How would you reboot Batman?

[Airwings]

Llama Sheperd:
I am not a Jusin Bieber fan. But please don't try to teach me who he is. I know that already.

Don't you like Aaron Johnson? He looks more like Robin than Douglas Booth does (at least before he grew a beard)

I never said that Dick Grayson should be prepubescent. But at 14/15, you can't expect a boy to have matured into almost an adult. A few do, but the rest are more or less still looking like kids (just a little taller).
As we now are adults, we may not realize how young a teenager can look. Our memory is clouded. We always thought we were so mature when we were teenagers ourself.
Take a look at Kodi. He's 15 but still looks very young.
I may be alone in my opinion that he would make the best Robin right know. Not sure about the Dick Grayson version though.
I don't know about other candidates in the right age group.

Lerman could have been up to it. For modern Robin I think he was right on spot in the film Meet Bill, but that was some years back. By now he is about to become too old.
Chris O'Donnell was 25 when Batman Forever was released, and that's just wrong. Lerman will soon be 20, but who knows how long it will take for Robin to be in a Batman film again.

For the classic Robin, a Burt Ward-esque version, I have thought for years that Kevin Zegers nailed the look completely during late 90s. Just check out Air Bud 2 and Komodo.

The youthful appearance of the one who plays Robin is even more important than the age of the Wonder Woman actress. Stupid? Might be!
But Robin HAS GOT to have a teenage look.

 

[DaveMoral]

Look at male gymnasts for Robin, not ballet dancers.

 

[Airwings]

Look at male gymnasts for Robin, not ballet dancers.

Boy gymnasts!

 

[DaveMoral]

Boy gymnasts!

Trust me. 14-15 year old gymnasts aren't particularly effeminate. Graceful, yes. Androgynous, not so much. Gymnastics makes a dude crazy ripped. Even at that young age. And I don't think going younger than that would work well or believably. And mosr important, I don't think making him a full on vigilante at that age would work well.

Introducing him at that age and having him challenge Batman with being a role model and put hik in a positiin where he is forced to mentor him is the way to go. Then have him be a more fully realized vigilante in the next film with him at about the age of 18. The third film progresses into Dick becoming a man in his own right and dropping the Robin persona for Nightwing as a means of getting out of Batman's shadow and the association of him being the kid sidekick and subordinate.

 

[Assassin32]

1940's period piece Batman.

 

[Airwings]

DaveMoral: Of course Robin will appear in several films, and he will be allowed to age. But in the first, he should be around 14.
I agree with you that the story should be about Robin's origin, and Batman being little older.
It would push it too much to have a "Robin Begins" and then a "The Boy Wonder", but the spirit in this titles could at least color the stories. To not scare away people I think the trilogy needs to go under the "Caped Crusader" name.

Enough with discussing acrobatics. Who say Robin needs to be Dick? It can be Jason Todd. And when he becomes Robin full-time in the second film, it leads to his death. Tim Drake shows up in the later, but doesn't don the suit until the very last scene in the third film.
Then we have to decide what kind of appearance Jason and Tim should have. Allowed to be youthful and boyish? What kind of outsiders should they be now that people don't accept reither emo-inspired (only inspired) looks, or some feminine elements.

 

[DaveMoral]

Why bother with Jason while skipping Grayson? Seems pointless to me.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Trust me. 14-15 year old gymnasts aren't particularly effeminate. Graceful, yes. Androgynous, not so much. Gymnastics makes a dude crazy ripped. Even at that young age. And I don't think going younger than that would work well or believably. And mosr important, I don't think making him a full on vigilante at that age would work well.

Introducing him at that age and having him challenge Batman with being a role model and put hik in a positiin where he is forced to mentor him is the way to go. Then have him be a more fully realized vigilante in the next film with him at about the age of 18. The third film progresses into Dick becoming a man in his own right and dropping the Robin persona for Nightwing as a means of getting out of Batman's shadow and the association of him being the kid sidekick and subordinate.

Yepperooney! These guys are both 16-18:

DaveMoral: Of course Robin will appear in several films, and he will be allowed to age. But in the first, he should be around 14.
I agree with you that the story should be about Robin's origin, and Batman being little older.
It would push it too much to have a "Robin Begins" and then a "The Boy Wonder", but the spirit in this titles could at least color the stories. To not scare away people I think the trilogy needs to go under the "Caped Crusader" name.

Woo! We agree on something.

Enough with discussing acrobatics. Who say Robin needs to be Dick? It can be Jason Todd. And when he becomes Robin full-time in the second film, it leads to his death. Tim Drake shows up in the later, but doesn't don the suit until the very last scene in the third film.
Then we have to decide what kind of appearance Jason and Tim should have. Allowed to be youthful and boyish? What kind of outsiders should they be now that people don't accept reither emo-inspired (only inspired) looks, or some feminine elements.

Jason's origin is dependent on Gryason's. He's taken in so hastily because Bruce needs someone to replace Dick.

 

[Airwings]

Yepperooney! These guys are both 16-18:

Are you kidding me? They are no Robin!
Logan Lerman in Meet Bill, that's a Robin

 

[Ultimatehero]

Dude, the problem with me is that you're saying "not openly gay" - you're not saying a straight guy that's acrobatic and innocent - you're saying "not openly gay" - which automatically leads to, well then he's a "closeted gay guy". Robin's straight. And this is coming from a bisexual dude. Robin is just not gay. And making him "closed gay" is just sending out the negative image of his character and of Batman being a pedophile. Just no.

 

[Lord]

Are you kidding me? They are no Robin!
Logan Lerman in Meet Bill, that's a Robin

can you stop using that type of letters? Sorry but for some reason it's starting to annoy me

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I take every comfort available in the fact that airwings will NEVER be creatively involved with anything relating to batman.

 

[DaveMoral]

i take every comfort available in the fact that airwings will never be creatively involved with anything relating to batman.

lol!

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Just my personal fantasy here, but I'd like to see something similar in style and tone to the Burton movies, with a Gotham similar to Anton Furst's design, and no realistic reimaginings of any of the characters. I wouldn't want it to be part of a shared universe though, because I want Batman to stand out in his own world and not be in the shadow of much more fantastic, powerful heroes.

 

[Airwings]

UltimateHero: I did not say Robin should be closeted gay either. You are making that up.

Lord: I write with the letters I want to. I think it's my opinions that annoys you.

DarkSovereignty: If I could give creative input in a Batman/Robin film, it would be great for some people and bad for ohers. Just like every other version out there. One can't please everybody.

 

[Lord]

UltimateHero: I did not say Robin should be closeted gay either. You are making that up.

Lord: I write with the letters I want to. I think it's my opinions that annoys you.

DarkSovereignty: If I could give creative input in a Batman/Robin film, it would be great for some people and bad for ohers. Just like every other version out there. One can't please everybody.

Nope, i'm not even taking close attention to what's happening, i read one or two things, your opinion doesn't annoy me at all, i don't even remember what were your ideas
I don't have anything against you, i have something against the type of letters!

Edit: Don't take me seriously, i'm only joking with you

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I just read Batman: Noel, I loved the look of gotham in it. nothing too outlandish, but not Chicago-lite. I always figured a modern prague like landscape would be great for Gotham, like something plucked out of Europe and placed in the U.S.

 

[Airwings]

I always figured a modern prague like landscape would be great for Gotham, like something plucked out of Europe and placed in the U.S.

Great idea, man! Agree with you very much.

And if Tower Bridge, Big Ben and other stuff weren't typical London landmarks, they could have worked well with Batman too.

 

[Ultimatehero]

UltimateHero: I did not say Robin should be closeted gay either. You are making that up.

Um, what? Everyone on here can testify that you keep on saying "not openly gay." Openly gay would define a person out of the closet. The opposite of "not openly gay" is only "openly gay" not straight. And if you didn't mean any element of LGBT - that's basically the worst phrasing ever to describe something because that word is intrinsically linked to one's sexual orientation rather than sensitivity or innocence, etc.

There can also be a slight gay element to him, to complicate the character even more. But that doesn't mean he would actually seek comfort from other boys and be homosexual, nor does it include a sexual relationship between the two crime fighters. We need to move away from the parody image of Batman/Robin. Certain things work best between the lines.

You're not saying closeted. But you are and have kept on bringing up "gay" when you mention Robin.

"Best between the lines"? Huh? It's either he's just sensitive and straight or you're hinting at something best read "between the lines." Why would you hint at something that's obvious? "Between the lines" means not openly noticeable. A sensitive dude who's straight doesn't need to be read between the lines. A gay dude who we don't see doing anything gay, but can infer it - is read between the lines.

Once again, here...

I did not mean that the character should come out of the closet and admit to be homo.That's two different things.

Note your own phrasing - you didn't say "he's not a homo" you said "admit to being a homo." See the difference? One shows clearly that he's not gay vs. the other one where it's something that's just not admitted to but can be inferred "between the lines." Admitted to - coming clean about something.

It's your own phrasing dude. Whenever questioned you've brought up a really weird ambivalence to it - "between the lines" gayness and "admitted to" gayness, rather than just using words that describe sensitivity a lot more and better.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Thank you!


It's like having Batman start dating Gordon.

 

[Boy Scout]

Yeah...there shouldn't be any doubt that Robin's straight.

 

[Airwings]

UltimateHero:
I was thinking that he should have a gay element in his appearance, him being feminine and suspected to be gay because of that. Just suspected, I have to clarify. I suggested this because that would make the character seem even more complicated and troubled. Just seen, not really be.

Therefor, it should never be spoken about, nor should it be showed in any way. Robin should not be gay, only look a little that way. I am referring to his natural look now, no make-up should ever come in the equation.
His actual orientation then? He can be asexual in the first film, having no interest towards either gender. In the sequel, some girl can show up.

The question is if you people have a problem with that. A modern day Dick Grayson/Jason Todd/Tim Drake should maybe not draw inspiration from boys of today.
The drawing I linked to some time ago, wasn't even of Grayson. It was Drake and he's not an acrobat. What kind of excuse should we have to make him as bulky as your wanted gymnast version of Grayson?

It's just that I have a lot of relatives in all ages, and trust me when I say I have seen this with my own eyes. The younger ones are different from before. I have also discussed the subject with a close friend, who works with young people
We have noticed many teenagers to be more soft-edged these days than when we were in that age, both in looks and behavior. It's more accepted to be like that than before. But apparently not when it comes to how to portray Robin.

The femenine look is a very sensitive topic for people. People fight to save Robin, wanting him to appear masculine as hell and a true bad-ass.
I guess the world is not ready for this yet. Because a feminine look means weakness.
I am just glad that we atleast can accept him to be emotional and troubled. That suggestion wouldn't have worked several decades ago. People back then enjoyed live action Robin to be just a fun character (but bland).

I think I may be voted "Dick of the year" after my posts in this thread.
Well, it surely beats "Grayson of the year", doesn't it?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

UltimateHero:
I was thinking that he should have a gay element in his appearance, him being feminine and suspected to be gay because of that. Just suspected, I have to clarify. I suggested this because that would make the character seem even more complicated and troubled. Just seen, not really be.

Therefor, it should never be spoken about, nor should it be showed in any way. Robin should not be gay, only look a little that way. I am referring to his natural look now, no make-up should ever come in the equation.

Well this, is just ludicrous. Gay people do not have "a look" about them. Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as "Gaydar".

His actual orientation then? He can be asexual in the first film, having no interest towards either gender. In the sequel, some girl can show up.

The question is if you people have a problem with that. A modern day Dick Grayson/Jason Todd/Tim Drake should maybe not draw inspiration from boys of today.
It's just that I have a lot of relatives in all ages, and trust me when I say I have seen this with my own eyes. The younger ones are different from before. I have also discussed the subject with a close friend, who works with young people
We have noticed many teenagers to be more soft-edged these days than when we were in that age, both in looks and behavior. It's more accepted to be like that than before. But apparently not when it comes to how to portray Robin.

How old do you think we are? 40? 50?

A) I have teenage brothers. They are not feminine. They're friends are not feminine. I've worked in their school, I went to their school at the same time as them, most boys are not feminine.

B) I've only just stopped being a teenager. When I go to the US, I'm not allowed to have a beer. I think I've got a pretty good grasp of what it was like.


The femenine look is a very sensitive topic for people. People fight to save Robin, wanting him to appear masculine as hell and a true bad-ass.
[/QUOTE]

Robin is a badass, just like most characters apart from the 50's and 60's when everything got camped the F up.

In the 40's he'd throw futhermuckers off rooftops to their death.

In the 70's he'd be the youngest DCU character to get laid.

In the 80's he tried to adopt Jason Todd, and became the super hero who grew up. And Jason shattered people's collar bones. Why? Because he could. That's why.

In the 90's on Robin (who wasn't Robin yet) figured out the whole batfamily's identities and the other actually became Batman.

In the 00's Nightwing survived having a nuke dropped on his head Jason Todd beat the poop outta death, Damian Wayne cut off a supervillain's head put a grenade in it and threw it at Drake and Tim Drake, well, Tim Drake was there.

In the 10's Grayson was Batman in the most critically acclaimed Batman story in decades, he survived getting shot in the head, by the Devil, Damian Wayne beat the crap outta Joker, with a crowbar, Tim Drake found out Bruce Wayne was alive. But trapped in the past, he then proceeded to b*tch slap R'as Al Ghul. Jason was there too.

I guess the world is not ready for this yet. Because a feminine look means weakness.

No offence, but y'know that's just ignorant. I've not seen a recent film or tv show where women as portrayed as weak because they're women. It's generally the opposite.

Eg:

Lord of the Rings:

The Witch- King "No man has the power to kill me"

Eowyn- "I am no man"

*stabbed through the head*

Doctor Who Christmas special 2011

The Doctor "They have no word for woman. To them woman means strong! And no one is stronger than your mother!"

I am just glad that we atleast can accept him to be emotional and troubled. That suggestion wouldn't have worked several decades ago. People back then enjoyed live action Robin to be just a fun character (but bland).
[/QUOTE]

You are awful just awful at trying to understand Robin. I honestly can't tell if you're trolling now.

I think I may be voted "Dick of the year" after my posts in this thread.
Well, it surely beats "Grayson of the year", doesn't it?

It's okay, we take solace in knowing you'll never have any creative power over Robin.

 

[DaveMoral]

Airwings, I think you are kind of a terrible communicator. I mean, if your reference point for a youthful BOYISH Robin is "gayish" and "feminine" that raises a whole s**t ton of questions to me about the limitations of your vocabulary. I'm 32 years old, and I can assure you that teenagers even up to 19 years of age just look like children to me. Especially boys ajd young men, and that includes the jocky sorts that would have appeared manly to me when I was of the same age. Boyish, not girly or feminine, is the operative word here. Should a young Robin appear boyish next to Bruce Wayne? Of course, but feminine? You have got to be out of your mind to think making Robin appear feminine as opposed to boyish would rehabilitate the character of the entire "gay" and pedophile stigma it has in many people's minds. I mean, that stigma is so bad a live action Robin that took visual inspiration from the darker, harder and more punked up Tim Drake Robin was played for campy laughs and androgyny. In a movie with rubber clad Bat-butt shots.

If you want the character to have a shot at being taken seriously you have to steer as far from that crap as possible. He has to be Dick Grayson as he has been portrayed amd certainly intended by hos creators. He has to have some emotional issurs not because he is a sensitive emo type, but because he witnessed hos parents' murder. Just like Bruce Wayne. That sort of thing wouldn't make a crime fighter to be soft, it would make him hard, withdrawn and morose. And the only thing that would keep Dick from going full bore Bruce Wayne is, ironically, Bruce Wayne. He would be his surrogate, probably adoptive, father. As a consequence, Grayson has a mentor and a father who understands what he's going through and it keeps him from becoming the dark brooding man that Bruce became. Simultaneously, the responsibility of fatherhood would rehabilitate Bruce to a degree. Making them both more effective vigilantes.

 

[DaveMoral]

Another important point, Dick Grayson wouldn't need to have any social stigma or "scene" attached to him to make him a misfit. He's an orphan, and a member of a family of circus performers who was probably home schooled if he was traveling all the time, and his parents were murdered before his very eyes. He doesn't need the help of a particular fashion sense, suggestions of stereotypical homosexual "appearance" or any of that crap. He's a teenaged orphan and nomad for all intents and purposes, add to that an obsession with Batman eho is likely an urban legend to most and he ends up adopted by Bruce Wayne and trained as a detective and martial artist for the purposes of going out at night to fight crime... he's more than abnormal. He'd likely put on a normal kid act as a cover much like Bruce's playboy act.