I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[RedIsNotBlue]

the crux of this arguement is. the true essence of doom was missing in the movie. you guys can go into specific detail about it and debate all u like but what it comes down to is the movie doom was just another 2 dimensional villian with little depth, snappy one liners and lacked true screen presence. that can be all fine and dandy if the character WAS NOT DR DOOM. it would be forgivable if it were supporting villian or a little know bad guy. but dr doom deserved more than the treatment the character got. there is no point debating this, it is the truth.
i think the reason why the majority here are so annoyed is because the biggest villian in comics has had a horrible 1st impression. u only get one chance to make a grand entrance, and the film makers duffed it. thats the crux of it.

Don't try to make your opinion sound like a fact...thank you.

 

[nogster]

Don't try to make your opinion sound like a fact...thank you.

fair enough.
but answer this.
true or false. dr doom deserved a better movie adaptation than he recieved.

 

[The Guard]

So, you think people cannot understand comic stories/characters?

When did I say that, or even imply it?

What's the meaning of Doom actions in the movie? What story does tell the movie? Five guys go in space and become supha dupa, after that they only looks cool or they hang around while sloooooooowly the fifth of them decides to go whizzy to have them do something heroic?[/quiotye]

The point of Doom's actions? You need this explained? Revenge, mostly, some jealousy, but there are personal aspects. This is a man who always HAS to be on top, no matter what. Always has to have the last laugh. The upper hand. Very in keeping with comic book Doom. The whole point of the story is the effect the EVENT has on them all, and their interpersonal relationships, and the choices they each make. Doom's transition doesn't happen "slowly", just gradually.

Well, in BB they did not touch Ra's motivations, or past. And they didn't cut out the possibilities of Talia or the Pit. It is not about what they do not show,it's about what they show INSTEAD of.

Ok...so how is not showing Doom's intelligence and other aspects cutting out the possibility of those things appearing any more than not even HINTING at them was in BATMAN BEGINS? It's not about what they do not show? Ok, then since what was shown in Ra's character in BEGINS doesn't TOUCH what makes him so cool in the comics, or is completely different, and isn't exactly better than what's in the comics, is it crap? Because that's the attitude many of you are taking with Dr. Doom in this movie.

You can gliss about important things, for space/narration limitations, but if you instead change them without return, and change them in bad, you fail.

But see, the change is only "bad" for mostly comic book fans. And even then, it's not ALL the comic book fans thinking it's "bad". "Not as good", fine. You could EASILY say that about ANY comic book adaption that makes ANY changes. But "bad"? This is still light years above most villains on most levels.

Excuse me, where does he show it in the movie?

In his manner of conducting himself and his speech, in the fact that he holds his own with Reed, believes himself to be up there with Reed. In the fact that he understands half of what is talked about.

The easiest way to show it in a movie are showing his creations...

Or his actions. He wasn't portrayed as being uber-intelligent in this movie. But there's nothing in this film to say he can't be in the future, or isn't.

if you use subtile manipulations it's very risky, especially if you show ONLY that part of his intelligence, yet if you want to show Doom machinations, it's gotta be an incredibly one, one that makes you think "Woha, this guy is THE evil mastermind"

Huh?

not the talking behind people that some bitter old ladies do. ....well he created a financial empire?He ordered the making of the space station?Impressive. Again, Doom always supervisioned personally every technological aspect of his creations.

How do you know Doom wasn't right there as the space station was being built, since he already HAD it when the movie opened. Seriously, this, "Has to get every single detail of who Doom is right and there's no room for interpretation" attitude is getting ridiculous.

In many ways Doom is an one man factory,(one of his personal "superpowers"?^^) he doesn't use people if he can, because he doesn't trust nearly anyone (maybe Lancer).

And maybe he will be once he has time to go back to that sort of things.

Strange that even you admit it.

That doom's massive ego and "go-it-alone" leads to his evil actions? Heck yes I'll admit it. That's how it is in the comics, too.

This is the crucial point.The greatest abomination they did to him. Doom is a man, only a man, not a freak.

So, the greatest abomination was actually one of the things they got right about the character? Not a freak? The man wears an iron mask in the comics because of a tiny little scar (at first, obviously, later it's because of what the mask did to his face). A suit of armor. A green dress, cloak, hood, etc. He talks like he believes himself to be a God, and his schemes are insanely complicated and over the top. Doom isn't a freak in the comics? He certainly is, by almost anyone's measure of that label. And definitely has many elements of "freak" in his character.

It has a lot in common with Batman from this point.

You're comparing Doom to Batman? The only comparison is that they are both human beings who use their own means to become more. You could say that about, oh, 80 percent of characters ever made.

Again, that's no armour.

It protects him, doesn't it? In a very armorlike way.

Nothing he built, It is not part of him, since he didn't make it, it "just happened". Doom does not wait things to happen.

It most certainly did not "just happen". It happened because of his actions. And he didn't just wait for things to happen here, either.

And this is NOT the ESSENCE of Doom, sorry.This is the ESSENCE of a weak, madman.

Then what is the essence of Doom? Something he shares in common with about a dozen other characters?

the crux of this arguement is. the true essence of doom was missing in the movie.

What is the true essence of Doom?

i think the reason why the majority here are so annoyed is because the biggest villian in comics has had a horrible 1st impression. u only get one chance to make a grand entrance, and the film makers duffed it. thats the
crux of it.

Horrible first impression for who? Most people seem to love the character. He MADE a grand entrance by any real standard, and the whole "Biggest villain in comics" is an opinion.

true or false. dr doom deserved a better movie adaptation than he recieved.

True. But hey, so did Ra's Al Ghul, The Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, even Magneto. So do most characters.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Don't try to make your opinion sound like a fact...thank you.

Well, it is a fact they didn't get the essence of Doom on the screen.

But they did get some of Green goblin's essence, though.

Heh.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

fair enough.
but answer this.
true or false. dr doom deserved a better movie adaptation than he recieved.

There is no true or false. IT IS NOT A FACT. I admit that he wasn't the greatest villain. But I do think it is one of the best villain starts and setups I have seen on screen. I think that the sequel will give as an even better Doom. I thought he had an improved origin so I thought the movie adaption was great. Scientifically, I just proved you wrong therefore not making it a fact.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Well, it is a fact they didn't get the essence of Doom on the screen.

But they did get some of Green goblin's essence, though.

Heh.

Nope only opinion. Quit being delusional. If you think they screwed up Doom fair enough...that's what you think. But it is no fact sorry buddy.

 

[Quasar]

Here's a fact: I love comic Doom. I hate movie Doom.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Here's a fact: I love comic Doom. I hate movie Doom.

Well that is you that is fine. I just don't like when people try to make it a fact for everyone.

 

[The Joker]

True. But hey, so did Ra's Al Ghul, The Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, even Magneto. So do most characters.

I think Ra's and Magneto were done splendidly.

Ock and GG however got the short end of the stick

Nope only opinion. Quit being delusional. If you think they screwed up Doom fair enough...that's what you think. But it is no fact sorry buddy.

If movie Doom was not true to comic Doom then it is a fact.

If you like the changes they made to him to suit the movie then that's fine.But the plain and simple fact is he was changed from his comic counterpart for the movie.And that is a FACT.

Prove me otherwise if you can.

 

[Iron Maiden]

I'd just like to get something else out there too... There have been a lot of complaints about the FF movie borrowing the business angle subplot from the Green Goblin. What about the fact that the movie Green Goblin is seen developing battle armor? The GG costume created by Steve Ditko had nothing to do with armor so you can say they stole that from Doom.

 

[Rex Calibur]

I'd just like to get something else out there too... There have been a lot of complaints about the FF movie borrowing the business angle subplot from the Green Goblin. What about the fact that the movie Green Goblin is seen developing battle armor? The GG costume created by Steve Ditko had nothing to do with armor so you can say they stole that from Doom.

But there is a difference, Iron Maiden. The armour in the movie didn't really change GG's character. Doom being a businessman, having metal skin and electrical powers takes A LOT from the character of Doom.

 

[Head>On<Collider]

Dr Doom was not what he should’ve, would’ve, could’ve been; all because of bad writing. Between the screenplay and the original synopsis, this film didn’t really have any chance as far as reaching the potential it had before they began writing. Yeah, It seems as though they tried to fix it all during the last filming stages along with the post production to do the best they could with all the damage already done, but even had they gotten Martin Scorsese or some other expert on characterization to direct the damn thing, there’d still be only so much lipstick a frog can put on in order to look good. I think the actors and actresses were more than capable and the performances even pushed the low boundaries that the bad storyline provided. Tim Story could’ve directed the film really well also as this movie was directed as good as it could get with the material it had to work with.

So, had the written material been done the way it could’ve been provided the source material had been used as well....it’s source (rather than getting all “creative” with it for the audience’s sake :rolleyes”, this film could have been a real success rather than just a monetary success.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

I think Ra's and Magneto were done splendidly.

Ock and GG however got the short end of the stick



If movie Doom was not true to comic Doom then it is a fact.

If you like the changes they made to him to suit the movie then that's fine.But the plain and simple fact is he was changed from his comic counterpart for the movie.And that is a FACT.

Prove me otherwise if you can.

I NEVER said he was exactly like his comic book counterpart...I know he wasn't. I am not saying he was faithful..but faithful enough. I have even said in many posts that it is a new version of Doom on screen...not the classic Doom. Saint said they didn't get the essence of Doom. Is that a fact? No...because I think they did. He was cold, ruthless, had the outfit and mask, loathed the Fantastic Four, was Latverian, craved power, etc. To me...they captured the essence. How do you like that?

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I NEVER said he was exactly like his comic book counterpart...I know he wasn't. I am not saying he was faithful..but faithful enough. I have even said in many posts that it is a new version of Doom on screen...not the classic Doom. Saint said they didn't get the essence of Doom. Is that a fact? No...because I think they did. He was cold, ruthless, had the outfit and mask, loathed the Fantastic Four, was Latverian, craved power, etc. To me...they captured the essence. How do you like that?

CINO was a girl, in a cat costume, taking herself for a CATwoman, with agility beyond most people.

I still wouldn't say they captured her essence.

Oh, btw, weren't you the one who admitted never liking Doom's origin in the first place ?

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

CINO was a girl, in a cat costume, taking herself for a CATwoman, with agility beyond most people.

I still wouldn't say they captured her essence.

Oh, btw, weren't you the one who admitted never liking Doom's origin in the first place ?

I have never seen CINO and never intend too. I saw the trailer and that movie should just never be spoken of period...just erased from history. Anyhow...I never said I didn't like Doom's comic origin. I said I don't think it could be done on screen that well. But I could be wrong who knows? But I don't think we ever will know.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I have never seen CINO and never intend too. I saw the trailer and that movie should just never be spoken of period...just erased from history. Anyhow...I never said I didn't like Doom's comic origin. I said I don't think it could be done on screen that well. But I could be wrong who knows? But I don't think we ever will know.

Oh, you are wrong. It's pretty much a fact someone out there could make both a faithful Doom and a great one with a budget of "only" 110 millions.

Heck, i'm sure there's plenty of competent writers who could have managed to find a way to introduce him, and let him stay faithful AND very badass.

Don't deny that.

It would be like saying a good catwoman movie could never be made because Pitof proved so.

For ****'s sake, i'm sure I could find a way if I decided to write it. And if I can, i'm sure there's a LOT of great writers who could.

 

[The Guard]

Michael France's faithful Doom story was going to cost upwards of 200 million dollars, wasn't it? And that was a couple years ago.

110 million? I doubt it in many ways. Not with the way movies are currently being made and how much it's costing to do so. Considering the effects, the sets that would have been needed, probably quite a bit of location shooting, the extras required, etc, to include te Four's origin sequences AND something like action in Latveria/Doom's threats would have been extremely expensive. BATMAN BEGINS was something like 180 million, and even then they had to get pretty creative in some places.

 

[The Apatow Crew]

Michael France's faithful Doom story was going to cost upwards of 200 million dollars, wasn't it? And that was a couple years ago.

110 million? I doubt it in many ways. Not with the way movies are currently being made and how much it's costing to do so. Considering the effects, the sets that would have been needed, probably quite a bit of location shooting, the extras required, etc, to include te Four's origin sequences AND something like action in Latveria/Doom's threats would have been extremely expensive. BATMAN BEGINS was something like 180 million, and even then they had to get pretty creative in some places.

yeah i know that's why they could not do the france's script

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Still, if you can't make Doom right, don't do him. Wait till later. What's the uses of using him if you are wasting his potential in the first place ?

If you forget EVERYTHING about Doom (look, attitude, origin, powers, etc), one thing that always stroke me, was that when Doom is involve, it's usually something BIG.

If you've got Doom in your movie, he either has to make something big (full out attack with spaceships and an army on the USA), or he has to be part of something big (Galactus coming to town, Doom wooping his butt, etc).

Don't uses Doom if you can't afford big stuff, imo.

(again, one of the reasons they should have never used him in the first place)

It'd be like making a Galactus movie with the first movie's budget. It just... would be a waste of a great villain. Well, imo, Doom's just as big. And should have been treated so.

People who read marvel comics, and usually know their stuff, knows there's nothing much bigger than Doom's ego. Doom is THE villain, and should be above all. It's one of the reasons why FF: House of M is on such a good start!

How great it would be for us Doom fans, to hear casual say things like (after having seen an ff movie) wow, Doom is THE villain. He's the biggest, most badass, and noble villain there IS. Vader eat your heart out!

Alas, none of us will probably ever heard this.

 

[Obi-Ron]

I haven't read any of the House of M books, where does Doom fit in the story?

 

[Iron Maiden]

After the reboot caused by Wanda, Magneto has become the ruler of the planet, with all non-mutants being in the minority. For reasons unexplained, Reed Richards is dead and Victor has formed a group called the Fearsome Four. Using his skills in science and sorcery, he gave himself the power to liquify his metallic form so that he becomes malleable. For example, he turned his arm into a spear like weapon and impaled one of the Mole King's (read Mole Man) subjects. According to the comic book that came out this week, Secrets of House of M, Doom and Magneto have formed an alliance because neither can beat the other at this point. Magneto uses the Fearsome Four to stamp out any resistance and Doom is beginning to resent the arrangement and has decided to make a violent change to the status quo. (see other posts on the FF comic book MB here for other plot details)

 

[Bucknutty]

the ruined doom!

 

[Joe Rockhead]

After the reboot caused by Wanda, Magneto has become the ruler of the planet, with all non-mutants being in the minority. For reasons unexplained, Reed Richards is dead and Victor has formed a group called the Fearsome Four. Using his skills in science and sorcery, he gave himself the power to liquify his metallic for so that his form becomes malleable. For example, he turned his arm into a spear like weapon and impaled one of the Mole King's (read Mole Man) subjects. According to the comic book that came out this week, Secrets of House of M, Doom and Magneto have formed an alliance because neither can beat the other at this point. Magneto uses the Fearsome Four to stamp out any resistance and Doom is beginning to resent the arrangement and has decided to make a violent change to the status quo. (see other posts on the FF comic book MB here for other plot details)

​

As far as house of M is concerned...I have this suspicion that Reed's not dead...he's the It.

 

[The Green Goblin]

Movie Doom...

 

[Dark Carnage]

Compared to most, I know very little of Doom. But even I expected more from the movie version that we got.

The way people talk about him around here, I expected to see a man who planned for every eventuality. Who didn't expect a simple rocket to take care of Johnny, who didn't think "OMG!1! I am teh pwnage, u loooz." I expected to see a man so vain in his appearence and inelligence, which must be acknowleged by everyone. Especially Reed, who Doom knows is smarter, but won't admit it to himself.

Sadly, he was a lot more cliched than this.