The Dark Knight Rises I will answer this question one day. But not today.

[Alonsovich]

Si, es buenísimo Bats! Encuentro fantástico que todavía no entiendas el final después de cuatro años. BRAVO.

Fixed...

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Thats all good and fine but why didnt Nolan answer the question then... My point is if it was a simple answer he would have answered the question as oppose to saying "i will answer this question on a future date". BTW he answered every other question that night except this one.

Because Ramirez isn't really dead. The numbers don't add up. Also, I'm beginning to suspect that Dent himself would be one of the victims. Because if you think about it, the dialogue was how Dent's work would be undone if the public knew about his descent into madness. Knowing that a city councilman, with Dent's reputation, went looney tune and committed suicide would be appalling in the courts. The prisoners would move for mistrial and go out because the prosecutor's crazy. The possibility of the fifth victim being Dent is ever increasing.

We have 1. Wuertz (Cop),
2. Maroni
3. Maroni's driver
4. Ramirez (Cop) / The Cop at the Gen. Hospital 1 / Hos Cop 2
5. Harvey Dent / Maroni's Guard / The Barkeep

And I don't think Nolan messed up or anything, he seems to be the kind of director who is conscious of all aspects of the script. If anything, it's like he's doing with the Anne Hathaway cast - the answer's obvious, but if the fans are struggling to figure it out, hey why not let them? At the end of the day the fans interpret the work, it's what we understand that gives the narrative true meaning, and Nolan respects that. Hell, he toys around with that. He's always left his movies for the audience to interpret.

Now then, lets go interpreting. Do we have NINE possible victims altogether I think the answer would be who would TWO-FACE kill, not who died around him. The Joker-murders can be implicated back to him, without the need of a public outcry. I mean, we have that psychopathic clown there for a reason right?

 

[The Guard]

This always seemed like a silly thing to waste time worrying about, to me. The only thing this line did for me in the movie was to make me realize that The Joker had apparently only killed five people recently in the movie.

Bah.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

This always seemed like a silly thing to waste time worrying about, to me. The only thing this line did for me in the movie was to make me realize that The Joker had apparently only killed five people recently in the movie.

Bah.

Huh?

 

[Nave 'Torment']

This always seemed like a silly thing to waste time worrying about, to me. The only thing this line did for me in the movie was to make me realize that The Joker had apparently only killed five people recently in the movie.

Bah.

So why are you here wasting time discussing it? Oh and it was never about the Joker, it was about BATMAN KILLING FIVE PEOPLE.

You can run and tell that.

Homeboy.

 

[aandfrugby25]

Hmm sad to see a thread die without any real resolution.

 

[RustyCage]

This always seemed like a silly thing to waste time worrying about, to me. The only thing this line did for me in the movie was to make me realize that The Joker had apparently only killed five people recently in the movie.

Bah.

He wasn't talking about the Joker...

 

[humanist]

I have always thought the simplest explanation was that Gordon was a bit of an unreliable narrator. His statement was based on the incomplete information available to him at the time. Not everything a character says in a book, movie or tv shows should be taken as the absolute truth.

 

[aandfrugby25]

I have always thought the simplest explanation was that Gordon was a bit of an unreliable narrator. His statement was based on the incomplete information available to him at the time. Not everything a character says in a book, movie or tv shows should be taken as the absolute truth.

I have no problem with how it can be explained in the movie. This thread proves that there can be several explanations. My whole point is why did Nolan give such a cryptic answer if it wasnt important. BTW he answered every other question straight forward that night.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

aandfrugby25, I think several people already answered your query... why bring it up again? And the thread isn't closed. For some reason people aren't interested in the discussion anymore haha.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Chris Nolan is not Hideo Kojima. He will not waste his time explaining trivial s*** for his final movie.




......Nanomachines!

 

[aandfrugby25]

Chris Nolan is not Hideo Kojima. He will not waste his time explaining trivial s*** for his final movie.




......Nanomachines!

Except he spent a whole night answering trivial questions including why the joker uses knives which is an even more trivial question... but sure whatever.

 

[Banana-Hotdog]

Chris Nolan is not Hideo Kojima. He will not waste his time explaining trivial s*** for his final movie.




......Nanomachines!

Really? He answered somebody's question about why the Joker likes to use knives.

I'm sure that he'll address the whole "5 Dead Question" in TDKR but there really isn't any discussion left for this. It's pretty much all been covered. We can argue all day about who the 2 cops are but until Rises comes out, we're never going to have a definitive answer. I think the point of this thread is to see if we think Nolan will address the "5 Dead Question" in Rises and since Batman is currently on the run... I think it's pretty obvious that he has to. It's not like the movie is going to open with Gordon meeting with Batman next to a lit Bat Signal.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Which leads me to wonder exactly how this movie will open... at least for that visual cue of the bat-symbol? I know it's almost impossible to come up with an answer since we don't know what an overriding theme will be (though we can always speculate that it'll be about Batman coping with having being branded as a greater evil than the ones he set out to stop, or his 'break' down), but anyway lets continue with what this thread is about.

Batman doesn't really 'need' to address the issue of "how many deaths I am guilty of" because it could very well start off as a film where the Batman is simply accused of being a greater evil. You don't necessarily need to go back to the Two-Face murders because this would be about the effects of those murders, not the causes. But I'm sure Nolan will answer the question because he did promise he would.

 

[iamcitizen]

Batman doesn't really 'need' to address the issue of "how many deaths I am guilty of" because it could very well start off as a film where the Batman is simply accused of being a greater evil. You don't necessarily need to go back to the Two-Face murders because this would be about the effects of those murders, not the causes. But I'm sure Nolan will answer the question because he did promise he would.

I'm sure there will be at least a brief mention, like a newscaster saying "The Batman is still wanted in connection with six murders" or something to that effect, in order to remind the less-nerdy members of the audience how the last film ended.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Does anyone get the impression that for Nolan this is more like homework? I mean, he originally didn't want to make the movie, made 'promises' to address issues from the last film, came out to address how "my brother's doing a really good job with the script", missed on the November deadline, keeps saying how in a while he'll be "Really busy"...

nah, i'm just being paranoid here.

 

[the amazing fro]

Does anyone get the impression that for Nolan this is more like homework? I mean, he originally didn't want to make the movie, made 'promises' to address issues from the last film, came out to address how "my brother's doing a really good job with the script", missed on the November deadline, keeps saying how in a while he'll be "Really busy"...

nah, i'm just being paranoid here.

Hmmm that's an interesting (and quite frankly scary) thought.

Nolan doesn't seem like the guy to sacrifice artistic integrity for monetary gain but did he feel perhaps obliged to do it for the studio or the audience?

Yes we are more than likely being paranoid but its not outside the realms of possibility.

 

[Gianakin_]

Yeah, right, like he originally didn't want to make TDK. That's all crap that Nolan usually says. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Nevincer]

Does anyone get the impression that for Nolan this is more like homework? I mean, he originally didn't want to make the movie, made 'promises' to address issues from the last film, came out to address how "my brother's doing a really good job with the script", missed on the November deadline, keeps saying how in a while he'll be "Really busy"...

nah, i'm just being paranoid here.

I've actually been pleasantly surprised with Nolan's optimism for this movie. I think I can speak for everyone that loved TDK when I say we'd be more than satisfied if Nolan gave us a solid third entry instead of trying to top the last one like so many directors attempt and fail to achieve by the third movie. Still, the vibe I get from a lot of Nolan's interviews is that he's game for this one to surpass or be on par with TDK, unless he's been told specifically to say this to generate greater interest in the movie.

 

[Doctor Who]

Well since dent made her trick gordon's wife, then it raises the question of what she was doing with two-face. You're right that they wouldn't be able to convict her of anything, but word would probly get around.

I think Gordon will be capable enough after Dent's death to investigate further into Internal Affairs and track down that it was Ramirez; after that leaks, I think who's ever left of the mob will finish her off. Or at least, that's what I think would be justice enough; just as long as it's bloody and her badge tagged to her brain. I'll try not to get my hopes too high though.

 

[moe]

Hmmm that's an interesting (and quite frankly scary) thought.

Nolan doesn't seem like the guy to sacrifice artistic integrity for monetary gain but did he feel perhaps obliged to do it for the studio or the audience?

Yes we are more than likely being paranoid but its not outside the realms of possibility.

well, hearing how excited wally and zimmer were when nolan told/gave them the script... i am not that worried about him half-assing it and getting outta the contract.

its nolan... he may not enjoy making 3 movies about one topic... but he wouldn't sell it short... he wouldn't do that to Bale and the rest of the cast.

 

[moe]

I think Gordon will be capable enough after Dent's death to investigate further into Internal Affairs and track down that it was Ramirez; after that leaks, I think who's ever left of the mob will finish her off. Or at least, that's what I think would be justice enough; just as long as it's bloody and her badge tagged to her brain. I'll try not to get my hopes too high though.

one of gordon's plot lines may be cleaning up his force... he probably saw that his action "to make due" with the people around him cost Dent and Rachel their lives... and he may go hard after corrupt cops...

 

[Nave 'Torment']

But if he's been told to say such and such from the studios, he'd be pulling off cheesy one-liners like "THIS IS GOING TO BE TERRIFIC" or something along those lines. Think about the way some of the ways Marvel Studios are promoting their films. Not I don't believe that it won't be, just speculating.

Nolan is a big-time Batman fan, and even though he represses his enthusiasm during interviews, it shows both in his work as well as his love of the characters. So in a way he's as much of a freak about this as we are. On the other hand, I can see how he might feel obliged to make a third film, but I'm certain he wouldn't have come into this if he didn't have a good idea or a very strong confidence with his work. This is the guy who put off Inception for 10 or so years just to get it right. Even if there was pressure for the third film, there isn't necessarily a deadline (not that I'm aware of at least, correct me if I'm wrong). So, yeah I hope we're paranoid. Which, amazing fro, is ALWAYS IN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY.

PARA - NOID

 

[Nave 'Torment']

well, hearing how excited wally and zimmer were when nolan told/gave them the script... i am not that worried about him half-assing it and getting outta the contract.

its nolan... he may not enjoy making 3 movies about one topic... but he wouldn't sell it short... he wouldn't do that to Bale and the rest of the cast.

I agree with you.... but didn't Jonah Nolan sell Bale short in TAHMINATAH 4? Or was that a rumour and it was Bale's bloated ego that ruined the script?

one of gordon's plot lines may be cleaning up his force... he probably saw that his action "to make due" with the people around him cost Dent and Rachel their lives... and he may go hard after corrupt cops...

Of late, there's this nagging feeling I keep having that Bruce has been way more affected by Harvey's death than Rachel's. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Oh and I take my comment back - writing Catwoman will never, ever, be like doing homework. :P