I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[Kurosawa]

I'd like to know what Peter David was thinking as he adopted that **** script. He had to be rolling his eyes every 5 seconds.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I'd like to know what Peter David was thinking as he adopted that **** script. He had to be rolling his eyes every 5 seconds.

The worst of it (well, not the worst, that goes to Doom, heh), is that everything I liked in the book were about the characters development, the way the book was written, and how it let you into the mind of those characters. Exemple being the horrible fear Johnny had while he first caught on fire in the mountain.

What I didn't liked was most of the main story, and the cheesy one liners and dialogues that felt, well, bad.

But I hadn't really though about it, until yesterday, when I saw one of the new clips, and realised that we would only be getting the bad one liners and cheesy dialogue in the movie, and everything that felt good was from David, and wouldn't be in the movie.

The Johnny scene felt good in the book. It felt bad in the movie. And I understand why now.

That is even more depressing...

 

[Kurosawa]

The worst of it (well, not the worst, that goes to Doom, heh), is that everything I liked in the book were about the characters development, the way the book was written, and how it let you into the mind of those characters. Exemple being the horrible fear Johnny had while he first caught on fire in the mountain.

What I didn't liked was most of the main story, and the cheesy one liners and dialogues that felt, well, bad.

But I hadn't really though about it, until yesterday, when I saw one of the new clips, and realised that we would only be getting the bad one liners and cheesy dialogue in the movie, and everything that felt good was from David, and wouldn't be in the movie.

The Johnny scene felt good in the book. It felt bad in the movie. And I understand why now.

That is even more depressing...

Well, unlike the movie makers, David does pretty much know what he's doing.

 

[Sardaukar]

Yeah, behind the book's lame one-liners, David gets to tell us what the characters are thinking. So, he's able to make them appear more complex and sympathetic than they will probably seem in the movie where all you can rely upon is dialogue and body language.

 

[Sardaukar]

But I don't know if the book really makes sense in places. What is Johnny doing at a Motocross track? Don't you have to be a genuine professional to do that kind of thing, not a part-time astronaut?

Plus, I really didn't like the origin of their powers...

Steam + cosmic rays=invisibility?

Reaching for something + cosmic rays= stretching powers?

I don't know...

 

[Carter]

It's pretty hard to explain invisibility powers and make it sound realistic..

 

[Sardaukar]

It's pretty hard to explain invisibility powers and make it sound realistic..

Yeah, but I think it works better to just leave it as a freak thing that happens instead of trying to explain it at all.

But anyways, I guess I'm straying from the point of this thread...

 

[Milkman95]

Yeah, I had a fear about that Dr. Doom line - it's awful, and I really hope it's either not in there or Julian's delivery cushions the blow.........

 

[wetgorilla]

IMO, after this movie tanks due to the flawed characters and weak script, the idea of another FF film being made will be slim to none (at least for another fifteen years or so). Hopefully the producers will see that this film wasn't given a Parisian welcome and move onto other franchises.

With any luck, Tim Story and the rest of the creative team won't be commissioned to deface any other comic movie in the future. I think the momentum of the fan base is beginning to recognize the betrayal and mishandling of this project.

Wetgorilla

 

[Milkman95]

^Don't be so sure - MSJ got another chance with Ghost Rider after all.............

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Ya know, the worst part...

spoilers








....is when he decides to call himself Dr. Doom and he actually mentions the videogame "Doom".

You have to hear it to believe it.

Weeellll....I have to admit...this (and some of his other dialogue in the novel) made me wince literally.

These are reasons why I regret that they made this an origin film to begin with. They should've just followed 2000's X-Men formula and started in the present with everything already situated. They still could've had a successful trilogy with simply having origin flashbacks in the first film.

But we'll see how it looks on screen. I'm going to hope against hope it looks better than it reads.

But you're right Sardaukar...the verbiage for him is dumbed down for the everyday-folk.

 

[GoblinScrier]

Surely, he doesn't say that for real ? In the making of book in the script section, he just says "and the names Dr. Doom" now. Casual, not "the Doom video game crap."

 

[Herr Logan]

Ya know, the worst part...

spoilers

....is when he decides to call himself Dr. Doom and he actually mentions the videogame "Doom".

You have to hear it to believe it.

Sweet crispy Jesus in a frying pan...

That's it. I will not feel a shred of guilt from this point on when I tell those repulsive little sycophants exactly what they are when they get in my face and lie to me about Movie!Doom. I'm so God damn sick of this place and its glorious displays of cowardly deception from gullible plebeians.
Cut off from humanity, I couldn't begin to imagine how people can honestly treat the non-existent mystery surrounding a $hittily adaptated sci-fi flick as if it were actually rocket science. All I have to do is come here, and I'm instantly reminded that's it's actually possible.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Surely, he doesn't say that for real ? In the making of book in the script section, he just says "and the names Dr. Doom" now. Casual, not "the Doom video game crap."

God, I hope not Goblin. I am really hoping that's just David's intrepretation of the script--because there are many things in the novelization that are not fleshed out at all in the drafts I have, including much of the verbiage.

I mean, seriously--the scripts are around 100 single-pages, and the novelization is hundreds of pages in length, so David had to beef it up somewhere.

 

[Herr Logan]

Believe it. It's one of those things that sounds so stupid, it has to be true.

I'm not totally sure he's going to say it in the movie, but it is in the book. And I don't know why Peter David (the author) would just add a thing like that in there if he didn't have to.

In that case, it's not actually in the movie. Regardless, this is Peter David's way of telling the audience how stupid this revamp is. I've read his other movie novelizations, and he has a blatant tendency to comment on the failures in storytelling through narration. He did it several times in "Hulk," "Spider-Man 2," and I think the Punisher as well, but I don't remember. Right now, I'm in the chapter of "Fantastic Four" where Reed, Sue and Johnny step out of a cab on the bridge. I'm dreading every chapter, knowing I'll see something even more hideous regarding Lex Luthor/Movie!Goblin/Ultimate Doom as I keep reading.

These people have utterly failed us. I had gotten to the point where I expected nothing but failure in superhero adaptations for this summer and everything beyond, but I still predicted that "Batman Begins" would be better than "Fantastic Four" by necessary default. What really pisses me off is that it wasn't just "better." Anything would have been better. But despite my expectations, "Batman Begins" was actually "good." I haven't been this jazzed about a superhero movie post-viewing in years, and now it's only deepened my sorrow over the other franchises that are custom-made to be watered-down crap. Even the highs turn into lows when it comes to this fandom here. Wonderful.

 

[Herr Logan]

I'd like to know what Peter David was thinking as he adopted that **** script. He had to be rolling his eyes every 5 seconds.

He definitely was. See my last post.

The thing is, Peter David writes the character of DDINO very well in some ways (up to Chapter 10, anyway), but that could only be true if you accept that the villain is an extremely petty, shallow, weak-willed puddle of piss. Granted that, and he's well-written, but not well-conceived in the least.

 

[Herr Logan]

But I don't know if the book really makes sense in places. What is Johnny doing at a Motocross track? Don't you have to be a genuine professional to do that kind of thing, not a part-time astronaut?

Plus, I really didn't like the origin of their powers...

Steam + cosmic rays=invisibility?

Reaching for something + cosmic rays= stretching powers?

I don't know...

If anyone considers that a true explanation-- and a valid one at that-- then they are truly beneath contempt. I assumed in the book that this was merely Peter David's way of killing time with symbolism (he has about a million character/power allusions before they actually go into space), but if this ends up being vocalized in the movie itself, then that will be great for me. I love seeing these idiots on a "realism" kick get proven wrong, even if they're too cowardly to admit it.

 

[Herr Logan]

IMO, after this movie tanks due to the flawed characters and weak script, the idea of another FF film being made will be slim to none (at least for another fifteen years or so). Hopefully the producers will see that this film wasn't given a Parisian welcome and move onto other franchises.

With any luck, Tim Story and the rest of the creative team won't be commissioned to deface any other comic movie in the future. I think the momentum of the fan base is beginning to recognize the betrayal and mishandling of this project.

Wetgorilla

I have no reason to believe this movie will tank in terms of financial success. "Spider-Man 2" had a disgustingly awful script and forfeited almost every opportunity for good storytelling present, and that was a hit at the box office. If there is any kind of corrollation between creative success and financial success, it's not a causal one.

 

[Head>On<Collider]

So it sounds as if with the flick just days away, the reason to read the book now would be just to get the enjoyment of having Peter David's writing sauce up the otherwise bad tasting story? Is that the only way to get entertained by this fim? Damn! I guess it's all up to the eye candy now....
I haven't even read it yet, nor have I planned on doing so.... but correct me if I'm wrong, but .... I don't really see too many changes made since I read the Frost script, and the main things (like the bridge scene where they save a bunch of NYers from something they, the F4 caused themselves in the first place, yet were considered heroes for it anyway..) that gave me a jaundiced eye for this film is still there. The Doom mess ups are still there, and now I hear the dialogue is bad? First that and now this? Umm.... well..... I'm sure there will at least eye candy and some stuff about the movie I'll at least appreciate, but it just doesn't sound or look like the F4 movie we were all meant to get..

 

[Milkman95]

^Why do you think Fox has been marketing the eye candy? The dialogue was determined a long time ago to be sub-par, even by the biggest FF fans.......

 

[Head>On<Collider]

^Why do you think Fox has been marketing the eye candy? The dialogue was determined a long time ago to be sub-par, even by the biggest FF fans.......

The first trailer said, "you know that looked cool..." I said it then, I say it now... it was a bad sign, just like the Frost script.

 

[Milkman95]

^I guess they just tried to make things more fun, being that ROTS, BB, and WOTW were darker in nature............

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

^I guess they just tried to make things more fun, being that ROTS, BB, and WOTW were darker in nature............

Yeah, but those three movies got a BIG huge thumbs up from their fans, and from the critiques, and were all acclaimed.

Seeing those movies felt like an event, and since I was a fan of the three franchises, it was a blast for me.

I'm just as much a fan (if not more) of Doom and the FF than those 3 franchises. And yet, the movie sure as heck didn't received the same treatment then those other 3 did. If you were a fan of spielberg or the book war of the worlds, you know you can only feel excitment when you read critics that says the movie is one of the best you can find in sci-fi these days. And fans of the book have been raving about how great it is. I mean, THAT is exciting for me. I can't wait to see it. It truly feels like an event, a lot like Lord of the rings felt not so long ago. Heck, even Romero fans got (and I am one of those) their own "event". We got what we wanted, even if it wasn't on par with his other movies.

Same thing happened with Batman and ROTS.

But you won't find this much excitement among Doom fans, unfortunately. And most FF fans are usually saying "we won't get the best FF movie we could have, but at least it will be a fun ride". Well, we SHOULD be getting the best FF movie, just like war of the worlds, ROTS and BB felt like dreams come true for each fans of their franchise.

I guess what i'm trying to say, is that i'll take dark movies from great filmmakers who treat with respect what they are adapting, over Tim Story and co. who's only agenda seems to destroy the character of Doom, and direct a movie the same way they'd direct an american pie feature.

It's... depressing.

(worse, looking at the new trailer of King kong, as a big Kong fan, I see a franchise who once again, this year, gets the respect it deserves, by having a great director directing it, and one heck of a team and a budget to boost. And it pays! My god does it look fabulous! Now, look at the reaction of the Kong fans who saw that trailer, we are all amazed by it! Even the non-kong fans are intrigued. THAT'S what an adaptation should do. And then look at the Doom and FF fans. And how that particular franchise is treated. And don't tell me it's getting the treatment it deserves. The FF and Doom are such a great franchise they should be getting a movie as good as BB, ROTS, WoTW and kong. Easily.)

 

[Milkman95]

^Superb post, and I agree. Man, I wish Christopher Columbus would have ended up directing FF, that would have been a true classic. If it was at Fox back then, now I understand why he bailed. Same with Peyton Reed.......Wasn't the Scooby Doo director Raja Gosnell attached at one point?

The word is respect for the source material..........

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

^Superb post, and I agree. Man, I wish Christopher Columbus would have ended up directing FF, that would have been a true classic. If it was at Fox back then, now I understand why he bailed. Same with Peyton Reed.......Wasn't the Scooby Doo director Raja Gosnell attached at one point?

The word is respect for the source material..........

Is Fox able to do that ?

Fox seems like one of the worst company out there. They don't take risks anymore with their big movies. Heck, their movies doesn't even feel big anymore.

Look at New line with the lord of the rings trilogy, now THAT was a huge ****ing risk. Or Sony with Spider-man. Big movie! Huge!

Or now Universal. They gave everything Jackson asked for, for his remake. And it sure won't backfire in their face.

What did Fox do ? They hired a director they could control, with no power or vision, who would direct in the same way an american pie director would. They went with a cast of TV actors, which cost them nothing. They got a pretty face for Doom, who'll overreact, it seems, judging by the first reviews. They put EVERYTHING in the script that makes the "general audience" feel well. A dumbed down villain, their love story, heck, if I didn't know the FF, i'd say this felt like the biggest copy their is. There's even crap dialogue and horrible one lines, with no maturity behind it all, only dumb fun. And FF always felt huge to me, more than just "fun and dumb". At least, for me.

Fox went the easy way with this adaption, and we'll get an average movie, that might make them some easy cash. It feels a lot like Aliven Vs predator, actually.
And guess who produced AvP ? Yep, Fox.