Okay okay. Mr.Trump, I'm not in economics class I know how this stuff works! Yes you pay someone for services but you have to respect the person you are paying for said services expertise. I'm not saying producers should have no say.
This is what we get when production companies give a guiding hand:
This is what we get when the director has 100 percent control and no feedback what so ever:
Youre taking my word out of context and trying to spin me as a Raimi fan boy/romanticizor just to discredit my perfectly valid opinion. I know that directors having total control is not the way to go, but they should definitely have the most. If my teeth hurt and I go to the dentist I can tell him not to look in my nose, at the same time if he says I need a route canal I'm not going to tell him no a filling will do just fine.
Raimi shouldnt have been forced to squeeze Venom in at the last minute and he shouldnt have be told to squeeze in the Vultress either. I'm not going to have this argument though because thats now what I made this thread about.
The fact is the franchise wasnt dead and there was no reason to reboot it. It'd be one thing if Marc Webb was giving us something new but were getting another ****ing origin story. Pretend we're not talking about Spider-Man and pretend the 4th movie never existed or got canceled. In fact lets use the Batman Reboot planned as an example.
Now I'm not going to count the Adam West Batman film, because thats a completely different portrayal, but after the Batman reboot is released will we have had 3 ****ing Batman franchises. At what point are we going to get tired of seeing the same damn thing cycling every few years. Bruce Wayne is still Batman, Joker is still crazy, etc.. Chris Nolans series is very different than Burton and Schumachers but it's still very similar because its about the same people. Eventually there will come a point when these stories will lose value because we've already seen it done twice before.
Yes I know reverting to Marvel would result in ANOTHER reboot,
BUT THAT WAS NOT WHY I SAID I WANTED THAT TO HAPPEN. Get off your high horse and realize that its cheap that instead of coming out with new ideas all that hollywood gives us is Spider-Man...again, and Batman...yet again, and Superman...third tries the charm! I know Ghost Rider sucked, but I respect Fox for not just taking the easy route and starting over like the first one never happened.
Did you not read anything I commented? Did you not understand?
I'm gonna lay this out for you now so we never have to revisit this subject again because you obviously have some misconceptions over this situation, like most do. The decision to reboot ultimately had nothing to do with money in the grand scope. It was about knowing what was gonna make a great, and yes marketable, film. Period.
To start, let's be clear. Sony did not force Venom on Sam Raimi. Yes, Sony and, particularly, Avi Arad urged Sam Raimi to use Venom instead of the Vulture. Why? Because they knew the villains Raimi had chosen were not going to bring the wide appeal like a much known villian would. As you mentioned, the original villains that were chosen for SM3 were Sandman, New Goblin, and most notably, The Vulture. Not that these characters are bad but lets face, the Vulture wasn't going to bring in the crowds in swarms like Venom or the Lizard (Both highly anticipated villains that Raimi had no intent of ever using) would.
No matter how you put it, everyone knows The Vulture is a goofy character concept. Period. I'm sure critics and fans alike would have given him flack over a elderly man with wings flapping around New York City. Does that mean Raimi didn't have a great vision for the Vulture? No, but if The Vulture was being prepared to be a a secondary villain in the film, the concept couln't have been the best which lends to the idea of how good he woukd have been as the main villain in Spider-Man 4 BUT I'll get to that later. Overall, Sony was in now way wrong to urge Raimi to reconsider.
Now as far as Raimi "hating" Venom goes, let get this straight, he never hated the character. As we all know, Raimi is a huge fan of Spider-Man, however, just the 60s and 70s runs. Sam Raimi was not a fan of the 80s and 90s runs but not because he didn't like them. He just didn't read them or use them so he really wasn't aware of what went on with the storyline of the time or what characters were of big influence during those runs, particularly Venom. Raimi knew of Venom but outside of the way Venom looked and of course how popular he was, Raimi knew nothing of him. Now at the repeated urging of Sony and Avi Arad, he looked into the character and became interested in his story and then decided to use him. Why? Because he genuinely liked the character and wanted to use him.
Raimi, on his own will, decided to use Venom because, ultimately, he didn't have too and maybe he shouldn've because as we know, Venom was sub-par.
Whose fault was it though? Sony's? No, It was Raimi's. As much as we want to defend him (let's face it, we all love Raimi, even its a little), it was Raimi's fault. Raimi could've done much better with the character but he didn't. It may have been because of the limited amount of time he had to refine his script after he decided to use Venom but honestly who knows. What we do know is that the director has final say over what the final result is and is this case, Raimi was that director. No matter how much we don't like to admit it, Raimi was at fault. Period. Case closed.
Now, on the subject of The Vulture in SM4, Sony knew it wasn't going to work. Believe it or not, these movie studios pay attention to our complaints and Sony is one who does. Sony knew that the driection Raimi was getting ready to take the franchise, whether it would be financially successful or not, was going to be bad in terms of quality. With each film Raimi made, the stories distanced themselves from the core Spidey mythos. Sony knew this and, in an act that mayor may not have been low, had a script treatment for a reboot put into development.
I personally have said it before. The Raimi Spider-Man series really had nothing left. If Sony let it continue it would have been simply for monetary purposes and not for the sakr of making quality films and believe it or not, Sony is that greedy. Sony and the Marvel Producers on the project knew it was time to cut ties with Raimi and perhaps they did do some underhanded thing as far as the scripting for SM4 goes but who knows for sure, that's all ultimately left up to speculation until Raimi or someone comes forth with the details.
Ultimately, there is no reason for anyone to harbor bad blood towards Sony Pictures and Marvel Entertainment. The decision to reboot was not out of greed but it was becuase it was simply what needed to be done and I'm personally damn happy they did it. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Raimi films and still do to this day, even despite the fact the they haven't aged to well and of course 3 (though I do like 3 personally), but the time was all to right for a reboot and we shouldn't hold a grudge towards just because Tobey, Kirsten, and Sam won't be back. It's stupid, childish, and pointless. Move one. That series was great but it had some pretty glaring flaws from the beginning and going foward wouldn't have been seen as much other than Sony trying to capitolize on something that obviously peaked in terms of quality a long time ago.
Like or not, the reboot is what needs to be done and damn good for Sony and Marvel Entertainment (not Studios) for going forward with it. The reboot is much more of a positive then good. It's going to be much more faithful to the source in a way the Raimi films never were and never would have been and it simply will and must be better.
You should reevaluate you hatred because you and many, MANY other seems to want to point out every reason in the book for why you hate the reboot and why Sony's wrong for doing it when there's one simple reason that every detractor, every hater, and simply anyone who still wanted a another Raimi film:
You loved the Raimi Films and weren't ready to let go.
There's nothing wrong that with because honestly, at first, were all were a little but saying you hate this reboot and hope it fails is childish and stupid because if this reboot fails, there's just gonna be another one. So, for your sake and everyone else's, heed Ivan Vanko's advice and "Don't get so attached to things. Learn to let go."
Also, whether you or anyone else who keep saying the Raimi franchise wasn't dead, listen here. The franchise was in fact dead wheter you want to accept it or not.
Could they have made for films? Yes but what would have been the point?
The main storyline of the series (The Goblin story) had ended with Harry's death in three and ALL of the biggest selling villains had been killed off (unceremoniously) already.
Going foward, there would have been no motive for continuing the franchise except for
making money and massaging Sam Raimi's ego by letting him continue and create his good but very flawed interpretation of the Spider-man characters.
It was the right thing to do. The series would have started over soo wheter we liked it or not. Tobey and Kirsten weren't and aren't getting any younger and fans had already made known there numerous issues with there performances and portayal of the Spider-Man characters.
Also, I will admit this. Part of the reason Sony wanted to reboot was in fact because of money, but it
wasn'tbecause they were being greedy or money hungry.
If you didn't know, Sony is in a HUGE financial bind right now. Sony Pictures is nearly on the verge of shutting down shop for good and, whether you get it or not, rebooting the Spider-man series is what needed to be done if Sony Pictures was gonna save itself.
Sony was gonna be stretched virtually beyond its means trying to make SM4. Not only was Sam Raimi demanding they give him a big budget so that he create Avatar level 3D aerial scenes with The Vulture and Spidey, Tobey was under contract to be paid
50 million dollars for Spider-man 4 and Spider-man 5, for a total of
100 million.
Sony may have used some rather dubious means of getting the reboot to come to fruition, pretty much forcing Raimi out by limiting the budget and forcing dumb rewrites knowing he and Tobey with him would leave but you have to understand that it had to be done. Period. You may not like it but letting go and understanding and respecting it will make life much easier.
We would have never gotten another Spidey film. At least a quality one had they gone through with otherwise.
Yes, the rights would have gone back to Marvel and you say it would have been better that way but do honestly think it would have been better when they don't have much of an interest in having that character under Marvel Studios?
Marvel Studios's MCU franchise is based on having shared universe, something neither Marvel nor Sony have an interest in doing with the Spider-man character.
Of course why they would like to have the film rights back, Marvel has gone on the record as saying they don't mind having Sony continuing to make Spider-Man films.
Marvel has the merchandising rights and Sony has the films rights. All is good in the Universe. No need to shake that up. Plus, having Spider-man under Marvel Studios would drive attention away from the character rather than towards it and ultimately towards
ANOTHER REBOOT.
You're arguing against the alleaged pointlessness of the reboot but you want it the rights to go back to Marvel so that they can do the character right....
THAT'S WHAT SONY IS DOING. That's one of the main reason sSony is rebooting if not
the main reason. Contrary to popular belief, studios, especially Sony, listen to us when it comes to these characters. We all had an numerous complaints about the Raimi series, SM3 in particular, so why wouldn't Sony want to start over and have it right from the get go?
You seem determined to hate on this reboot and blame it all on corporate greed and I was that way too but you need to understand that that is not what it is and there's reasons why this stuff has been done.
Besides, why hate on this reboot? Its bringing us a portrayal of the Spider-man character that's much closer to the character. Why despises that and build up films that didn't?
Also, you may complain about the reboot being too soon and that there's no reason for us to see the origin again but get real. We are going to see the origin again anytime new media of it comes out. Look at how many times we've seen the origin of Batman portrayed again? Too many times to count.
People, like you, may complain about the origin being showed again but ultimately that doesn't matter. What mattersk, is the film being good and respecting the source material that made it possible for it to be made.
Stop being so angry about the reboot and sit back and enjoy it. You'll be happier in the long run.
) is ready to unleash his vision. I'm all for it.
