How would you describe Batman Returns?

[Rasputin911]

I've never been a huge fan of BR. As a kid I absolutely hated it. The Penguin scared the crap out of me. When I watched it again a few years ago I thought it was okay. Really, it's just a bit too bizarre for me at times. I liked it enough up until the Penguin has his army of Penguins go out to blow up Gotham and I was just going....."um..yeah" I loved B89, but that was still slightly plausible (for a comic movie).

Now, I do love the dynamic between Catwoman and Batman, and the overall mood Burton has for the movie. And Keaton and Gough were great as Bats and Alfred.

However, many things, such as Catwoman becoming Catwoman after she falls out of a window and gets liked/nibbled on by cats...had me just scratching my head. Also, I was wondering why in the heck Burton gave Penguin clown goons, when they would have fit sooo much better with Jack's Joker. The Joker's the one that should have the demented/crazy looking clown goons. It fits with his character better. The Penguin should have had Jack's goons.

So overall, I thought BR was okay, I don't think it sucks, but it wasn't great. I'd rank it fairly low on the Bat movie scale though.

TDK
B89
B:MOTP
B:ROTJ
BR

Burto doesen't understand Bat-Rogues. He only gets them superficially. And yea, the film's third act quashed any potential it might have had.

 

[BatmanForNever]

I think it does because first of all look at the title why do they call it Batman Returns? Where did he go? If he just stayed in Gotham City they should not have called it Batman Returns because he didn't go anywhere.

Second how does Selina Kyle survive all the physical abuse they put her through? Is she a female James Bond in black vinyl? Because that's the only excuse I can think of. Also why is Christopher Walken in this movie? What is Walken's purpose in this movie? Shreck doesn't do anything diabolical besides pushing Selina out of a seven story window.

Why did they have to choose The Penguin as the next villian? Why couldn't they choose Two-Face instead? By the way what happened to Vicki Vale and Alexander Knox? They just magically disappeared and that's stupid.

He wasn't inactive. Remember at the end of Batman when he said he would return if evil rose again, and call him with the signal. Thus in the beginning of Batman Returns he is sitting in solitude in Wayne Manor when the signal beams through and he epically stands up.

Shrek was a ploy used to bring the Penguin up out of the sewers and a way to "create" catwoman. She takes all the abuse because like a cat she has nine lives.

Vicki Vale dumped him, she couldn't handle the dual life. Alfred mentions here in the film. Why does Knox need to be in every Batman film again?

It is a slower film, but you called it stupid because you just don't understand it is even more stupid.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Burto doesen't understand Bat-Rogues. He only gets them superficially. And yea, the film's third act quashed any potential it might have had.

Of course Tim Burton understood the characters. Tim Burton watched the Batman TV show when he was a kid. Tim Burton understood that the Penguin had been portrayed as a campy character. The Burgess Meredith Penguin was the Penguin of the comics. The Penguin had been a big joke. Producer Di Novi explained, "Tim hates camp, and it shows in his treatment of the Penguin. He's serious, dark and disturbed. He's totally psychotic." And yeah, I love the film's third act.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Of course Tim Burton understood the characters. Tim Burton watched the Batman TV show when he was a kid. Tim Burton understood that the Penguin had been portrayed as a campy character. The Burgess Meredith Penguin was the Penguin of the comics. The Penguin had been a big joke. Producer Di Novi explained, "Tim hates camp, and it shows in his treatment of the Penguin. He's serious, dark and disturbed. He's totally psychotic." And yeah, I love the film's third act.

That's fine, everyone has different tastes. BR just wasn't for me really. I liked some parts of it, but others just fell flat to me.

And the third act...I wouldn't call it campy, but it was a dark silliness to me. Penguins firing off rockets, penguins "sending off" the Penguin after he died...it was all just weird.

I don't hate BR by any means though, I like pretty much everything Burton did with Catwoman, except her actually becoming Catwoman. And while I liked Schrek, I would have liked to see Two-Face in BR instead. I'm really curious to see what Burton would have done with a third film. If the studio had kept him, they obviously would have limited his creative choices a bit because of the backlash against BR, but hopefully we would have gotten something in-between B89 and BR, which would have been very interesting to watch.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

For me:

MOTP
B'89 - TDK
BB
BR

IMO, all of those are worthy Batman flicks

 

[theMan-Bat]

That's fine, everyone has different tastes. BR just wasn't for me really. I liked some parts of it, but others just fell flat to me.

And the third act...I wouldn't call it campy, but it was a dark silliness to me. Penguins firing off rockets, penguins "sending off" the Penguin after he died...it was all just weird.

That's what I love about it. It's totally bizarre and unpredictable. Suicide bombing penguins. It's just...out there, man!

I don't hate BR by any means though, I like pretty much everything Burton did with Catwoman, except her actually becoming Catwoman. And while I liked Schrek, I would have liked to see Two-Face in BR instead. I'm really curious to see what Burton would have done with a third film. If the studio had kept him, they obviously would have limited his creative choices a bit because of the backlash against BR, but hopefully we would have gotten something in-between B89 and BR, which would have been very interesting to watch.

Chris Nolan's The Dark Knight made up for Two-Face's absence in Batman Returns, and it made up for the “Is this appropriate for kids?” people not allowing Tim Burton to make another Batman flick.

 

[Bat Attack]

Penguin's plan was downright evil, wanting to kill children by throwing them in toxic waste. Thats sick.

 

[Rasputin911]

Of course Tim Burton understood the characters. Tim Burton watched the Batman TV show when he was a kid. Tim Burton understood that the Penguin had been portrayed as a campy character. The Burgess Meredith Penguin was the Penguin of the comics. The Penguin had been a big joke. Producer Di Novi explained, "Tim hates camp, and it shows in his treatment of the Penguin. He's serious, dark and disturbed. He's totally psychotic." And yeah, I love the film's third act.

Then he should have picked a different villain. There's aplenty to choose from

 

[The Joker]

Then he should have picked a different villain. There's aplenty to choose from

Why should he, when he can improve on a classic Bill Finger villain who needed a revamp?

I loved DeVito's Penguin. My favourite take on the Penguin character.

 

[Rasputin911]

Why should he, when he can improve on a classic Bill Finger villain who needed a revamp?

I loved DeVito's Penguin. My favourite take on the Penguin character.

its not just an improvement. Its a complete 180 degree radical change.

A wealthy, sophisticated buffoon to a degenerate sewer freak? I'd be okay with Penguin just being darker and more "serious", but they made him so dark and serious and crude that it became silly

 

[Bat Attack]

its not just an improvement. Its a complete 180 degree radical change.

A wealthy, sophisticated buffoon to a degenerate sewer freak? I'd be okay with Penguin just being darker and more "serious", but they made him so dark and serious and crude that it became silly

LOL, to each their own.

 

[jokerface89]

I actual like the idea of the Penguin being a freak that hate humans better then being some high class mobster.

 

[MrQuinn]

Batman Returns is actually a pretty awesome flick. The story is fine and written well enough that everything ties together not so loosely. Each character has a definitive part, which have all been listed previously in this thread. Schreck was made up for the movie to help aid a villain and to show corruption in Gotham. I think viewed as a Batman graphic novel, something written non canon, Returns is a great Batman adventure. It's actually my favorite of the non-Nolan Batman films.

 

[StylishHokie21]

Why should he, when he can improve on a classic Bill Finger villain who needed a revamp?

I loved DeVito's Penguin. My favourite take on the Penguin character.

Agreed.

 

[El Payaso]

I actual like the idea of the Penguin being a freak that hate humans better then being some high class mobster.

The world is filled with some chubby high class mobsters. The big nose doesn't make him anything special. But DeVito's Penguin was a truly memorable character and monster.

 

[The Joker]

its not just an improvement. Its a complete 180 degree radical change.

Not entirely. The Penguin of the comics always hated society for rejecting him. That's why he often stole from them. That's why he dressed so elegantly, and talked so posh with big words. He tried to be upper class.

A wealthy, sophisticated buffoon to a degenerate sewer freak?

Wealthy? Penguin of the comics was never wealthy until 1995, when they "reformed" him and made him a nightclub and casino owner. Penguin in the comics when Returns was made was a master criminal with a bird and umbrella fetish, who was constantly in and out of prison.

Think Burgess Meredith's style of Penguin.

I'd be okay with Penguin just being darker and more "serious", but they made him so dark and serious and crude that it became silly

Aside from the penguin army with the rockets on their backs, I found nothing silly about DeVito's Penguin. He was one of the darkest, three dimensional, graphic villains of the old Batman franchise.

 

[aragen]

Why should he, when he can improve on a classic Bill Finger villain who needed a revamp?

I loved DeVito's Penguin. My favourite take on the Penguin character.

Even though he gave me nightmares as a kid, I still love him! t:

 

[Infinity9999x]

Aside from the penguin army with the rockets on their backs, I found nothing silly about DeVito's Penguin. He was one of the darkest, three dimensional, graphic villains of the old Batman franchise.

I can agree with that. Really, had they changed the third act of the movie to remove the penguins, I would have liked BR just fine, but the Penguins that understood the penguin and followed his bidding to blow up Gotham with rockets on their backs....that was just too weird for me.

Really, everything in that movie is pretty solid except for a few parts for me. One, I've never liked how Catwoman actually became Catwoman. She falls out of window, gets licked and nibbled on a bit by cats, then goes home and suddenly she becomes a kickass villaness? It was a bit too weird. And then the ending with the Penguins as I've said. I also wasn't too fond of Penguin being brought up in the sewers. I would have preferred that he just grew up on a streets then got into the circus, but I could live with it.

So really, had Burton just put in something a little more grounded for the two parts I mentioned, I would have liked BR quite a bit.

 

[Merkel]

Batman's Returns high points are pretty high. But its low points are also pretty low. It's a very schizofrenic movie. Can't really make up my mind about it. For every great scene and subtext, you can get totally ridiculous, almost B&R bad scenes.

 

[The Navigator]

I loved the missile-toting Penguins. You would totally see that in any era of Batman comic history, and remember, it was his last resort.


And think about it. Remember March of the Penguins? Hiking seventy miles through arctic temperatures and braving sea lions to get food for their babies + f**king missiles. That's the most formidable foe Batman had faced yet.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I loved the missile-toting Penguins. You would totally see that in any era of Batman comic history, and remember, it was his last resort.

It shows that Oswald "is" kind of a pathetic figure

 

[Infinity9999x]

I loved the missile-toting Penguins. You would totally see that in any era of Batman comic history, and remember, it was his last resort.


And think about it. Remember March of the Penguins? Hiking seventy miles through arctic temperatures and braving sea lions to get food for their babies + f**king missiles. That's the most formidable foe Batman had faced yet.

To each his own I suppose. Though, I did wonder why Burton went out of way to recreate the Penguin and move him away from the cooky crime lord with a bird fetish, and then reintroduce a crazy bird-centered plot at the end of the movie that ties him right back to his old roots. It was just a little too campy for me.

 

[The Navigator]

To each his own I suppose. Though, I did wonder why Burton went out of way to recreate the Penguin and move him away from the cooky crime lord with a bird fetish, and then reintroduce a crazy bird-centered plot at the end of the movie that ties him right back to his old roots. It was just a little too campy for me.

Well, it's not like the Penguin thing came out of nowhere, he showed them repeatedly throughout the movie (along with that canary that Selina tried to eat). The Red Triangle gang had easy access to explosives and bazookas, and Oswald himself was a technical savant what with his umbrellas, easy mastering of the Batmobile's security and that whirligig-remote control doohickey. Putting all those together for the finale seems consistant with the established character.

Plus it sets up one of the great Batman "prep time" moments in the movies.

 

[Ere]

Yes, I hate Returns. Carwoman shouldn't be a blonde, nor a zombie who was inexplicably revived by cats.
And I'm sorry, but I consider Burton's Penguin to be the worst "serious" interpretation of a comic book villain ever.

This is what I think:

Comics Penguin > Burton's Penguin

And don't like the comics' version a lot, so go figure.

I actual like the idea of the Penguin being a freak that hate humans better then being some high class mobster.

The world is filled with some chubby high class mobsters. The big nose doesn't make him anything special.

So basically Burton took a dull and lame villain and made him even worse. Not something to be proud about, if you ask me.

But DeVito's Penguin was a truly memorable character and monster.

If you mean memorably bad, then I have to agree with you.

 

[El Payaso]

Yes, I hate Returns. Carwoman shouldn't be a blonde,

And Alfred should be bald and have a moustache, yes. But all in all tiny details like those don't prevent movies and characters to work anyways.

nor a zombie who was inexplicably revived by cats.

Great. Because she wasn't that in Returns.

And I'm sorry, but I consider Burton's Penguin to be the worst "serious" interpretation of a comic book villain ever.

You don't have to be sorry abiout your opinions but have a good background.

This is what I think:

Comics Penguin > Burton's Penguin

That's not much of thinking actually. No argument to be seen.

So basically Burton took a dull and lame villain and made him even worse. Not something to be proud about, if you ask me.

I haven't asked actually but Burton's monstruous Penguin is much more interesting than a regular chubby guy in a tuxedo. If you disagree please articulate some reasons.

If you mean memorably bad, then I have to agree with you.

If you contradict statements for no reason and you don't even realize you're doing it, I don't think I'm ok with you agreeing with anything.