BOUGHT/THOUGHT Thread for 6/14/06: SPOILERS Inside!

[Kool-Aid]

Could be but I bet that honor will go to IC#7 with the First Superman dying and Superman losing his powers for a year. I think that may do it or any one of the IC titles because you killed off Lois and Superboy.

Yes i did, next is Batman.

 

[Dread]

Heres the thing, why burden the reader with more mini's when they can just carry on the story within the ongoing books it affects? Yeah 'Son of M' was a welcome suprise, but that to me was a fluke. Just like Marvel Zombies was a fluke, all the mini's do is eat a hole in our pockets more.

What happen in Son of M could have been done in Uncanny or adjectiveless X-men or better yet a book that's really suffering like Thing,Runaways,or MTU.

Luke would know how to get the common man (whose not a hick from Kentucky) to back him up, but I still see Luke as the likely betrayer to Cap. I see it coming for some reason maybe his new wife and child?

I hope to god, someone like RedSkull or Hell maybe Hate-Monger is behind this. I needs my villians.

Me too. Thankfully, Millar seems to be heeding the call as CIVIL WAR #5 seems "set to explore what the villians do", according to both new cover art released and some words Millar said in WIZARD 2 months ago. Apparently, Spider-Man's decision to reveal his identity publically, indeed, makes his enemies' jobs easier. He may end up being the "cationary tale" behind the anti-SHRA movement. I'd worry about MJ biting the bullet, as Joe Q seems to hate any superhero who is married (people are fearing Reed & Sue may be due for a divorce; Namor has his fingers crossed), but considering that SPIDER-MAN 3 is less than a year away, I know Marvel's too much of a ****e for their own movies to risk knocking her off at this point, despite Millar's perchant for shock value (at times).

But, as I said before, Cap's squad doing some "pre-emptive captures" of supervillians (Vulture, Grim Reaper, Trapster, and some 13 more that Hill acknowleged) may help stem the tide for a short while. Although what's interesting is that before CW, if Vulture whined about the government "is supposed to do something about these vigilantes", people'd just laughed; after CW, Vulture could have a good shot at suing the U.S. if he wanted, or "cutting a deal" with the feds to hunt down some superhero tail. Considering that the government in Marvel has been all but willing to throw "pardons" or "agent badges" at any ol' supervillian who agrees to play puppet, from the Thunderbolts to Mystique to Venom to even Sabretooth, I'd be disappointed if we didn't see some villians profitting from this shift in priorities for Marvel's gov't.

I could see Panther not choosing sides publicly, but secretly supporting one side on the sly. most likely Captain America's. as Panther and Iron Man have been at odds several times in the past.

And especially since Black Panther was apalled at Iron Man's "Illuminti" grouping and refused to be a member or allow them to gather in Wakanda. Surprise surprise, two members of that group (Stark and Reed) are leading the pro-SHRA movement.

On the other hand, in recent years, Black Panther has been made into more of a spy and "someone with an alterior motive for his own mission", not unlike Batman, than he was before (when he'd join the Avengers simply because of something "childish" like being impressed with Capt. America's honor or something). And he's and Marvel are also busy with Storm's wedding and convincing us that it "makes sense" by embellishing and retconning in elements to a MTU #100 backstory.

But as you say, it may be likely that Black Panther will side with Cap rather than Iron Man. As deemar325 noted, many of Marvel's black heroes have already affiliated themselves with Cap's rebellion already. A shame that NEXTWAVE is making characters like Photon and Machine Man look like nothing but laughing stocks, because I'd be interested on some of their takes on SHRA.

which is a major issue for me is why wasnt Captain America called to speak infront of the Senate???? How long did the Steroids in baseball hearings go for and they pretty much called everyone????? The US government is gonna outlaw superheroes and they dont call in their greatest hero. It's like if DC did the same and the only hero they called to testify was the Question.

The thing is, as BrianWilly and I have noted a few times, the fundamental difference between DC and Marvel at this point is how superheroes are seen by the government and the public eye. In DC, longtime sun-drenched heroes are respected and honored; the gov't even taken some expenses to help RECOVER some in the wake of IC. Marvel, in contrast, tends to have a world that is suspicious and distrustful of superheroes; even the bright "sun-drenched" faces like the Avengers can be turned into outright criminals by even the smallest of circumstances (a factiod I am surprised that evil shapeshifters or disguise artists don't exploit more often; in this day and age, Chameloan could impersonate Cap and ruin his good name for YEARS). In DC, superheroes are celebrities in some fashion, which in some ways one could argue takes them out of the "average joe" arena. Marvel wants to keep their heroes, by and large, more "down to earth" and hence why they aren't afforded as much celebrity status or respect. Granted, considering anyone named Kennedy could get away with anything in America, the notion that someone who's been a longtime hero since WW2, captured countless villians and saved thousands of lives wouldn't be afforded at least SOME degree of respect politically is also a bit of a fantasy. But the medium requires some suspension of disbelief.

Marvel's also been committed to doing their universe different than DC does, for better or worse. That doesn't mean both can't shamelessly rip off the other to sell books, though.

 

[PWN3R]

Ultimate X-Men #71

Some of Kirman's dailogue was lol great. But for some reason this issue reminded me of X3's Phoenix, and X3's Phoenix kinda sucked.

Oliver is alot better on the art than his first issue IMO, still isn't my thing, but its ok. So the Hellfire Club is making a comeback in Astonishing, and the last page of this issue says the same for the Ultimate Universe......

Ms Marvel #4

Best issue of the series yet. Issue #2 was so dailogue lite, and #3 felt the same. Thankfully this issue has a great story about The Traveller(from HoM reality) going after Carol. She ask's for Dr. Strange's help, but he gets owned.

I was kinda loosing interest in this book, this issue brought me back.

Squadron Supreme #4

This book is good, but some of the things are annoying. Like over the top Christian guy, c'mon JMS......

Good issue, liked the HitchHiker's Guide joke.

Civil War #2

Yeah well Steve McNiven owns, his art is just . This was a great issue, used all the characters well, and it was cool seeing the YA get rescued. This is shaping up to be a great story. The whole thing with Spidey, even though I knew it was coming, for some reason it was still WTF!

I mean, my gut instinct doesn't like him unmasking, but as long as it has consequences and story, and not another retcon, then I'm good.

Great week, and to think, this time next week.......ULTIMATES 2 #11 WILL BE OUT!!!

 

[gildea]

edit

 

[deemar325]

Me too. Thankfully, Millar seems to be heeding the call as CIVIL WAR #5 seems "set to explore what the villians do", according to both new cover art released and some words Millar said in WIZARD 2 months ago. Apparently, Spider-Man's decision to reveal his identity publically, indeed, makes his enemies' jobs easier. He may end up being the "cationary tale" behind the anti-SHRA movement. I'd worry about MJ biting the bullet, as Joe Q seems to hate any superhero who is married (people are fearing Reed & Sue may be due for a divorce; Namor has his fingers crossed), but considering that SPIDER-MAN 3 is less than a year away, I know Marvel's too much of a ****e for their own movies to risk knocking her off at this point, despite Millar's perchant for shock value (at times).

But, as I said before, Cap's squad doing some "pre-emptive captures" of supervillians (Vulture, Grim Reaper, Trapster, and some 13 more that Hill acknowleged) may help stem the tide for a short while. Although what's interesting is that before CW, if Vulture whined about the government "is supposed to do something about these vigilantes", people'd just laughed; after CW, Vulture could have a good shot at suing the U.S. if he wanted, or "cutting a deal" with the feds to hunt down some superhero tail. Considering that the government in Marvel has been all but willing to throw "pardons" or "agent badges" at any ol' supervillian who agrees to play puppet, from the Thunderbolts to Mystique to Venom to even Sabretooth, I'd be disappointed if we didn't see some villians profitting from this shift in priorities for Marvel's gov't.


And especially since Black Panther was apalled at Iron Man's "Illuminti" grouping and refused to be a member or allow them to gather in Wakanda. Surprise surprise, two members of that group (Stark and Reed) are leading the pro-SHRA movement.

On the other hand, in recent years, Black Panther has been made into more of a spy and "someone with an alterior motive for his own mission", not unlike Batman, than he was before (when he'd join the Avengers simply because of something "childish" like being impressed with Capt. America's honor or something). And he's and Marvel are also busy with Storm's wedding and convincing us that it "makes sense" by embellishing and retconning in elements to a MTU #100 backstory.

But as you say, it may be likely that Black Panther will side with Cap rather than Iron Man. As deemar325 noted, many of Marvel's black heroes have already affiliated themselves with Cap's rebellion already. A shame that NEXTWAVE is making characters like Photon and Machine Man look like nothing but laughing stocks, because I'd be interested on some of their takes on SHRA.

The thing is, as BrianWilly and I have noted a few times, the fundamental difference between DC and Marvel at this point is how superheroes are seen by the government and the public eye. In DC, longtime sun-drenched heroes are respected and honored; the gov't even taken some expenses to help RECOVER some in the wake of IC. Marvel, in contrast, tends to have a world that is suspicious and distrustful of superheroes; even the bright "sun-drenched" faces like the Avengers can be turned into outright criminals by even the smallest of circumstances (a factiod I am surprised that evil shapeshifters or disguise artists don't exploit more often; in this day and age, Chameloan could impersonate Cap and ruin his good name for YEARS). In DC, superheroes are celebrities in some fashion, which in some ways one could argue takes them out of the "average joe" arena. Marvel wants to keep their heroes, by and large, more "down to earth" and hence why they aren't afforded as much celebrity status or respect. Granted, considering anyone named Kennedy could get away with anything in America, the notion that someone who's been a longtime hero since WW2, captured countless villians and saved thousands of lives wouldn't be afforded at least SOME degree of respect politically is also a bit of a fantasy. But the medium requires some suspension of disbelief.

Marvel's also been committed to doing their universe different than DC does, for better or worse. That doesn't mean both can't shamelessly rip off the other to sell books, though.

CW#5? Cool! we need some villain action, so you think MJ is headed for a 'Dirtnap'? I wouldn't mind, but I know it's not something that should be done.

BlackPanther may just be the one to turn the tide in Cap's favor, that is if Millar follows continuity/logic and plays up BP and Tony's antagonistic relationship.

Luke Cage = Traitor.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Supreme Power: MY FRIGGIN' God. Does EVERY ADAMANT CHRISTIAN have to be evil/hypocritical? Can we not see ONE, I'm just asking for ONE positive, christian rolemodel in comics? I mean, okay, so there are bad christians out there, but come on! why is it only the bad ones are getting publicity?

I just read it and I totally agree. Now we've got a Christian who's a domestic abuser. Great way to represent us

 

[Dread]

CW#5? Cool! we need some villain action, so you think MJ is headed for a 'Dirtnap'? I wouldn't mind, but I know it's not something that should be done.

BlackPanther may just be the one to turn the tide in Cap's favor, that is if Millar follows continuity/logic and plays up BP and Tony's antagonistic relationship.

Luke Cage = Traitor.

I'm actually hoping Cage isn't the traitor. I mean, the street-wise ex-con? Too predictable.

I actually doubt Marvel would want to kill off MJ or Aunt May at this point, considering they've tried doing both years ago, and regretted both actions (May's death was revealed with a Mackie retcon, and MJ's death also became a conveluted mess to mark the end of the pre-JMS era). Plus, SPIDER-MAN 3 will be in theatres in less than a year, and Marvel's been keen to ape the movies lately, especially with Spider-Man (organic webbing anyone?). The pair could be IN DANGER, however, and if Millar really wanted to kill off someone, Spidey has more friends than just those two. Betty? Flash? Liz? etc. I'd rather they not, because frankly death is getting SO played out in comics over the past 2-3 years its not even funny anymore, but who knows.

 

[deemar325]

I'm actually hoping Cage isn't the traitor. I mean, the street-wise ex-con? Too predictable.

I actually doubt Marvel would want to kill off MJ or Aunt May at this point, considering they've tried doing both years ago, and regretted both actions (May's death was revealed with a Mackie retcon, and MJ's death also became a conveluted mess to mark the end of the pre-JMS era). Plus, SPIDER-MAN 3 will be in theatres in less than a year, and Marvel's been keen to ape the movies lately, especially with Spider-Man (organic webbing anyone?). The pair could be IN DANGER, however, and if Millar really wanted to kill off someone, Spidey has more friends than just those two. Betty? Flash? Liz? etc. I'd rather they not, because frankly death is getting SO played out in comics over the past 2-3 years its not even funny anymore, but who knows.

Hmm? Betty Brant would have some impact if she died I think.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Where did this traitor business come from; this official?

 

[Dread]

Where did this traitor business come from; this official?

Not sure. I suppose every team has an obligatory traitor at some point.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Yeah, it's gettin a bit cliche though.

 

[deemar325]

Where did this traitor business come from; this official?

Newsarama, has been talking about someone betraying Cap.

 

[Dread]

Newsarama, has been talking about someone betraying Cap.

I see. I usually read Comics Continuum, not Newsrama, so I hadn't heard that. Or remembered it.

As Spoons said, it is a tad cliche, though. But it could also add heat to THIS particular story (hence why overplaying certain plot points is bad; in stories where it is efficient, it looks more overdone than it deserves).

 

[deemar325]

I see. I usually read Comics Continuum, not Newsrama, so I hadn't heard that. Or remembered it.

As Spoons said, it is a tad cliche, though. But it could also add heat to THIS particular story (hence why overplaying certain plot points is bad; in stories where it is efficient, it looks more overdone than it deserves).

Or it's a ploy by Marvel, too throw us a curveball.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Maybe the traitor will be a quadruple agent like Spiderwoman with SHIELD and Hydra.

 

[NinjinSteve]

In one of the recent Joe Fridays columns over at Newsarama didn't Joey Q say that regarding ending Peter and MJ's marriage that DEath and divorce were both not an option?

 

[deemar325]

Maybe the traitor will be a quadruple agent like Spiderwoman with SHIELD and Hydra.

Ahh!! Head hurts!

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Ahh!! Head hurts!

Yeah, Cap shoulda killed her a long time ago

 

[deemar325]

Yeah, Cap shoulda killed her a long time ago

It would be too obvious.

Spider-woman? Nah?

 

[Shadowknight]

This is the third month in a row I've bought an issue of Spider-girl. I generally avoid DeFalcos work because outside of his run on Spider-man in the 80s, I've found him to be a terrible writer (ex: most of the MC2 line and Fantastic Four). But this.... is good?! He's apparently deciding to finish up Spider-girl with an arc involving Hobgoblin and the Scriers, they of the horrible clone saga era.

Hobgoblin is written as being intelligent and dangerous in this issue. I'm not a fan of incredibly dark storyline, but having him merely give a severe beating to a bunch of people he was asked to kill was hard to swallow. On the otherhand, despite appearing to be "on the ropes" at the end of the issue, he actually set up Kaine and Spider-gril for a fall. Venom and Spider-man are heading to help out, and the Black Tarantula ia apparently going to kill a large number of Scriers to save Spider-girl.

Again, I'm confused how DeFalco is writing a GOOD story with intelligent villians, but there you go.

 

[Marcdachamp]

This is the third month in a row I've bought an issue of Spider-girl. I generally avoid DeFalcos work because outside of his run on Spider-man in the 80s, I've found him to be a terrible writer (ex: most of the MC2 line and Fantastic Four). But this.... is good?! He's apparently deciding to finish up Spider-girl with an arc involving Hobgoblin and the Scriers, they of the horrible clone saga era.

Hobgoblin is written as being intelligent and dangerous in this issue. I'm not a fan of incredibly dark storyline, but having him merely give a severe beating to a bunch of people he was asked to kill was hard to swallow. On the otherhand, despite appearing to be "on the ropes" at the end of the issue, he actually set up Kaine and Spider-gril for a fall. Venom and Spider-man are heading to help out, and the Black Tarantula ia apparently going to kill a large number of Scriers to save Spider-girl.

Again, I'm confused how DeFalco is writing a GOOD story with intelligent villians, but there you go.

I highly recommend the rest of the series. It's very good stuff.

Luke Cage as a traitor? Well, the only traitor I've heard of is on the Pro side, and that looks to be Sue Richards and/or Spider-Man.

As for the IC/CW debate... I'm admittedly not a big fan of Crisis. It was far too convoluted, the art was rushed (so much so that DC is supposedly "fixing" it for the HC), the story was weak and the ramifications weren't nearly as major as DC would have had us believe. I remember picking up Issue One and thinking "Wow, this could change the fabric of the DCU for years to come!". Instead, we saw minor characters get their heads blown off and incredibly minor continuity changes (did anyone really want Wonder Woman to be a founding JLAer again? Surely this was to appease the old-school DC loving Meltzer).

With Civil War, we have an intriguing philosophical debate. I feel like this is the kind of story that publishers are often afraid to tell. Marvel can't simply make things exactly as they were after Civil War. It's not possible. And, as scary as that seems, it's also wonderful. I've sung a lot of praise for Daredevil lately because the writers have sacrificed status quo for storytelling and the result has been one of the finest reads on the market. Imagine replicating that feeling in all of Marvel's books.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I agree that the left bias is getting VERY annoying. I don't mind a political message once in a while, but at least TRY to get a balance, otherwise it comes off as your personal soap box when I just want to read the characters I love.

You're damn right. The bias has made the Pro-Registration side come off as complete ***** (particularly Iron Man and Mr. Fantastic). The only book that hasn't done that is Amazing Spider-Man.

 

[BlackSymbiote]

I usually love everything Kirkman does, but the Magician is just getting on my nerves. I hate characters who are all power. He's a Deus Ex Machina to the extreme (which would be a no pun intended if Vaughn were still on). I just hope Kirkman has SOMETHING big planned for him.

 

[gildea]

I just read it and I totally agree. Now we've got a Christian who's a domestic abuser. Great way to represent us

aren't many of the marvel heroes christian?

Pretty sure cap is and spidey.

 

[SonOfCthulhu]

aren't many of the marvel heroes christian?

Pretty sure cap is and spidey.

EDIT: Never skip to end of thread and start replying. Already posted. Sorry.