ask "why doesn't he peel his face off doing it," and the answer is "cause he's got some power from some other god that says he can," and you're pretty much covered.

With the Flashes, the whole thing of it is they're entirely normal humans in basically every respect save for that they occassionally run around at whatever fraction of the speed of light or vibrate their molecules fast enough to phase through solid matter, etc. etc. If you ever had some character who gets zapped with lightning and he suddenly had super-strength but nothing else, you'd probably need some kind of explanation for why a punch from Joe Bankrobber cracked his ribs but he could lift a mountain with his bare hands without his entire body being crushed.

The Flashes didn't get their powers from magic or gods and as far as I know the lightning strike/chemical bath was never stated to be a physical mutation, so "unique link to extradimensional power source" is probably the best way to go.

3) Everything from Bart's time as the Flash sucked to varying degrees and should just be stricken from the record.

Seconded.

I can't see any substantive objections on this point so lets just move directly to the floor vote. Ayes?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Aye x infinity.

Oh yeah, I went there.

 

[fifthfiend]

Infinity plus one.

 

[The Question]

I wonder if there are any atheist Speedsters who argue that the "Speed Force" is just a fancy word for kinetic energy manipulation, and that there is no Speedster Valhalla.

 

[BubbaGump]

Redo!

 

[Harlekin]

I wonder if there are any atheist Speedsters who argue that the "Speed Force" is just a fancy word for kinetic energy manipulation, and that there is no Speedster Valhalla.

Johnny Quick certainly believed it for a while.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Johnny resisted Max's zen Speed Force philosophy for a long time. But now he's hanging out in the Speedster Valhalla, so I imagine he's converted.

 

[antonydelfini]

I say reboot and start-over the whole universe. The current DCU is full of loop holes and contradictions and so damn confusing that it's driving fans away. I say start it all over, with Batman # 1 creating the real and definitive Batman Universe or whatever. And make the universe even tighter and more accessible and more coherent that a Crisis will never be needed again. This CRISIS events won't stop unless we get the DCU we can really rely on 100 years from now. Purists might oppose this idea, but this is all for the future of the universe.

 

[trustyside-kick]

I want Myx to be a part of Final Crisis.

 

[Miss Webb]

I want Batman to develop fear powers and become an avatar of Parallax.
I want Alan Scott young with a real costume and personality. And some decent writing.
I want Ras Al Ghul to be Bruce's father, if for no other reason than to make the connection even more f***** up.
I want Superman to have an affair with Lana and have a superbaby, frustrating Lois and making her wonder why it never worked out with hubby.
I want Batgirl to join a dance troupe.
I want to see Wildcat turn into a panther.
I want Kyle and Terry to run off together, creating a storm of controversy on message boards everywhere.
I want Superboy Prime to reveal his true feelings for Kal-L.
I want Lex Luther to propose marriage to Lana.

They want Crisis, I'll GIVE 'em Crisis.

Whatever...here's your ultimate reboot

Universe goes BOOM inexplicably.
Issue has five pages of solid black panels
galaxies suddenly reappear
worlds are suddenly inhabited again
EVERYONE is a baby. That's right, EVERYONE starts from scratch. Planets of screeming meemies everywhere.

DONE.

 

[TheDarkKnight_NL]

I heard some rumor that with this Final Crisis, DC is planning to kill off Batman
I swear if they do that I'll never buy another DC comic

 

[Anubis]

Sure you will.