The Dark Knight i will get FA-LAMED for this but i think Robin SHOULD be in film 3!

[StorminNorman]

Skip Batgirl - go straight to the Orical. You can continue the Babs/Grayson tension there - just dont have Babs actually working on the streets, make her the eyes and ears for the Batman from the start.

 

[AnimeJune]

Batman needs some women.

Batman needs some parents, is what he needs. Dude's a poor little rich boy sitting in his basement playing with his toys and crying about why life's unfair. Enough with the emo, Batman! Go out and save lives!

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Batman needs some parents, is what he needs. Dude's a poor little rich boy sitting in his basement playing with his toys and crying about why life's unfair. Enough with the emo, Batman! Go out and save lives!

Batman is not emo. Batman by way of Tim Burton is emo. But Batman is not emo.

Don't ever say that again.

 

[AnimeJune]

Batman is not emo. Batman by way of Tim Burton is emo. But Batman is not emo.

Don't ever say that again.

I was unclear, sorry. I mean Batman with Robin is emo. You know, that whole soppy "connecting-over-loss" crap. "Gee, you saw your parents killed in front of you? So did I!" "Let's share in our pain!"

Batman needs solitude (and yes, the occasional woman, he's got needs), so that he can be the dark borderline insane "hero" we all know and love.

 

[The Kid]

Batman needs some women.

of the feline type perhaps???

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I was unclear, sorry. I mean Batman with Robin is emo. You know, that whole soppy "connecting-over-loss" crap. "Gee, you saw your parents killed in front of you? So did I!" "Let's share in our pain!"

Batman needs solitude (and yes, the occasional woman, he's got needs), so that he can be the dark borderline insane "hero" we all know and love.

I see you've never read a Batman comic before.

 

[Logan Howlett]

Ok leme go through MY idea for Dick in Begins one more time.

I think that either in 2 or 3, Dick grason should be presented as somewhere around 18 or 19. He could be a young man raised by a family of circus preformers. He's been trained all of his life as acircus trapeize artist/gymnist. However, Dick does not want to go into the family buisness, he wants to pursue some other course of life, be it music, or art, or something that every teenager wants to be. Hes rebelious and headstrong, and constantly in fights over petty things, like namecalling or a dirty look. But after finding out that his father has some sort of sevier illness and wants Dick to take over the family buisness when he passes, Dick reluctantly gives in. (or perhaps forget that small part and move directly into this) Late one night Dick's family are slain while preparing for their next act in thier tralier, Dick was not with them because he blew them and the preformance off for a date with a girl. After this Dick turns inward, he is now filled with anger, and guilt. Guilt because he believes he should have been there, maybe he could have stoped it, or maybe he feels that HE should have died in their place. Now he has cosen to focus this anger to kill those responsible for his families death. He trains himself harder and faster than he ever did as a child or teenager. He mixes his gymnastic routines with what he knows of fighting, essentialy creating his own unique style. Now he dons a black (maybe black and red) biker jacket, and a black or red mask (almost resembeling Jason Todd's look when he returned), a pair of regualr (or spandex for movement) bluejeans, and black steel toed boots. He begins making his way through the criminal underworld executing his own brand of justice, and trying to find his parents murderers. At this time the local new starts doing stories on him and title him "The Robin" for his agility and grace reported by witnesses. About this time Bruce would catch wind of this and make an effort to find this guy. Perhaps Bruce does, they square off and Dick either is a good match for him, or is MUCH more than Bats expected and Dick hands his ass to him. The next time around Batman is now more prepared and returns an asskicking to him HARD! He tells Dick that he knows who he is, and why he is doing what he is doing, then offers him the oportunity to come with him, to train with him and in time find his parents killer together. For Bruce it would almost feel like getting the retrebution he never could since Joe Chill was murdered. At first Dick declines, but after realizing that A. His life in a crappy old trailer SUX! B. That He could do alot with Bruces money and C. The more training he can get the better. Now Dick is fitted with another survival suit from Wayne Enterprises such as the one Bruce made the Batsuit out of, makes a black mask to cover the basic eye (and possibly forehead area) and asks Dick what he wants as his symbol, explains why he chose the bat as his own, and also explains that the name ROBIN isn't very threatening. Dick chooses to make the name NIGHTWING and design his own symbol (resembeling more of the current Nightwing look were the symbol is not technicaly a bird) Now Dick is very threatening looking, perhaps has about shoulder length hair as many teenagers do, and it plays well with the costume, and help to conceal his facial features. About this time he and Bruce figure out who killed his parents (be it joker, two face, crime lord, etc.) and he is now faced with the choice of killing him. Batman does his best to guid him, maybe he kills him maybe he doesn't, but in the end he is even more ****ed up than before. Maybe at this time NIGHTWING decides to go his own way, fight for himself for a bit, or maybe he stays, I'm still not sure, but either way THIS idea, IMO, is very realistic and takes away all of the comic campyness of the past and completly avoids the Shumaker version of Robin as played by Chris O' Donnel.

Well, there it is, hope ya like it!

No one let me know what they thought of my idea.......

 

[Keyser Sushi]

No one let me know what they thought of my idea.......

Ever heard of paragraphs? Normally they are three to four sentences long and are used to divide a bit of writing into separate thoughts.

 

[Logan Howlett]

I was in a rush when I wrote this, hence the lack of paragraphing. Why, do you need me to???????

 

[AnimeJune]

I see you've never read a Batman comic before.

Nope, never have. Well wait - I might have gotten one out of the library by accident, oh wait, that was an issue of "The Huntress". But she was the daughter of Batman, wasn't she? Heh.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I was in a rush when I wrote this, hence the lack of paragraphing. Why, do you need me to???????

Not unless you want me to read it.

 

[Logan Howlett]

Ok, hope this is easier to read





I think that either in 2 or 3, Dick grason should be presented as somewhere around 18 or 19. He could be a young man raised by a family of circus preformers. He's been trained all of his life as acircus trapeize artist/gymnist. However, Dick does not want to go into the family buisness, he wants to pursue some other course of life, be it music, or art, or something that every teenager wants to be. Hes rebelious and headstrong, and constantly in fights over petty things, like namecalling or a dirty look. But after finding out that his father has some sort of sevier illness and wants Dick to take over the family buisness when he passes, Dick reluctantly gives in. (or perhaps forget that small part and move directly into this)

Late one night Dick's family are slain while preparing for their next act in thier tralier, Dick was not with them because he blew them and the preformance off for a date with a girl. After this Dick turns inward, he is now filled with anger, and guilt. Guilt because he believes he should have been there, maybe he could have stoped it, or maybe he feels that HE should have died in their place. Now he has cosen to focus this anger to kill those responsible for his families death.

He trains himself harder and faster than he ever did as a child or teenager. He mixes his gymnastic routines with what he knows of fighting, essentialy creating his own unique style. Now he dons a black (maybe black and red) biker jacket, and a black or red mask (almost resembeling Jason Todd's look when he returned), a pair of regualr (or spandex for movement) bluejeans, and black steel toed boots. He begins making his way through the criminal underworld executing his own brand of justice, and trying to find his parents murderers. At this time the local new starts doing stories on him and title him "The Robin" for his agility and grace reported by witnesses.

About this time Bruce would catch wind of this and make an effort to find this guy. Perhaps Bruce does, they square off and Dick either is a good match for him, or is MUCH more than Bats expected and Dick hands his ass to him. The next time around Batman is now more prepared and returns an asskicking to him HARD! He tells Dick that he knows who he is, and why he is doing what he is doing, then offers him the oportunity to come with him, to train with him and in time find his parents killer together. For Bruce it would almost feel like getting the retrebution he never could since Joe Chill was murdered. At first Dick declines, but after realizing that A. His life in a crappy old trailer SUX! B. That He could do alot with Bruces money and C. The more training he can get the better.

Now Dick is fitted with another survival suit from Wayne Enterprises such as the one Bruce made the Batsuit out of, makes a black mask to cover the basic eye (and possibly forehead area) and asks Dick what he wants as his symbol, explains why he chose the bat as his own, and also explains that the name ROBIN isn't very threatening. Dick chooses to make the name NIGHTWING and design his own symbol (resembeling more of the current Nightwing look were the symbol is not technicaly a bird) Now Dick is very threatening looking, perhaps has about shoulder length hair as many teenagers do, and it plays well with the costume, and help to conceal his facial features.

About this time he and Bruce figure out who killed his parents (be it joker, two face, crime lord, etc.) and he is now faced with the choice of killing him. Batman does his best to guid him, maybe he kills him maybe he doesn't, but in the end he is even more ****ed up than before. Maybe at this time NIGHTWING decides to go his own way, fight for himself for a bit, or maybe he stays, I'm still not sure, but either way THIS idea, IMO, is very realistic and takes away all of the comic campyness of the past and completly avoids the Shumaker version of Robin as played by Chris O' Donnel.

Well, there it is, hope ya like it!

 

[AnimeJune]

Ok, hope this is easier to read





I think that either in 2 or 3, Dick grason should be presented as somewhere around 18 or 19. He could be a young man raised by a family of circus preformers. He's been trained all of his life as acircus trapeize artist/gymnist. However, Dick does not want to go into the family buisness, he wants to pursue some other course of life, be it music, or art, or something that every teenager wants to be. Hes rebelious and headstrong, and constantly in fights over petty things, like namecalling or a dirty look. But after finding out that his father has some sort of sevier illness and wants Dick to take over the family buisness when he passes, Dick reluctantly gives in. (or perhaps forget that small part and move directly into this)

Late one night Dick's family are slain while preparing for their next act in thier tralier, Dick was not with them because he blew them and the preformance off for a date with a girl. After this Dick turns inward, he is now filled with anger, and guilt. Guilt because he believes he should have been there, maybe he could have stoped it, or maybe he feels that HE should have died in their place. Now he has cosen to focus this anger to kill those responsible for his families death.

He trains himself harder and faster than he ever did as a child or teenager. He mixes his gymnastic routines with what he knows of fighting, essentialy creating his own unique style. Now he dons a black (maybe black and red) biker jacket, and a black or red mask (almost resembeling Jason Todd's look when he returned), a pair of regualr (or spandex for movement) bluejeans, and black steel toed boots. He begins making his way through the criminal underworld executing his own brand of justice, and trying to find his parents murderers. At this time the local new starts doing stories on him and title him "The Robin" for his agility and grace reported by witnesses.

About this time Bruce would catch wind of this and make an effort to find this guy. Perhaps Bruce does, they square off and Dick either is a good match for him, or is MUCH more than Bats expected and Dick hands his ass to him. The next time around Batman is now more prepared and returns an asskicking to him HARD! He tells Dick that he knows who he is, and why he is doing what he is doing, then offers him the oportunity to come with him, to train with him and in time find his parents killer together. For Bruce it would almost feel like getting the retrebution he never could since Joe Chill was murdered. At first Dick declines, but after realizing that A. His life in a crappy old trailer SUX! B. That He could do alot with Bruces money and C. The more training he can get the better.

Now Dick is fitted with another survival suit from Wayne Enterprises such as the one Bruce made the Batsuit out of, makes a black mask to cover the basic eye (and possibly forehead area) and asks Dick what he wants as his symbol, explains why he chose the bat as his own, and also explains that the name ROBIN isn't very threatening. Dick chooses to make the name NIGHTWING and design his own symbol (resembeling more of the current Nightwing look were the symbol is not technicaly a bird) Now Dick is very threatening looking, perhaps has about shoulder length hair as many teenagers do, and it plays well with the costume, and help to conceal his facial features.

About this time he and Bruce figure out who killed his parents (be it joker, two face, crime lord, etc.) and he is now faced with the choice of killing him. Batman does his best to guid him, maybe he kills him maybe he doesn't, but in the end he is even more ****ed up than before. Maybe at this time NIGHTWING decides to go his own way, fight for himself for a bit, or maybe he stays, I'm still not sure, but either way THIS idea, IMO, is very realistic and takes away all of the comic campyness of the past and completly avoids the Shumaker version of Robin as played by Chris O' Donnel.

Well, there it is, hope ya like it!

Ow, my ADD is kicking in. Is there a Coles Notes version of this? Is it so hard to summarize?

 

[Logan Howlett]

Yes.....yes it is......my brain....to many ideas....to many thoughts......not convert well.......overload.....

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Okay, to be honest, I didn't get very far, because I disagree strongly with the first paragraph. Dick needs to be a child when his parents are slain. That's what happened to Bruce, and the point is that he and Dick are the same. A child orphaned by a killer will be significantly more damaged by the event than an adult. Also, an adult would not want to be Batman's sidekick, and could not be adopted. Also, if they were both adults, the "gay" thing would immediately be raised.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Ow, my ADD is kicking in. Is there a Coles Notes version of this? Is it so hard to summarize?

I have ADD too, but I can read a long post. Summarization is not a good thing, and people who read Coles Notes or Cliffs Notes are simply not interested in knowing anything.

If you're not gonna read his post, at least have a real reason other than, "oh, that was too long."

Otherwise you and I are not going to get along very well. I make longer posts than his as a matter of course.

 

[AnimeJune]

I have ADD too, but I can read a long post. Summarization is not a good thing, and people who read Coles Notes or Cliffs Notes are simply not interested in knowing anything.

If you're not gonna read his post, at least have a real reason other than, "oh, that was too long."

Otherwise you and I are not going to get along very well. I make longer posts than his as a matter of course.

Fair enough - but I really quit reading it for a similar reason to you - I stopped caring. I don't care for fanfiction, and I don't like to read short stories on messageboards.

 

[Logan Howlett]

I dono, I just don't find a grown man allowing a child to fight crime very........realistic. I just don't see that happening in the Begins version. I just think my idea fits more with what Nolan would do, and how BB was played out. Makes it feel more real to me. An enraged teenager is much easier to see fighting crime.

Also, the Gay thing will ALWAYS come up, just if he's a child they'll call him Michel Jackson. Bruce lived and trained with nothing but men for years while he was away, does THAT make him gay, no, and thats why he would invite Dick, for training. To make sure he has all of the same advantages, and Gotham gets another hero instead of just a vigilanty.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Fair enough - but I really quit reading it for a similar reason to you - I stopped caring. I don't care for fanfiction, and I don't like to read short stories on messageboards.

Better to just say so, then.

But I'll tell you, this is a messageboard, it's designed for sharing ideas. If you don't want to read people's ideas... why are you here?

 

[AnimeJune]

Better to just say so, then.

But I'll tell you, this is a messageboard, it's designed for sharing ideas. If you don't want to read people's ideas... why are you here?

I'm fine with ideas - just not giant, long paragraphs of them. I realize I'm sounding like a bit of a bubblehead here, but I have a harder time reading stuff on screen then I do in print. I'll try harder, but if the story is one that I don't care for - i.e. Robin as a badass. Batman's the ultimate bad-ass, so Robin as a rebel is just going to look weak next to Bats. I'd imagine Robin as slightly more naive and optimistic to counteract Batman's determined pessimism.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I dono, I just don't find a grown man allowing a child to fight crime very........realistic. I just don't see that happening in the Begins version. I just think my idea fits more with what Nolan would do, and how BB was played out. Makes it feel more real to me. An enraged teenager is much easier to see fighting crime.

Also, the Gay thing will ALWAYS come up, just if he's a child they'll call him Michel Jackson. Bruce lived and trained with nothing but men for years while he was away, does THAT make him gay, no, and thats why he would invite Dick, for training. To make sure he has all of the same advantages, and Gotham gets another hero instead of just a vigilanty.

Okay, I'm gonna post something here that I call "Robin 101." It's about as long as your post up there. If need be, I'll read yours in exchange for you reading mine. Hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from after you've read it:

Robin should be between 13 to 14 years old. He should be a very intense, angry kid. Anybody who thinks a 13 year old boy can't carry off rage doesn't remember what it's like to be a 13 year old boy, and probably has led a very comfortable life.

A 13 year old orphan would be VERY pissed off pretty much of the time. I think that's important. A younger kid will be more dramatically affected by his parents' death (as Bruce was) and would begin his training at the age that Bruce did (in the comics). The difference is that Robin has a Batman to train under.

For people who say that Batman would never endanger a child, you miss the obvious question: suppose the kid was going to go out and try to avenge his parents regardless of what Bruce did? If Bruce couldn't stop Dick from trying to avenge his parents, then the obvious way to ensure Dick's safety is to make sure he's got the training to pull it off. Focus his rage and his guilt into something constructive, as Bruce did.

Suppose, just for a second, that Dick Grayson, teenage acrobat, is orphaned by a killer. Suppose, further, that the circus life is all Dick has ever known. He has friends there, and it's rough life, it involves a lot of travel and a lot of hard work, and he has never had a real home outside of a train car or a truck or bus or whatever they use these days. His family are acrobats. He has already been putting his life on the line every day for as long as he has been physically able to perform on the trapeze.

When his parents are gone, his usefulness to the circus is gone as well. His friends care for him and maybe he tags along with them for a while but he has no real job in the circus any longer.

Now I need you to consider. Dick is not a legal resident of ANY city. He lives on the road. He is a carnie, basically a drifter, and he is a teenager.

Allow me to remind you what it is like to be a teenage boy. You are moody. You are, sometimes, a git, and for no reason other than you woke up feeling that way that day. It's a hormonal thing. It happens.

Furthermore, in case you have never experienced the death of a loved one, let me explain to you that it is usually accompanied by a bit of anger and helplessness. And because Dick was present when it happened, he is also going to feel some survivor's guilt.

Now then. As we have established, Dick is a carnie. Therefore, he is used to having to solve his own problems. He's angry at the guy who killed his parents? No problem, the solution is to go kill the guy. He feels helpless for the first time in his life? The solution is to go do something proactive, like, let's say, hunt down his parents' killer. He feels survivor's guilt? Risking his life to avenge his parents deaths would seem to address this concern as well. Dick is going to go out into the night and try to find his parents' murderer. And he isn't going to need Batman's help to do it.

Hell, at this point he doesn't even KNOW Batman.

Now, there is no social services person coming for Dick, because he is not a legal resident of anyplace. There is nobody looking to adopt this kid. And then Bruce Wayne shows up and offers to give him a home. I think Dick is going to resist this, but he's not an adult and the people at the Circus are going to think that Bruce can give Dick a more normal life than they can.

Dick just wants to avenge his parents' deaths. And Bruce... Bruce wants to protect Dick. Bruce wants to save him. Not to make him into his sidekick. Batman works alone. Bruce wants to PROTECT THE KID.

But he can't stop Dick from trying to find his parents' murderer. He just can't. It would be a full-time job and Bruce already ha a full-time job wearing a cape. He wants to protect the innocent and among them is Dick, but he can't protect Dick AND protect everybody else at the same time. And Dick doesn't want protection. Dick is not helpless, and he is not content to stay home or go to school or do any of those things.

Bruce knows the anger that drives Dick. He wants to take that anger away from Dick, but he can't, and Dick is actually SAFER if he is where Batman can keep an eye on him; Dick is SAFER if he has been taught Keysi Fighting Method; Dick is SAFER if he has body armor and tools. Because make no mistake about it: Dick is GOING TO SEEK VENGEANCE regardless of whether Bruce helps him or not. Bruce's guidance could be the difference between a dead child and a living one. (Bruce's guidance being the force that keeps him alive, of course).

So, it IS helping him. Because without Bruce's training, Dick is going to get himself killed. And there's NOT A DAMN THING ANYBODY CAN DO ABOUT THAT.

Dick never HAD a normal life. He had a happy life with the circus, but it sure as hell wasn't NORMAL. That's kind of the point, isn't it? Dick never had a normal life. He didn't grow up in suburbia playing stickball with Billy and Tim. He grew up shoveling elephant dung and listening to drunken old clowns telling dirty jokes. He grew up with bearded ladies and triple-breasted ****es, he grew up a sort of star in his own little world, learning the family trade and learning to do it right so that he would not die attempting it.

If Robin chose to be a warrior, Batman can't make him take back that choice. And the world needs heroes. A properly trained soldier is always preferable, and less a danger to himself, than one who has no idea what he is doing.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I'm fine with ideas - just not giant, long paragraphs of them. I realize I'm sounding like a bit of a bubblehead here, but I have a harder time reading stuff on screen then I do in print. I'll try harder, but if the story is one that I don't care for - i.e. Robin as a badass. Batman's the ultimate bad-ass, so Robin as a rebel is just going to look weak next to Bats. I'd imagine Robin as slightly more naive and optimistic to counteract Batman's determined pessimism.

That's fair.

 

[Ronny Shade]

No one let me know what they thought of my idea.......

Dick Grayson will NEVER hand Batman's ass to him.

 

[El Payaso]

Robin is the light to his darkness, yes that's true.

I can't believe how gay that sounds.

Well written any character can work - hell, with the proper story the Joker could become Batman's lover.

^I know, but I doubt they'll choose the best here.

Batman is not emo. Batman by way of Tim Burton is emo. But Batman is not emo.

Don't ever say that again.

Tim Burton's Batman is the only one who beds the girl. Schumacher's semigay and Nolan's too girly about Rachel. Let her to slap him twice and SHE had to kiss Bruce at the end.

So don't you ever say that again.

 

[El Payaso]

Okay, to be honest, I didn't get very far, because I disagree strongly with the first paragraph. Dick needs to be a child when his parents are slain. That's what happened to Bruce, and the point is that he and Dick are the same. A child orphaned by a killer will be significantly more damaged by the event than an adult. Also, an adult would not want to be Batman's sidekick, and could not be adopted. Also, if they were both adults, the "gay" thing would immediately be raised.

Paedophile; they don't need to be adults for the "gay" thing.

And how many prphan kids are there, why the fixation on Dick? (dunno if the pun is intended)