Comics I am enraged (Feel free to merge this)

[Themanofbat]

Making THAT mistake is WAY out of character. From day one, he's been obsessed with hiding his identity. He's hidden it from people he knew he could trust, like Gwen and Captain Stacy. He never even revealed to MJ. It happened by accident. And he knows the danger in revealing himself. He's got far too huge an enemies list to take such a thing for granted. Hell, look at all he's been through over the years simply because ONE villain knew his secret. Now he's going to take his chances with the entire world?

And I'm sorry, but May and MJ written in character would never go for this. Again, they know not only the danger to themselves, but to Peter and life as they know it by Peter revealing his secret. And what about the danger to people who have no say in this? The children at the school he teaches at? his colleagues at the Bugle and every friend he has. Yes, Peter makes mistakes. But Peter is not- I repeat- IS NOT THIS STUPID. Based on what we're given here, Peter was more mature and intelligent as a teenager than he is now.

And this is made even worse by the fact that we know he's going to turn-around. That means all the evidence was right in front of him and he didn't even bother to look it through carefully. This is life and death- many lives at stake, and yet he took it far too lightly.

Read my response to Chris... it explains TO ME why he made such a decision.

Peter was under a lot of pressure, and Tony wasn't exactly giving him any breathing room to think about it, knowing how important it was to have such an everyman super-hero like Spidey on the Pro-Side. And it didn't help, as I've stated in another post, to have Aunt May, his only living relative whom he loves so much, give him her blessings. Think about all the guilt he's carried over the years about his tragedies because he's Spider-Man... and he could never confide any of that with teh one person on the planet who he loves so much... to hear HER utter those words of blessings must have been such an overwhelming weight removed from his shoulders, and maybe the feeling of how "right" it was to hear those words made him lose track of reality. As I've said before, people who live life of tragedies have a harder time dealing with tremendous "feel good" moments like Aunt May's blessing to Peter. He's not thinking how many times he's outsmarted Doc OCk, he's not thinking where they'll live in 30 years, he's just thinking "After a decade of guilt and hiding, my loving Aunt May has told me it's ok and do the right thing". And even after he does it, he's still having lingering misgivings... as the Peter Parker we've all come to know all the years would.

 

[Dragon]

Why would Peter believe that Tony is corrupt?

Peter has been a loner and mistrustful for far too long. If he were going to err- he'd err on the side of caution.

He's an old friend and ally, and as seen in recent issues, Peter certainly doesn't think of himself as a sidekick, nor should we have ever believed that.

Tony Stark isn't quite an old friend. They've fought side-by-side in the past, but have only really recently developed a relationship. He's had a longer standing relationship with Captain America, in terms of comaraderie that goes beyond the battlefield. And Cap's defection from the status quo should have clued Spidey that something might be amiss. At least that he should look a little more carefully before betting the farm and many lives on Stark. Especially since Stark flip-flopped on the issue to begin with.

But if we examine how it came to be that he reluctantly chose to reveal himself, it makes a lot of sense.

I honestly don't see what the big deal was that drove Peter to this momentous decision. Superheroes doing crazy crap and endangering lives is nothing new. And Peter in particular revealing his identity with again- the lives of others being effected will not change that problem. Super villians/ superheroes that are iffy will always exist. There's no way to contain that.

And just like the american military is finding out, SHIELD can't possibly police the entire world.

But then again, some people like to scream "Foul!!!" before actually thinking about it for a moment.

And for the record Dragon, that last line wasn't directed at you, for I know that you're pretty good with your Spidey stuff, and I can't expect you to like everything in a Spider-Man book, just like I can't either. I just didn't want you to take it the wrong way.

Cheers...

I'm not. Nor am I saying that anyone who is cool or "wait-and-see" about this is evil. But I do feel that this is Marvel further damaging this icon. There can be so much retconning before he's totally sunk.

 

[Themanofbat]

For those who don't know, the 'Tardie Awards (my own invention) are held for "Outstanding excellence in the field of mental ******ation and overachieving stupidity", and the Golden Helmet is the top prize.

Did you create this award to explain certain events of your youth?

 

[stillanerd]

Making THAT mistake is WAY out of character. From day one, he's been obsessed with hiding his identity. He's hidden it from people he knew he could trust, like Gwen and Captain Stacy. He never even revealed to MJ. It happened by accident. And he knows the danger in revealing himself. He's got far too huge an enemies list to take such a thing for granted. Hell, look at all he's been through over the years simply because ONE villain knew his secret. Now he's going to take his chances with the entire world?

And I'm sorry, but May and MJ written in character would never go for this. Again, they know not only the danger to themselves, but to Peter and life as they know it by Peter revealing his secret. And what about the danger to people who have no say in this? The children at the school he teaches at? his colleagues at the Bugle and every friend he has. Yes, Peter makes mistakes. But Peter is not- I repeat- IS NOT THIS STUPID. Based on what we're given here, Peter was more mature and intelligent as a teenager than he is now.

And this is made even worse by the fact that we know he's going to turn-around. That means all the evidence was right in front of him and he didn't even bother to look it through carefully. This is life and death- many lives at stake, and yet he took it far too lightly.

And worse yet, after all this Civil War mess is over, Peter's identity is still going to be public which means, that unless Marvel does some serious hat tricks, one of the elements of Spider-Man that attracted readers to the character in the first place--that behind the mask is a relatively ordinary guy with a relatively ordinary life apart from his other one as a superhero--is no longer there.

Yes, we know that Peter from time to time seeks acceptance and wants to be respected, but would he seriously sell-out his principals and unmask and as a consequence put his loved ones, friends, and colleagues at risk of mortal danger from every two-bit thug and super-powered villain with a grudge for the sake of being accepted--much less a high-tech super powered suit. NO FRIGGIN' WAY! One of the mainstays of Spider-Man was that, even though he wanted respect, he still did things in a heroic way regardless of however the public thought of him simply because it was the right thing to do. Which is what a hero is.

 

[Chris Wallace]

The day just got sadder.

 

[Gregatron]

If you feel that new ideas, be them good or bad ideas, but at least "new" ideas, have no place in comics, then by all means, by a bunch of Essentials and re-read the same old stories over and over again.

Ive not been a big fan with some of the events in the Spidey-Books over the last few years, but at least someone wants to try something different.

If things were to remain the same, we'd still be reading about a Flash named Jay Garrett, a Robin still teenaged by the name of Dick Grayson, a Batman who's married to Selina Kyle, a Sue & Reed Richards with no children, an X-Men team with no Wolverine, a living Gwen Stacy, no Venom (no symbiote suit), etc...

This Civil War idea is a pretty good one because it pits long-time friends against one another where I hope that the ripples keep going for a long time afterwards. The Marvel Universe has always been about growth and change. Sure, we've praised some change, like the death of Gwen Stacy, Venom, etc... but when bad changes occur, we cry foul and say stupid things like the aforementioned "<fill in the blank, ad nauseum> have no place in superhero comics, and that's the rock-bottom truth of it."

I'm sorry to tell you that Marvel comics are about change. Does that mean you can liek all of them, or that I will like all of them? Of course not.

I hated the fact that Spidey got a black symbiote costume in 1984. But did I boycott comics? No. Do I like the current direction in the Spidey books as of late? Not overwhelmingly. But I can see the pressure that Peter was facing when his friends and loved ones were telling him it was the right thing to do and that it was ok, and I can understand why he chose to unmask himself... he's never had the reasssurance of Aunt May on any of his super-hero decisions, and when she gave him her blessings, it was probably a tremendous weight lifted off his shoulders... and that m'boy, was great and proper use of character development.

However, I can't tell you what to like and dislike in your comics. As I've stated prior, if you want to read stuff that you're familiar with, there are plenty of back issues and reprint material that can satiate your need with familiarity. But I've read all those books before... some I love, some not so much... but I want to see where the story moves onward.

Cheers...

If you get bored, move on. Don't take these characters away from future generations because you insist on growth and change in order to maintain your own interest in the material.

 

[Gregatron]

Did you create this award to explain certain events of your youth?

Feel your head. Your may find a helmet-like item atop it.


The illusion of change is what Marvel used to be about. Stan Lee did not demolish the foundation of a character every other month.

 

[Cullen]

I still can't help but feel the whole situation feels forced. It works better than "Sins Past" or "The Other", but that's not saying much.

I've mentioned this before, but had this storyline popped up before all the other nonsense, I might have rolled with it. Right now it seems like just another stunt.

 

[Gregatron]

"Drrrrr....Petey like Goldun Hellmutt! Me use it as kink-toy in beeed with Em-Jay! Me thn use armies-spike to get em-jayto go 'ohhhhhh, Petey! You da best!'. And den me go kill more vampires in trenciecaots! Me bite faces goodie! Grrrrr!"

 

[Gregatron]

The day just got sadder.

"Why youse sad? Petey just get brund-new hellmutt! It shinny! It sold in 27 variaunts! Big salees! Crack internutz in halff!"

 

[Chris Wallace]

And some of you think this is just some "anti-change" rant. It's not. We accepted the "hard-luck kid who can't get a girl to save his soul" marrying the supermodel, didn't we? I personally have been defending organic webbing for 4 years, AND I was fine w/Spidey joining the Avengers...at FIRST. Now I see it as one more stage in the deevolution of my favorite character.

 

[Cullen]

And worse yet, after all this Civil War mess is over, Peter's identity is still going to be public which means, that unless Marvel does some serious hat tricks, one of the elements of Spider-Man that attracted readers to the character in the first place--that behind the mask is a relatively ordinary guy with a relatively ordinary life apart from his other one as a superhero--is no longer there.

Yes, we know that Peter from time to time seeks acceptance and wants to be respected, but would he seriously sell-out his principals and unmask and as a consequence put his loved ones, friends, and colleagues at risk of mortal danger from every two-bit thug and super-powered villain with a grudge for the sake of being accepted--much less a high-tech super powered suit. NO FRIGGIN' WAY! One of the mainstays of Spider-Man was that, even though he wanted respect, he still did things in a heroic way regardless of however the public thought of him simply because it was the right thing to do. Which is what a hero is.

Why does none of this surprise me?

 

[Themanofbat]

Peter has been a loner and mistrustful for far too long. If he were going to err- he'd err on the side of caution.

While always a loner, Peter hasn't been all that mistrustful for years... in my opinion.

Tony Stark isn't quite an old friend. They've fought side-by-side in the past, but have only really recently developed a relationship. He's had a longer standing relationship with Captain America, in terms of comaraderie that goes beyond the battlefield. And Cap's defection from the status quo should have clued Spidey that something might be amiss. At least that he should look a little more carefully before betting the farm and many lives on Stark. Especially since Stark flip-flopped on the issue to begin with.

Besides the Human Torch, Iron Man made the most appearances in the original MTU 150 issue run...

I know what you're saying, but let's remember... Tony knew what was happening before Steve did, and he had an opportunity to take advantage of Spidey's important role in all this registration act. And as I stated, he worked Peter hard without giving him much room to think, and once he committed, he's a man of his word. And even now, early in the game as it were, we see that he does have a hard time dealing with his decision.

I'm not a big fan of all this, but I can see some potential to this story. And I'd rather enjoy something with an occasional roll-my-eyes look on my face than to just be angry with comics.

Hopefully, at the end of the day, we all come out of this with a good feeling of having read some good adventures of our favorite wall-crawler.

Cheers...

 

[Chris Wallace]

If you get bored, move on. Don't take these character away from future generations because you insist on growth and change in order to maintain your own interest in the material.

Good point. Goes right back to what I was saying about them stripping away everything we ever loved about the character.

 

[stillanerd]

The day just got sadder.

You're talking about

Spoiler

Spider-Man attacking Captain America

in Civil War #3, right?

Why does none of this surprise me?

Because we have become disillusioned cynics, perhaps?

 

[farmernudie]

I agree with Dragon.

From Day one Spidey has always been about protecting that identity of his. Forever he has been about that. He has spent so much time on these thoughts in fact, it is not funny. He wants to protect people, and that is why he has so much "heart". He puts others and their safety first.

When something is that important to you, as with the history of this character, you do not just throw it all away on a whim. Nor would he expose himself because Iron Man of all people "pressured" him (and because aunt may then "agreed" and "encouraged" Pete.)

Whatever. That is not just a "mistake" by Pete.

It is a mistake my Joey Q. who allowed it. They coulda pantsed 100 other characters in Cival War and gotten a better point across. No matter how they (joey and writers) try to "rationalize" why Pete was specifically the one who had to be "it", ...it doesn't make any sense, and is another dumb move made to make money.

The writers concocted this pure and simple...not out of character driven history or for the love of the character or to give something back to us Spidey fans...but to sell Cival War. In fact, they keep slapping us long term Spidey fans in the faces with their stories recently it seems. It is like someone is just daring Spidey writers to come up with some real unbelievable crap for stories to see how much far-flung crap they can get away with and some collecters will eat up. It's almost been like a bad prank gone wrong,...and for far too long...trying to totally alter Spider-man into pure cheese. I don't know Spidey anymore. I don't rationalize it as "oh, Spidey made a mistake this month in Cival War". I look at it, pause.....,and wonder if this is a evil new clone story waiting to burst out down the road. Is it an evil cone trying to ruin Spidey or the writers?

Maybe next year, to solve this, Peter will join Fantastic Four, and get a sex job, breast implants, etc, after being "pressured" by the Thing. (And "encouraged" by "Aunt May", of course.) Then he can become the next Spider-Woman, and Marvel can even milk a new costume event outta it too!! Then Petewyn can regain a "secret" identity and all will finally be be well in the Spidey Totem Pole Universe. Oh, and Mary Jane won't want him/her anymore, so she'd be out of the picture, and they wouldn't have to kill her that way, to appease MJ fans too even! (Please JMH, if you are reading don't really use this idea to fix things!)

I mean, sadly, things have gotten so silly really, that nothing would surprise me in a Spider-"Man" comic anymore. Nothing is sacred. They'll do anything for some short term bucks and short term fans. These dumb storylines they crank out aren't tributes to us fans or the character by any means.

One can write anything that ignores logic, character history, and good taste. It takes more to take the time to write something respectful, fits in with continuity yet still is creative. More time then whats needed for a title relaunch, a new series, or announcement of someones new 12 issue run.

 

[Chris Wallace]

"Why youse sad? Petey just get brund-new hellmutt! It shinny! It sold in 27 variaunts! Big salees! Crack internutz in halff!"

I'm sad because I'm forced to admit that I agree with Dragon for once. I guess it was bound to happen.

 

[Gregatron]

"Durrrr! Uncy Ben and Aunties Em-May so prowd! Me dun good! Me can't wait for funner adventuires in futture! What nexxt?"

 

[Chris Wallace]

You're talking about

Spoiler

Spider-Man attacking Captain America

in Civil War #3, right?

No.

 

[Dragon]

And worse yet, after all this Civil War mess is over, Peter's identity is still going to be public which means, that unless Marvel does some serious hat tricks, one of the elements of Spider-Man that attracted readers to the character in the first place--that behind the mask is a relatively ordinary guy with a relatively ordinary life apart from his other one as a superhero--is no longer there.

Yes, we know that Peter from time to time seeks acceptance and wants to be respected, but would he seriously sell-out his principals and unmask and as a consequence put his loved ones, friends, and colleagues at risk of mortal danger from every two-bit thug and super-powered villain with a grudge for the sake of being accepted--much less a high-tech super powered suit. NO FRIGGIN' WAY! One of the mainstays of Spider-Man was that, even though he wanted respect, he still did things in a heroic way regardless of however the public thought of him simply because it was the right thing to do. Which is what a hero is.

How many great Spidey stories ended with Peter/Spidey walking/swinging off alone, because he chose to follow his conscience rather than doing that which would make him appear "heroic" to the crowd? This is what made him the great character he is.

 

[Norman Osborn]

I've mentioned this before, but had this storyline popped up before all the other nonsense, I might have rolled with it. Right now it seems like just another stunt.

It does actually seem like another stunt, but it's a stunt that thus far I'm enjoying...hence I buy it. However it'll take some massive retconning to make me even consider picking up an ASM, SSM or FNSM title again......I simply can't justify buying titles that have, day in and day out, been lackluster at best and absolutely brutal at worse.

Off topic question (Technically it's on topic but this thread has gone so far off topic I felt an addendum was in order )

Why the hell is Speedball being portrayed as a hero??...or at least as a heroic figure in all of this?.....the kid moved his charges against a group of super villains that he knew were out of their league...hell the guy on the mic in CW1 even tells him that one of those villains had taken down the Hulk at one time?

To me, his character is less about "standing up for himself" (as was inferred in the 1st post here) and more about a punk kid who didn't learn his lesson, a kid who feels "zero" remorse for his actions, actions that precipitated the events in Stanford.

...Am I the only one confused by this guys characterization?

 

[Gregatron]

How many great Spidey stories ended with Peter/Spidey walking/swinging off alone, because he chose to follow his conscience rather than doing that which would make him appear "heroic" to the crowd? This is what made him the great character he is.

"Petey swing into swingerz bar with Em-Jay now! That get hot action for Petey and fanz who like jerrk-off! Petey don't not teach con-sciense at skool. It dumb. Only hyype and gwoth and change good!"

 

[Cullen]

Because we have become disillusioned cynics, perhaps?

And here I was thinking it was because I was wise.

 

[Cullen]

It does actually seem like another stunt, but it's a stunt that thus far I'm enjoying...hence I buy it. However it'll take some massive retconning to make me even consider picking up an ASM, SSM or FNSM title again......I simply can't justify buying titles that have, day in and day out, been lackluster at best and absolutely brutal at worse.

Off topic question (Technically it's on topic but this thread has gone so far off topic I felt an addendum was in order )

Why the hell is Speedball being portrayed as a hero??...or at least as a heroic figure in all of this?.....the kid moved his charges against a group of super villains that he knew were out of their league...hell the guy on the mic in CW1 even tells him that one of those villains had taken down the Hulk at one time?

To me, his character is less about "standing up for himself" (as was inferred in the 1st post here) and more about a punk kid who didn't learn his lesson, a kid who feels "zero" remorse for his actions, actions that precipitated the events in Stanford.

...Am I the only one confused by this guys characterization?

If you're enjoying it, that's great. I just wish I could.

Retcon, what a wonderful word...

 

[Gregatron]

(Note from Gregatron: So sorry for the glut of replies, but Petey is really excited about winning the Golden Helmet. He just wants to spout out nonsense like so many others on the Internet.)


"Yay! Petey wanny wipe azz wit Am-ay-zingg Fantessy nummer fiteen! It crap! Joey Q sez so! He say that fSpiey never been betterz than he be rihgt now! Win big awardz, get biggest hyype! JMZ is grat writerrr! Petery dAvids is great writerrr! Hre make so many jokkes! Spideys-men never better than he be now! Petey happey! Fanboyz happie!"