How would Bales Batman react to Jacks Joker and Keatons B-Man to Ledgers Joker?

[Ibn]

WHOA. I've never seen that. So that **** was straight out of the comics. They even have the exact same friggin hat. Cool Find!

 

[[A]]

How would Bales Batman react to Jacks Joker and Keatons B-Man to Ledgers Joker?

Awesome question!! t:
here's my quick thoughts.. Bale's Batman and Jack's Nicholson: quick punch in the face, KO, Joker's out of business in two seconds. Ledger's Joker and Keaton's Batman.. perhaps I should move to Metropolis? (Joker)

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea Keatons Batman would just kill Joker if he killed Vicky Vale. But I don't understand what people are on about when they say Heaths Joker would be scared of Keatons Batman.

 

[El Payaso]

Yea Keatons Batman would just kill Joker if he killed Vicky Vale. But I don't understand what people are on about when they say Heaths Joker would be scared of Keatons Batman.

I don't think he'd be scared of him. But he wouldn't be able to play with theb"one rule" as he did with Bale. Which was essential for the plot and the relationship. Ledger's Joker had the whole show being run because he knew Bale's Batman wouldn't kill him so he can push in that direction all he wanted, trying to break Batman's rule. With Keaton's Batman, I guess he would be using an entirely different strategy.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

With Keatons Batman Heaths Joker wouldn't "play" with him, he'd just kill him. He'd know that he couldn't defeat him psychologically so he'd just stab him to death or shoot him.

 

[El Payaso]

With Keatons Batman Heaths Joker wouldn't "play" with him, he'd just kill him. He'd know that he couldn't defeat him psychologically so he'd just stab him to death or shoot him.

You mean he'd try to kill him.

Then again, who knows what the Joker (or the pre-Joker) could do and feel since it's the psychological competition against Batman what gives sense to his life.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I agree with you that if there was no psychological battle between the two it wouldn't really be the same Joker.

But I honestly think that TDKs Joker would piss all over 89s Batman in a fight, or at least put up a better fight than Nicholsons Joker. Obviously it wouldn't be a fair fight but you know what I mean.

 

[Rockbottom]

Depends if he set it up like he did in TDK, with nets and dogs and crap or if it was at the top of a cathedral with no where to hide or "cheat" as much as i hate to use that term.

Just imagine Bales Batman fighting all the thugs Keaton's fought at the cathedral at once. That would be an epic scene.

 

[metalhead_dave]

Just imagine Bales Batman fighting all the thugs Keaton's fought at the cathedral at once. That would be an epic scene.

And owning them all at the same time. Because that's what Bale's Batman does to thugs in numbers... he owns them.

 

[El Payaso]

^ That's a given. Every Batman I can think of has owned his enemies fighting.

 

[Two-Face]

I can't see Cloone's Batman own the thugs Keaton fought.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Ledger's Joker plays with the fact that Bale's Batman won't kill him, the Keaton Bat doesn't have that restraint. He's so terse and almost silent that I doubt Ledger's Joker would find any fun with him at all. He probably wouldn't be around long enough to try anyway.

As for the other way round, Bale's Batman is so well-prepared and methodical I think he'd finish the Nicholson Joker's schemes almost as soon as they started. And he'd take out the Joker's goons in about two seconds.

I agree.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Yea I agree with you that if there was no psychological battle between the two it wouldn't really be the same Joker.

But I honestly think that TDKs Joker would piss all over 89s Batman in a fight, or at least put up a better fight than Nicholsons Joker. Obviously it wouldn't be a fair fight but you know what I mean.

You talk as though Keaton's Batman never trained and doesn't know how to fight. Why, because the actor that plays him isn't as physically fit as Batman is in the comics? That doesn't matter, just like it doesn't matter that the Burton Batmobile isn't really some futuristic supercar and is just a prop. Keaton's Batman is a trained fighter and the only reason he'd ever have trouble in a fight is simply for the sake of drama, not because he's meant to be weak.

Realistically Keaton's Batman could handle Heath's Joker, even if he is more aggressive than Nicholson's.

 

[metalhead_dave]

^ That's a given. Every Batman I can think of has owned his enemies fighting.

Not the way Bale's Batman has. He dives into the middle of multiple armed men and just dispatches them so easily without even breaking a sweat, it's like they never had a chance.

Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney all did beat the goons badly, but the goons all put up more of a fight. Those three kind of had to work for the wins but not Bale's Batman... except for the fight against the ninjas and the final showdown with the Joker, all of Bale's Batman fights have been COMPLETELY one sided in his favor. Hell I made a POLL with all of those moments.

Because that's what Bale's Batman does to thugs in numbers... he owns them.

 

[Evil_Meanie]

Not the way Bale's Batman has. He dives into the middle of multiple armed men and just dispatches them so easily without even breaking a sweat, it's like they never had a chance.

Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney all did beat the goons badly, but the goons all put up more of a fight. Those three kind of had to work for the wins but not Bale's Batman... except for the fight against the ninjas and the final showdown with the Joker, all of Bale's Batman fights have been COMPLETELY one sided in his favor. Hell I made a POLL with all of those moments.

Because that's what Bale's Batman does to thugs in numbers... he owns them.

I don't really see how that makes Bale's Batman tougher than Keaton's....or better. Bale's Batman was ready to hang it up and turn himself in over a guy, who by his own admission, just used a few drums of gasoline and a couple of bullets. When it comes to fighting, Bale's Batman is more than capable, but he sure does seem to get shut down whenever someone does something unexpected.

Keaton's Batman cracked The Joker's poison code, shut down his parade, and finally made sure that Gotham would never be threatened by him again. I really don't see how the Ledger Joker would be much of a threat to him at all. It's not even a given that the Ledger Joker would even get a chance to engage Batman in a straight up fight, as Batman was more than willing to blow Nicholson's Joker up in his hideout, and gun him down in the midst of his parade. (Although I'm still convinced that the whole Bat-Plane taking aim at Nicholson was an intimidation method.)

As far as Bale's Batman against Nicholson's Joker goes, it's not as easy of a call. Nicholson's Joker is fiendishly intelligent, and with all of the loose ends that Bale's Batman has on his identity, along with the fact that Nicholson's Joker seemed to have figured Keaton's secret identity in the first movie (with little to no evidence that I'm aware of), I figure Napier (I'm really tired of saying "Nicholson's Joker" and "Keaton's Batman") would probably have a good shot of targeting Bale as Bruce Wayne at his penthouse, rather than as Batman. If Ledger's Joker had him ready to quit just because he wasn't willing to kill someone, I figure Bale would probably up and leave the city if Alfred was killed or something.

I hope I don't incite any flame wars. I just honestly think that Bale's Batman was the weakest part of The Dark Knight. It's sort of weird to watch Batman fumble around for the majority of one of his own movies.

 

[Jack Torrance]

this is a hard thing to talk about, because in both films all of the characters' interactions with each other are dependent on the narrative. so just because one batman may or may not have had a "tougher" time with their respective joker doesn't mean that one batman is a better crimefighter than the other.

however, i will say that keaton probably would have had an easier time with ledger's joker, because he would've just killed him. and nicholson's joker might have had an easier time with bale, because nicholson was less interested in elaborate plans and more interested in just killing as many people as possible. even though ledger almost killed rachel at den't fundraiser, i'm thinking that nicholson probably would've just put a ****load of smilex gas through the air ducts or something and gassed everyone.

but in the end, you can't really make these kinds of comparisons because all of these characters have specific motivations and traits for their respective films. but even with that, i'm thinking that keaton's willingness to kill would've given him a much easier shot at defeating the joker a lot earlier than bale's did, for better or worse.

and in terms of pure detective work, keaton cracked joker's poison code by himself in a matter of days, singlehandedly dismantled most of the joker's gang (admittedly by killing most of them), saved thousands of lives by sabotaging the joker's poison balloons at the parade, and eventually killed the joker. bale, on the other hand, was always a step behind the joker for the entirety of the dark knight. he wasn't really a good detective in that film at all.

but like i said before, those are how the narratives worked out. if keaton was in the dark knight, he obviously would have had a much tougher time, because the film would've been over after a half hour if he was like he was in 89. and conversely, if nicholson was in the dark knight instead of heath, his body count would've been much lower and he probably wouldn't have been as willing to kill.

 

[metalhead_dave]

I don't really see how that makes Bale's Batman tougher than Keaton's....or better. Bale's Batman was ready to hang it up and turn himself in over a guy, who by his own admission, just used a few drums of gasoline and a couple of bullets. When it comes to fighting, Bale's Batman is more than capable, but he sure does seem to get shut down whenever someone does something unexpected.

I'm not saying he's tougher... I'm just saying he can kick more ass and has an easier time of doing it than Keaton. And the scenes show, Keaton's fights had the upper hand, but the thugs still put up a fight. Bale's fights were pretty much, Batman swoops in, twists some arms and punches some faces and all the thugs are down in a matter of seconds.

 

[El Payaso]

Not the way Bale's Batman has. He dives into the middle of multiple armed men and just dispatches them so easily without even breaking a sweat, it's like they never had a chance.

I'm not saying he's tougher... I'm just saying he can kick more ass and has an easier time of doing it than Keaton. And the scenes show, Keaton's fights had the upper hand, but the thugs still put up a fight. Bale's fights were pretty much, Batman swoops in, twists some arms and punches some faces and all the thugs are down in a matter of seconds.

Unless you have a couple of dogs or a henchmen holding Batman by the arms and you have some knife in the tip of your shoe. Heh.

Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney all did beat the goons badly, but the goons all put up more of a fight.

Yeah, it reminds you Batman is human and every new fight is a new challenge. It keeps the excitement up. Bale's Batman has been in the same situations too.

Those three kind of had to work for the wins but not Bale's Batman... except for the fight against the ninjas and the final showdown with the Joker, all of Bale's Batman fights have been COMPLETELY one sided in his favor.

Absolutely; Bale's Batman has some exceptions to his absolute owning. Every Batman has had. This is no different.

Hell I made a POLL with all of those moments.

Hell, what a fabulous proof of something?

Because that's what Bale's Batman does to thugs in numbers... he owns them.

^ That's a given. Every Batman I can think of has owned his enemies fighting.

 

[metalhead_dave]

Unless you have a couple of dogs or a henchmen holding Batman by the arms and you have some knife in the tip of your shoe. Heh.


Yeah, it reminds you Batman is human and every new fight is a new challenge. It keeps the excitement up. Bale's Batman has been in the same situations too.

Absolutely; Bale's Batman has some exceptions to his absolute owning. Every Batman has had. This is no different.

Hell, what a fabulous proof of something?

^ That's a given. Every Batman I can think of has owned his enemies fighting.

Christ...

 

[Evil_Meanie]

I'm not saying he's tougher... I'm just saying he can kick more ass and has an easier time of doing it than Keaton. And the scenes show, Keaton's fights had the upper hand, but the thugs still put up a fight. Bale's fights were pretty much, Batman swoops in, twists some arms and punches some faces and all the thugs are down in a matter of seconds.

I guess I just don't follow your logic.

In my mind, I think that its a greater display of determination and *ahem* toughness to walk away from a plane crash, climb to the top of a cathedral, and beat the hell out of a few people before you take down The Joker.

I had a really hard time following the fight scenes in Begins, so I got no real pleasure out of seeing Batman take out multiple people in seconds. I noticed him doing it a few times in The Dark Knight, but to be honest with you, it just didn't really grab my attention. It didn't have an "epic" feeling, if that makes any sense.

Frankly, I remember shaking my head in amazement at how easily Ra's seemed to own Batman in Begins. He's clearly just going to town on him in the monorail, it's not until Batman pulls the whole "mind your surroundings!" thing at the end that he turns it around.

Come to think of it, the ending fight with The Joker in The Dark Knight was pretty much the same deal. Batman gets owned through the whole thing, pinned to the ground, taunted, and then he pulls something out of nowhere to turn things around.

Of course, I'm definitely not implying that Bale is an inferior Batman, I'm just saying..the way people harp on the Ray Charles guy beating up Keaton after a plane crash is pretty annoying, considering the fact that Bale's Batman has more or less lost the final fight scenes in both of his movies.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Well Ra's has been a trained Ninja for years, Batman 1-2 at the most, and remember in Begins this was still ROOKIE Batman.

 

[El Payaso]

Christ...

No; El Payaso. But it's close.

 

[Evil_Meanie]

Well Ra's has been a trained Ninja for years, Batman 1-2 at the most, and remember in Begins this was still ROOKIE Batman.

He was a rookie as Batman, not as a fighter. It was clear that he had trained years before he ever went to the League of Shadows.

Besides, Ra's is an immortal leader of an international group of assassins in the comics. He's got centuries and centuries of fighting experience, and Batman still manages to beat him pretty soundly every time.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

He didn't beat him "soundly" atall.

 

[Evil_Meanie]

He didn't beat him "soundly" atall.

Yes, he does.

After all the hype with the resurrection, Ra's engages Batman in combat, and is defeated...SOUNDLY.

Then, Ra's goes to Gotham, gets an office building, and brazenly calls out Batman...and what happens?

Batman goes to the office, knocks out the league, and beats the holy hell out of Ra's, then tosses him out of a window, drugs him, and puts him in Arkham. That's pretty sound, if you ask me.

During the Hush saga, Batman goes and finds Ra's, and runs a sword through him almost immediately, forcing Ra's to have his men take him to a lazarus pit rather than take out Batman.

I'm not about to sit here and go over all of their various encounters, but the fact is that Batman in the comics has an easier time with Ra's than Bale's Batman in the movies. Comic book Ra's gets really angry and says some cryptic stuff, but when it comes to a fight, Batman more or less hands him his ass.