World How to make the spiderman web shooters.

[StanLee Wannabe]

How's this going?

 

[White_widow]

I'm doing the pressure test tomorrow to find out how much the can will hold. Only after I do that can I determine if the shear thinning properties of the nylon melt will stay there after the heat is deterred. Even if it doesn't, I can still build the thing but I would need to build a cooling system.

Also, I finally figured out how to spin the web shape that will both increase tensile strength and turn it into the net. After looking at the video game footage for shattered dimensions, It seems to fit the theory. This part will take a while as it requires calibration of motorized parts and a redesigning of the battery system. Considering I have almost no tools, that will be difficult but it will be interesting to learn how it all works.

All in all, I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[White_widow]

I did the pressure test. It was interesting to see metal expand. Someone asked why noone made square cartridges. The answer is because if one is to pressurize the can, It would expand until round. At 60 psi-70 psi, it expanded only slightly. It made a loud pop. The sound made me lose the grip on the compressor before I could close the valve. I have an idea on how to reinforce the can significantly, but there is a reason peters square cartridges look round on the top.

 

[White_widow]

Alright guys. I have almost no more money that I can spend on this project. I will try the most basic web shooter I can make. If that fails, I have to drop for a while.

 

[StanLee Wannabe]

Hey man, let us know. I might be able to contribute to the project depending on what we can work out.

 

[SP1D3RxV3N0M]

I'll stick around to see the results, great job,

 

[White_widow]

My main problem is trying to make to fluid fire considering the heat. Until I can test the pressurized gas launcher, do you want me to test the web fluid? I just tested nylon/ polyester and extracted a fiber. It was the closest thing to a spider web I've ever seen. I am going to heat the fluid and turn it into a 3/8" fiber and I'll see how much weight it can hold and how adhesive it is. I'll also see how far it stretches too.

Now as for the web cartridges, it is apparent that the square cartridges have to be much larger to hold the pressure, not to mention thicker. How about making ben reilly shooters? paintballers make the refillable cannisters for that.

Notice the cylindrical cannisters.

 

[StanLee Wannabe]

Hmmm interesting crossroads...

Do you keep working on a shape/style that will cause the difficulty factor to go up 9000%

or do you change the style slightly and have a much better chance of achieving success much sooner.

I say you choose the latter - i.e. Ben Reilly shooters.

 

[White_widow]

Not particularly, as these cans are designed fire pressurized shots(with a gas only, but the gas turns into a liquid under pressure) Either way I think, until I go to engineering school, engineering square cartridges that can withstand the force of pressure required to keep nylon shear thinning is too much. These cans can already hold about 3000 psi. I just think that by this point, that would be the easiest thing to do. to continue the research.

 

[StanLee Wannabe]

which? classic or ben Reilly?

 

[White_widow]

reilly's.

 

[White_widow]

I just tested the web fluid and I will explain my findings in three parts.

1.) The glob- First I heated up the nylon/polyester mix. It turned carmel brown before darkening. Now it looks like a symbiote. It is rock hard, dark and not the least bit elastic. I will test it tomorrow after the polyeurethane hardens completely.

2.)The fiber- I had to mix the nylon colloid when it was hot. It gave me one little nylon fiber that was later covered in glues. It was hard, strong, and it didn't want to leave the stick. I tried to pull it apart and it never broke. It did slime up one of my fingers though and now my hand is rubbery on two fingers.

3.) The adhesive- Remember scrambled eggs? They smell bad, clump into little forms, and are yellow. Well that's kind of what was created here. When heated, it begins to smoke, (My money is on the polyeurethane or rubber) It is very sticky, though not as much as we want it to,(but theres more on that) and it makes globs.

Now as for when I said that the stickiness hand some thing to it, I added water to the mixture to cool it down. After mixing it became the egg consistency. Before that however, it was small and liquidfied. I accidentally spilled some on my teting platform and it was yellow, rubbery, and stuck. It was still wet but not as much as hot glue. Imagine hot glue that was twice as rubbery and sticks way better, not to mention it creates fiber tendrils.

So what does that mean for shooter fans:

The web fluid is off, but I screwed up a bit. If I can clean the mess I made, I can try again but next time I'll mix it completely and make it like a scientist would, with more precision. It also means that unless I can make nylon turn from a liquid into a solid, I may be sunk (but Sebacoyl chloride and hexamethylene diamine might help which I just found for much cheaper. This is for 8 oz and the adhesives for 12-20 oz are anywhere from 8-16$).

Things I can do better:

1.) Use wwwwaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy less rubber cement. It spilled into the mixture.
2.)don't add water. It sure thickens it but it lowers adhesive abilities and turns it into eggs.
3.)mix the nylon in the final step and heat it at the same time.
4.) Get some patience. The nylon/polyester turned brown and black; perhaps it was heated to fast?
5.) Try cyanoacrylic glues they bond instantly to any target and react with certain sodium products to become stronger.
6.) Consider looking at the actual chemistry of epoxy to see if I can make a hardener chemical, (though if nylon works, then I definately shouldn't need it.

Anyway, I'd love to hear feedback, and I'll upload pictures if I can. I would need to borrow a camera first.

 

[White_widow]

OK guys, I'm officially out of funds for now but I'll continue this project in my spare time. I have already come up with a new design which won't require heat. I also think I will go the route of synthesizing nylon because I found it at a discount. Anyway, if you guys have any questions or ideas, let me know and have fun. Also, Before I forget, the final result of yesterday's experiment showed that while the fluid is incredibly strong, elastic, and adhesive, nylon was too brittle burned and it would take at least twenty minutes to set. So I will have to adjust the formula.

For now, until I can try the new web fluid chemical experiments, (which will be put off until I get a job and have had it for about two weeks.) I'll tell you guys about a good costume web shooter that fires silly string. The good thing about this (still looks like ben reilly's) is that the can is much smaller.

Things you'll need:

-4 gillette shaving cream cans. Each are two ounces.
-adhesive Velcro strips and the opposing sides.
-several cans of silly string
-drill
-spoon
-duct tape
-2" stick
-tongs
-playdoh
-hammer

The only reason those are classified under twenty bucks is that most people have most of the ingredients.

Now here is how to make the play shooters.

1.) Boil some water and use the tongs to put the EMPTY gillette cans into the water, one at a time.

2.)Use the tongs to squeeze the air out of each can for a while until no air is coming out. Continue squeezing the cans for a couple minutes afterwards.

3.)refridgerate the cans. They now have a vaccum in them.

4.)poke a small hole in the playdoh. Now take off the nozzles of each gillette can and silly string cans. There should be a little tube.

5.)In the playdoh, put the tubes of the silly string and shaving creme cans together so that the holes meet up and the playdoh keeps the seal airtight. Push the cans together until they aren't putting out.

6.) repeat step 5 for all four cans.

7.) attatch the adhesive strips to the cans. Actually use this for a guide on the velcro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0nx4Ei1rDo. (I recommend following the spray paint tip too)

8.) Take the spoon and drill hole at the end. Then use the hammer to bend the spoon under the hole you drilled. then hammer the scoop part and duct tape the 2" stick to the spoon.

9.)finally, put the spoon's hole that you drilled onto the silly string can's tube.

There you go!

 

[White_widow]

THESE AREN'T MINE AND ARE NOT AVAILABLE. I simply want to show you what a webshooter made reilly style will look like.

 

[White_widow]

After working on the idea for this equipment, I think I have an official idea. I still have no funds, but I finally found out how to build an incredibly simple valve that can be activated from the wrist, the fluid should combine nylon and adhesive without mixing, and it should dry within seconds. The only problem now is trying to figure out how to connect the canisters to a tube that connected to the valve. If you guys want the schematics, I can draw them up. It's so simple that anyone can make this with a home depot and an internet connection.

Now for the prop. I have bought some gillette cans. As soon as I buy silly string, I can complete a prop webshooter. It is clunkier than the toy shooter but that's only if you use all of the cans to form the band. If you use two or three cans, it is low key. So if I can create that, I'll let you guys know.

P.s.: While for the real web shooter, I would know how to create one that could, "Spin a web, any size," I would also have to experiment with machine parts and redesigning the band to afford it. For now, It will be lower tensile strength and splatter.

 

[spidey-dude]

just want to subscribe - good luck with this mate, sounds very interesting!

 

[White_widow]

Well everyone, I have good news and bad news.

The good news: I have finally found out how to make the web formula and how to make it work using the nylon and I will share that with you. I also found out how to make a batch of 10- 12 oz (which I estimate will give about give or take about a 1/2 of a football field) for 25$. It is easy to make though highly acidic.

The bad news: I'm pretty sure that the noone here could actually purchase the chemicals required. Well, maybe stanleewannabe could but most of us couldn't. The problem is simply that sebacoyl chloride, is too dangerous to ship. It will only ship for businesses and schools. The only person who owns his own business is SLW and I'm pretty sure even he couldn't because his company sells costumes and not chemicals.

Interesting news: Even though the nylon hypothesis was discredited, (If one needed a business to do this, parker couldn't have had access to them.) I have found another hypothesis. Anyone heard of Krazy glue? There is a type of glue called cyanoacrylate. It is super strong and bonds to almost anything instantly.

Read this: http://www.loctite.com.au/cps/rde/x...ue/hs.xsl/90_3692_AUS_HTML.htm?printview=true&

nine drops of this glue can keep 5 tons lifted because it is infused with rubber. Now there are interesting points that work with this adhesive and Nanoglue that correlate with the comics.

In Ultimate Spiderman issues 6, 35, and Ultimate X-men 34 reveals alot about the web fluid.

1.) in 35, parker states, "Do you know how freakin' expensive web fluid was?" In X-men, he continues to complains "web fluid costs sooooo much to make... I just wish I could bill these losers-- like 'Hey, those webs cost ten dollars.'" While I don't know how many ounces parker uses in a typical fight against a few thugs, I do know that just a few ounces of the Loctite superglue that held five tons costs about 4 dollars for two ounces and that is for one that dries in about ten seconds.

2.) The description of the fluid states that it has esters that cause the web to dissolve. Cyanoacrylate is filled with esters that can easily be tampered with in a lab.

3.) The web fluid hardens on contact with air within seconds. Superglue can go bad within three seconds because of how fast it dries.

4.) When exposed to water, Cyanoacrylate becomes a hardened and tacky polymer that can obviously hold weight.

5.)Peter stated in issue 6 that the formula was a "molecular adhesive."

6.)peter said that it was elastic and that he might be able to screw with the formula to adjust how elastic it was. Also in the comics (though I don't know the issue) The green goblin commented that the webbing was "rubber webbing" The new formula that held the truck was rubber enforced and was an elostomer.

7. and this one is the kicker.) In the same panel that peter was talking about the elasticity of his adhesive, he also mentioned,"The end is totally adhesive like SUPER GLUE yet the sides are just tacky. but not too tacky. just tacky enough to hold on to." Funny that he should mention super glue. That is cyanoacrylate. The only difference was that his glue dried quicker and could make a fiber.

8.) In the original comic when peter made his webs, he mentioned that only a chemistry major could make this. Chemistry majors are making new adhesives all the time.

9.) Bio-medical cyanoacrylates are available. These can create bonds that are as strong as they are wet ( weaker but still there) with skin and as strong as usual with any other object. I recall an issue where anti-venom asked if peter needed any help healing and peter stated that his webbing clotted the blood well. It would also explain why people can get the webbing off their face and would also explain why spidey usually ties his victims in a hammock around their clothing.

10.)Shear thinning liquids only seem to occur in polymers, polymer melts, and liquids with suspended particles. Rubber reinforcement can be considered suspended particles. Not only that but the trait seems consistent. even with glass particles someone created a non newtonian Kevlar.

11.) Cyanoacrylate is a acrylic resin. Someone mentioned messing around with the formula of silly string. Add a surfactant to a modified cyanoacylate to create instant fibers.

12.)peter's formula was one liquid. He didn't have to mix any fluids in seperate chambers.

So all in all, this is what I have to say. If there is to be any success with this project, the web fluid is to be an engineered cyanoacrylate with modified esters, faster drying time, shear thinning properties, and nanolayers that have been heat treated. I will have to say that this point, I would have to be a college student working for loctite of 3m to create this substance and I would have to engineer the formula from scratch. I officially can't create any of the formulas yet. Maybe I can pick this up in years but for now, I'm sunk. If anyone wants the final designs for the web shooter that uses the nylon theory, (assuming you have a business or school willing to back you up.) just email me at [email protected] Good luck if you want to continue the project. Have fun.

 

[KageKumo]

Ok I see a lot of people focused on the whole web swinging thing but I see that as an impracticality because of g force and that little thing known as physics. But I was wondering if anyone just tried to make a sticky fluid that acts like the sticky foam that the military used. Because in reality spiders don't shoot webs they build them, that being said there are spiders that spit a sticky fluid from there mouth.

www.xs4all.nl/~ednieuw/Spiders/Scytodidae/Scytodidae.htm

 

[White_widow]

Interesting! I knew that they pulled the web and that is what created the silk but I didn't know that the silk could come from glands in the mouth. Also, It's not so much swinging as latching. The biggest use I want is a restraint system to end chases. Imagine if police had a shooter like spiderman's. Even most gymnasts can't climb or swing like spidey could, but using a web to latch on clothing and yank. It would save the police alot of time and effort. That being said, it STILL has to hold alot of weight.
As for the stickyfoam, it is very dangerous. The military sticky foam's reaction is exothermic and capable of giving third degree burns.

 

[Spectacular23]

White widow hi.. Spectacular23 here i was wondering if i can see the sketch of the final web-shooter design you have. P"m it too me because that cyanoacrylate idea is just brilliant like spectacularly brilliant. I would like to see the final design and what you suggest i would use for the square cartridges.

 

[White_widow]

OK, I will send the designs but it will take a little while to put them on my computer. Are you willing to wait about two hours? I have the final designs for the two part but not for the upgraded glue formula one part.

 

[White_widow]

Well guys, I came up with a newer idea for the formula. It will have a tensile strength of at least 6,000 psi and probably more. It is highly elastic as well, at 500% elongation. There is one chemical that has to be purchased by a company but the other two are easy enough. It is more expensive then nylon. I am majorly tweaking this formula and it is nowhere close to being finished but it's a start. To be more specific, it is a nylon/polyurea mix. It will be similar in composition to spandex (which is tougher than rubber.) That does not include the adhesive but I found a place that sells CA cheap. So, any thoughts/comments?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyurea

 

[Spectacular23]

Well guys, I came up with a newer idea for the formula. It will have a tensile strength of at least 6,000 psi and probably more. It is highly elastic as well, at 500% elongation. There is one chemical that has to be purchased by a company but the other two are easy enough. It is more expensive then nylon. I am majorly tweaking this formula and it is nowhere close to being finished but it's a start. To be more specific, it is a nylon/polyurea mix. It will be similar in composition to spandex (which is tougher than rubber.) That does not include the adhesive but I found a place that sells CA cheap. So, any thoughts/comments?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyurea

Polyurea? This is new.

 

[White_widow]

I looked into patents for several types of fluids.

The first was military sticky foam. It would annoy anyone who had been hit by it. It's like impact webbing but is lethal if shot near the face. It expands 40 times its original size.

The second, was interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO_yWKGL8KI&feature=player_embedded

5. The doll of claim 1 wherein the limb contains a filament-producing fluid.

6. A doll as in claim 5 wherein the fluid is a mixture of a thickening agent, polyethylene glycol and deionized water.

A web maker substance suitable for use and meeting the above requirements is a simple polymer composition. The best known approximate composition breakdown (by weight) is as follows:
______________________________________ Polyox Coogulant 31/2% PEG 200 10% PEG 20,000 271/2% H 2 O (deionized) 59% ______________________________________


An alternate approximate composition breakdown by weight is as follows:
______________________________________ Polyox Coogulant 3% PEG 20,000 20% Propylene glyol 5% Sodium Citrate 2% H 2 O (de-mineralized) App. 70% Isopropanol 1% ______________________________________


Polyox Coogulant is a tradename for polyethylene oxide which is a water soluble thickener material. PEG is an acronym for polyethylene glycol. Numerical designations such as 200 and 20,000 refer to the molecular weight of the polymer thereby distinguishing products of various polymer chain lengths. The remaining constituents are well known to those of ordinary skill in the art. The above listed chemical constituents are available from Union Carbide Co. The product hereinafter referred to as "Web-Maker" is produced by blending the above-listed materials in a conventional manner.

I think it looks pretty good. It looks like webbing.

7. A doll as in claim 5 wherein the fluid is a mixture of polyethylene oxide, polyethylene glycol and deionized water.

8. A doll as in claim 5 wherein the fluid is a mixture of a thickening agent, polyethylene glycol, propylene glycol, sodium citrate, deionized water and isopropanol.

9. A doll as in claim 8 wherein the thickening agent is polyethylene oxide.

 

[fungusmonkey]

I know there haven't been any updates, but I've been thinking through a design similar to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQBj-RB6qK0

It's designed for a wrist-mounted pyro device, but it's essentially a chip-controlled fluid shooter (with an igniter at the end). You could adapt the circuitry to control the turbine or nozzle, to prevent it from shooting until your wrist was cocked back and button was pressed, to adjust how much of each fluid was fired out of the shooter (to make it more or less tacky), etc. You could wire it up and have two or more of the "canisters" actually be containers for the circuitry.

Also, on the squarish vs. round debate - couldn't it be both? A circular container inside a square block of metal? The circular tube would hold the pressurized liquid, but the outer metal block could simply be a modular container. Just a thought.