How much do you really care about X3 being only 103 minutes?

[kentshakespeare]

stop talking about what you are talking about and try to convince each other what the BEST CD OF ALL TIME IS! Once you both agree then science and life as we know it will cease to exsist!!!!!!!

it's either 'a love supreme' by john coltrane, 'super ae' by boredoms or 'disco volante' by mr bungle.

fact.

 

[pt_photo_inc]

hahaha... UNDERTOW, TOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOUBLE FACT!

 

[FieryBalrog]

see, you kep saying this. "wrong. yes, they're wrong", without anything of substance to back it up. why. are they. wrong?

Because of various objective criteria- use of meter, rhyme, imagery, symbolism, style, technique and all the elements of poetry that can be analyzed. The stuff students of literature take upon themselves to study and analyze.

not the same thing.

Its not an exact analogy. But why is one version of history myth and another fact? That is actually a good question, right? It depends on various criteria, not all of which are strictly measured by dials and meters. Just like the poetry above.

they both work in music. how closely related do two artists have to be to be judged against each other in your vague, mysterious system? same genre? same instruments? same scales and tempo? maybe the same song. maybe the only definitive judgement to be made is between bobby darin and frank sinatra's versions of 'mack the knife'.

The Sex Pistols work in a pretty modern, standardized format. Its better to compare them to others in that same pop format. Mozart and the Sex Pistols aren't really working in the same medium, anymore than Homer is working in the same medium as some guy who writes limericks.

okay, let's play. you be popper and I'll be feyerabend. but it's not about method or knowledge. it's about what that knowledge fundamentally purports to represent. scientific knowledge is a way of understanding the physical facts of our existence. aethetic knowledge is about understanding our relationship with the world, which, you must agree, is far less tangible, although both may be equally inaccessible.

Both ARE equally inaccessible. Its just that in regards to discovering the physical facts of our existence the Western world has decided to lay aside disagreements, settle on a methodology and give it a priveleged position. One that I agree with, but we could just as easily come up with a set of standards for various artistic media and privelege certain techniques. In fact, thats sort of what prevailed in university studies of arts before the 20th century, didnt it?

maybe they're not. but the point is that they either are or aren't. I don't think you can be "wrong" in art because a set of facts about artistic hierarchy is not there waiting to be deciphered.

Wait, why are we allowed to make judgments about the value of different physical evidences but not the value of evidence related to artistic criteria?

aesthetic judgements are something we impose upon the world, rather than something we take from it.

I disagree. In fact, I'd argue that the great majority of our aesthetic sense isn't even culturally determined, but is determined by our genetics as a species. All that we argue about are details.

reality is certainly built through the human mind. but I'd say you're not just approaching this from a human point of view, but a very western-centric point of view, both in terms of aesthetic values and female attractiveness.

Thats hardly true, considering I grew up in India. One thing I discovered after moving here (I majored in evolutionary anthropology by the way, so I put a lot of emphasis on that) is that a great deal of aesthetic standards are universal. As regards female attractiveness, there have been cross-cultural studies done about this. There is a huge amount of overlap between cultures. And it is because of our shared evolutionary history as a species.

is van gogh universally considered a great painter?

I daresay you show my crappy stick-figure artwork vs Van Gogh's "Starry Night" to anyone in the world, and they'll pick the latter. And that would be the point, human aesthetic standards are largely universal.

is kristin kreuk a universal archetype of beauty?

again, compare her to the plain girl next door, and I guarantee you she'll be considered more attractive by cultures around the globe. I'm not just making this up. This has been extensively studied by evolutionary anthropologists. Factors such as youth, physical features associated with youth, facial symmetry and other objective criteria are prized by every single culture on earth.

no. in the case of van gogh, it is dependent upon taking deriving your sense of standards from the european tradition of painting. in the case of kristin kreuk, we're talking mozart vs the pistols again - the element of old age is not a viable factor, as we are programmed by evolution to, in general, not seek out mates who have undergone the menopause.

Yes, but what did I say? We are human beings. In order to even meaningfully talk about "attractive" vs "non-attractive", we can only talk about it from a human point of view. Just as when talking about "real" vs "non-real" we can only approach it from a human point of view. Imagine an alien's point of view. He might find old ladies more attractive than Kristin Kreuk, but why stop there? He might think the theory of relativity is bunk, that for him, his "logic" dictates something completely different to explain physical phenomena. We like to think that every observer will agree on the nature of physical reality, but why would that be the case any more than every observer agreeing on the nature of aesthetic truth?

and for any "attractive" woman of childbearing age, opinion will be massively divided about her beauty, especially across cultures.

except it isn't.

anyway, nice chatting to you. I disagree with virtually everything you say, but it's been fun.

yup.

 

[FieryBalrog]

it's either 'a love supreme' by john coltrane, 'super ae' by boredoms or 'disco volante' by mr bungle.

fact.

"Doolittle" by the Pixies, or "Rubber Soul" by the Beatles.

fact.

 

[kentshakespeare]

hahaha... UNDERTOW, TOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOUBLE FACT!

aenima is better...

 

[Emma718]

if the movie is awesome and has lots of action, good storyline and that..it's fine by me and o yea lots of Pyro screen time lol

 

[kentshakespeare]

"Doolittle" by the Pixies, or "Rubber Soul" by the Beatles.

fact.

nice choice, but I'd go with the white album as their finest hour. happiness..., helter skelter, blackbird, mother nature's son, I'm so tired, revolution no.9, rocky racoon, everybody's got something to hide...it's all good.

 

[Sunstar]

This thread is going off topic!

 

[kentshakespeare]

only briefly. normal service will be resumed when a running time is confirmed. so, sunstar - favourite CD?

 

[Sunstar]

Mariah Carey - The Emancipation of Mimi!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Oh my god, i cant believe what Kinberg said about Batman Begins. BB is by far the best comic book movie out there and X3 wont be fit enough to kiss Nolans arse. What a joke this guy is. Shave 35 mins off BB, i'd rather they shaved another 35 off of X3.

And regarding the news on the front page Kinberg stated that the final movie will be around 103 mins, so dont breath a sigh of relief people. More and more i think i am not going to see this movie.

 

[JokerNick]

Oh my god, i cant believe what Kinberg said about Batman Begins. BB is by far the best comic book movie out there and X3 wont be fit enough to kiss Nolans arse. What a joke this guy is. Shave 35 mins off BB, i'd rather they shaved another 35 off of X3.

And regarding the news on the front page Kinberg stated that the final movie will be around 103 mins, so dont breath a sigh of relief people. More and more i think i am not going to see this movie.

after his comments on BB, I had some extra cash last night that I was going to buy the Daredevil: SE.......... but instead, I bought a second copy of BB, so now I got one for my big TV, and one for the bedroom...... watched BB last night, and it gets better and better every time I watch it.......

 

[Angry Sentinel]

Edit...
yes but those ****ers will be like "Pirating is hurting us... it isnt the 197 remakes of old movies we did this year starring will ferrel or ben stiller!"

This REALLY made me laugh hard... and people wonder why I keep making comments about wanting a steak dinner instead of mush meal.

 

[pyromaniac]

Oh my god, i cant believe what Kinberg said about Batman Begins. BB is by far the best comic book movie out there and X3 wont be fit enough to kiss Nolans arse. What a joke this guy is. Shave 35 mins off BB, i'd rather they shaved another 35 off of X3.

And regarding the news on the front page Kinberg stated that the final movie will be around 103 mins, so dont breath a sigh of relief people. More and more i think i am not going to see this movie.

What did Kinberg say about BB exactly? I would have expected it less of him, considering his love for comic book frameworks.

And er, Kinberg never was quoted to say that the final film would clock at about 103 minutes, that was Cannes, and all he said was that he thought X2 was a tad long, in his opinion.

But the general consensus was that story matters more than action; it services action, not the other way around.

And anyway, wow, I don't exactly know the instigation of the debate between kentshakespeare and FieryBalrog, but what a simulating read, even if I want to read it sometimes again to be better illuminated and informed.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

FieryBalrog, carissimo,
I agree with virtually everything you said.

In the example of poetry, you are totally right: you can measure it through the variety of the technique; Dante's terza rima, a very complicated rhyme scheme to be used in such a vast poem as the Divine Comedy, for instance, draws attention to one specific (and never surpassed) craftmanship in poetry.

In music, as well: Mozart could go from Bach to the principles of Beethoven and leave his own mark. Although I like very much the Sex Pistols, it's quite obvious that Mozart's music is far better. He knew, I suppose, more than three chords.

And, to kentshakespeare: of course, carissimo, I have my epiphanies with art. But when I consider (or ponder) its merits, I should think in order to understand. Even to understand what produced that epiphany. If it couldn't be explained and measured, than it would be a beauteous gift from god, and not a human invention.

Not a science, but an art. And certainly, not a religion.

 

[JokerNick]

FieryBalrog, carissimo,
I agree with virtually everything you said.

In the example of poetry, you are totally right: you can measure it through the variety of the technique; Dante's terza rima, a very complicated rhyme scheme to be used in such a vast poem as the Divine Comedy, for instance, draws attention to one specific (and never surpassed) craftmanship in poetry.

In music, as well: Mozart could go from Bach to the principles of Beethoven and leave his own mark. Although I like very much the Sex Pistols, it's quite obvious that Mozart's music is far better. He knew, I suppose, more than three chords.

And, to kentshakespeare: of course, carissimo, I have my epiphanies with art. But when I consider (or ponder) its merits, I should think in order to understand. Even to understand what produced that epiphany. If it couldn't be explained and measured, than it would be a beauteous gift from god, and not a human invention.

Not a science, but an art. And certainly, not a religion.

not this again, and just when I finally uncrossed my eyes.......

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

after his comments on BB, I had some extra cash last night that I was going to buy the Daredevil: SE.......... but instead, I bought a second copy of BB, so now I got one for my big TV, and one for the bedroom...... watched BB last night, and it gets better and better every time I watch it.......

I'm no hardcore Batman fan, but i have watched BB over 35 times and never once got bored. It is fantastic.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

What did Kinberg say about BB exactly? I would have expected it less of him, considering his love for comic book frameworks.

He said that he would have shaved 35mins off of BB's final run time, making it 104 mins long

Kinberg never was quoted to say that the final film would clock at about 103 minutes, that was Cannes, and all he said was that he thought X2 was a tad long, in his opinion.

He DID confirm that it would be around that time, few mins more or less nothing more. And if you dont believe me, check the X-Verse.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

if he thinks 35 minutes should have been cut from Batman Begins, was bored in the third act, and thought that there were too many villains then yes, in fact he is out of his mind...

Wrong.

It means he has an opinion, as do you. Your's carries the same amount of water as his--no more, and certainly no less.

I too thought that BB was slow in some areas, and much of that 30 minutes he's referring to was spent on building a foundation for the main character via origin stories, etc. Such won't be necessary for X3.

 

[WorthyStevens]

What are they going to say? Yea we cut down the movie to 95 minutes to mess things up?

And before anyone jumps on me about the non-confirmation,

I’m not entirely sure of the final FINAL running time, but it will indeed be around the announced time.

It's said only 30 seconds were cut from the movie. What's the point in hiding the fact more than that was cut?

Anyways, they trusted Ratner with $200 million. If they have that big of a trust in him, Fox doesn't need to do any kind of editing to this movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Wrong.

It means he has an opinion, as do you. Your's carries the same amount of water as his--no more, and certainly no less.

I too thought that BB was slow in some areas, and much of that 30 minutes he's referring to was spent on building a foundation for the main character via origin stories, etc. Such won't be necessary for X3.

Except for Juggernaut, Callisto, Angel, Beast, The President, Warrington Snr and every other new character out there. I cant believe there are people who thought BB was slow, would you guys rather have FF or something?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Except for Juggernaut, Callisto, Angel, Beast, The President, Warrington Snr and every other new character out there. I cant believe there are people who thought BB was slow, would you guys rather have FF or something?

Angel and Beast will get character development similiar to that of Nightcrawler. We have been given no indication that Callisto, Juggs, Worthington Sr., or the President (for crying out loud--what?) will be anything more than supporting characters.

I'm not sure why this concept is lost on some of you people. Believe it or not but BB is not the only CBM that people thought had slow spots. Many of my friends thought that Hulk was slow and sluggish in certain parts of the film. But like BB, it dragged the most at the beginning because a foundation needed to be (re)laid.

 

[JokerNick]

Angel and Beast will get character development similiar to that of Nightcrawler. We have been given no indication that Callisto, Juggs, Worthington Sr., or the President (for crying out loud--what?) will be anything more than supporting characters.

I'm not sure why this concept is lost on some of you people. Believe it or not but BB is not the only CBM that people thought had slow spots. Many of my friends thought that Hulk was slow and sluggish in certain parts of the film. But like BB, it dragged the most at the beginning because a foundation needed to be (re)laid.

I;ll admit, some parts were slow, but not in a bad way, those slow parts, as you said, laid the foundation, and that foundation made the action scenes that much more dramatic..

 

[WorthyStevens]

I;ll admit, some parts were slow, but not in a bad way, those slow parts, as you said, laid the foundation, and that foundation made the action scenes that much more dramatic..

And while X3 needs to lay some foundation, it doesn't need to lay nearly as much as BB needed to.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

And while X3 needs to lay some foundation, it doesn't need to lay nearly as much as BB needed to.

I agree...for us, we should know who's who by now... and so on. I feel ready.