If you think about it logically, God can't exist.

The impossibly intricate order and inter-connectedness of everything from the way the human body regulates blood sugar levels, to the complex symbiotic relationships found in nature to the fact that time necessarily must be traced backwards to a "first moment", definitely can indicate an intelligence at work, just as surely as finding a pocket watch on the beach indicates that SOMEone SOMEwhere designed and built it.

It's wAy more preposterous to find a pocket watch on the beach and assume that all of it's tiny cogs and springs just spontaneously organized themselves in such a perfectly workable fashion.

You've put that very well.

That is actually something I'd agree with. I would have put something similar into my original post, but I wouldn't have been able to state it as well as you. Plus, I just wanted to get the argument against God out there.

There is only so far back that you can go. The proof of God is in the intricacy of life and nature and everything. It's unlikely that the Universe put itself together in some kind of freakish accident. That's logical thinking. It's the best logical argument for the existence of God I think anyone's got, and it's pretty damn good too.

But... organised religion is still stupid and illogical.
 
kainedamo said:
You've put that very well.

That is actually something I'd agree with. I would have put something similar into my original post, but I wouldn't have been able to state it as well as you. Plus, I just wanted to get the argument against God out there.

There is only so far back that you can go. The proof of God is in the intricacy of life and nature and everything. It's unlikely that the Universe put itself together in some kind of freakish accident. That's logical thinking. It's the best logical argument for the existence of God I think anyone's got, and it's pretty damn good too.

But... organised religion is still stupid and illogical.

I hear the sound of b-b-b-b-backpedal.
 
kainedamo said:
You've put that very well.

That is actually something I'd agree with. I would have put something similar into my original post, but I wouldn't have been able to state it as well as you. Plus, I just wanted to get the argument against God out there.

There is only so far back that you can go. The proof of God is in the intricacy of life and nature and everything. It's unlikely that the Universe put itself together in some kind of freakish accident. That's logical thinking. It's the best logical argument for the existence of God I think anyone's got, and it's pretty damn good too.

But... organised religion is still stupid and illogical.




AAAAND.......CLOSE THREAD. :up:
 
kainedamo said:
But... organised religion is still stupid and illogical.
This may very well be true. Organized religion has done some very great harm, but also some very great good. However, it would be doing yourself a great diservice for you to punish God for the transgressions of Man. Don't let human stupidity push you away from God. Just the fact that you are questioning things shows that you are considering and seeking and these are good things. You can be a believer and not a member of an organized religion. You can read the Bible and find wisdom there without belonging to a group as well. Most commentaries that help greatly with our understanding of Scripture are non-denominational, they just help to put things into perspective to help your understanding. The Bible is primarily a historical document and commentaries can help you understand why something was written the way it was. :)
 
JLBats said:
I'd laugh if Wilhelm gets to heaven and Jesus and Moses and Buddha and Muhammed are standing beside each other with twin ass-paddles, sneering in delight.
worst fear
 
If you think about it logically,really, nothing should exist. :up:
 
I hear the sound of b-b-b-b-backpedal.

I'm trying to come up with a rebuttal.

This is what I've got so far.

Okay. So yeah, the Universe is massive. The human brain is very complicated. Nature is amazing. It's amazing that all of this stuff works together.

But look at it this way. Nature has had millions of years to change, adapt, evolve, etc. Nature has had a very very very looooooooong time to MAKE everything work. The human brain has been in "the making" for a long, long time. Evolution takes ****ing ages. Life on this planet (probably) started off as premordial goo. We didn't just pop out as we are now. It took a long time. You take me out of this place, stick me somewhere brand new, say like Mars... I won't survive. But clone my dead carcass (dodgy science here, but you'll understand my point even though I'm making it in an awkward way) and do the same thing again, then again, and again and again, millions of times, I'll adapt. My point is - the human brain is amazing and complicated because it's had a long time to become like that.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... "we can only go back so far". That isn't proof of God's existence. All that means is... we don't know. We just don't know the answer yet. Maybe one day we will, maybe one day we won't. But you can't say, we don't know how far the history of the Universe goes back, we don't know what came before the Universe, or what came before that, therefore God must exist. All it means is... we don't know.
 
Thanks for opening my mind, KD . . . . :rolleyes:

I suggest that you never participate in a debate team, cuz you'll lose . . .
 
I don't believe in god simply because I choose not to. I have been giving no proof of his existence therefor I do not believe.
 
Logically, life had to be created by life, because it cannot appear on its own.

Therefore God exists.

kainedamo is done here.
 
anyway . . . your problem is (Kainedamo, that is), you're trying to view God from a logical standpoint, and our minds are limited in terms of comprehension of the infinite . . . . this is the divine joke, that we'll never know if God exists in this life, because we're not meant to . . . . our brains are not capable of comprehending the omnipotent . . . . because if we knew anything about God beyond our cartoonification of him, our heads would fuacking explode in awe.

So it's a moot point to argue the existence of God, but I do believe that organized religion's interpretation of God is ludicrous, because no one religion holds the answers to the afterlife . . . .
 
If that is the case...who created God.

If one thing creates another...who created him?
 
We all have our beliefs and none-beliefs and seeing as nothing can be proven one way or the other why not just stop arguing about it.
 
wolfsfang said:
If that is the case...who created God.

If one thing creates another...who created him?

God is called the uncaused cause in philosophy.
 
kainedamo said:
When you look at the subject of whether or not God exists from a logical point of view, there is little to no logic behind the existence of God.

The only "proof" of the existence of God is various different documents, such as the Bible, insitutions such as the Church, and these things have been written and created by MAN. You trace it back as far as it can go and you won't find God, you'll just find a guy that believes he is the Messiah telling people to go off and believe in God.

The the old days, they had a much better excuse for buying into the religion fad. What the hell is that big warm yellow thing that rises every day?? What are all those sparkily things in the sky?? How did we end up here?? Those types of questions, and many others, easily answered by saying "God did it".

Now we know better. We know what the Sun is, what the planets are, what the stars are, we can trace their existence back through scientific means. We know roughly what age the planet is. Science says that the Earth is very very old, but if you were to believe the hardcore Christians who refuse to listen to logic, they will tell you the Earth can't be very old at all "cause the bible says so". Once upon a time, Christians would have told you the Earth is the centre of the Universe. Few Christians these days are dumb enough to tell you that. We are just one planet in millions of billions. The universe is very, very, VERY ****ing big, our planet compared to it is tiny. Our existence really is quite insignificant.

Religion in the old days existed for three reasons. One, to explain things because no other explanation was available. Two, because life used to be quite ****ing hard for most people, people died very early, and people needed to believe that there was something better. Three, because religion makes it easy for the powerful to control the masses.

Some people would say that you need religion to tell you right from wrong. These people are truely dilluded. What an unhealthy attitude and thought process. That's the beaf I have with religion, it can be used in a way where people actually dillude themselves. You need someone else to tell you right from wrong??? We are all born with a concience. From a very, very early age we learn right from wrong. And it's not from religion, it's not from our parents. As tiny children, we recognise things that hurts us, and in turn realise that it hurts other people too. We learn from experience and observation what right and wrong is. It's a species survival thing really.

Believing in God is kinda like believing in Santa Clause. In fact, there is no diffference.

What is the difference in believing that some fat guy comes down your chimney and gives you presents, only because your parents say so, and believing that God exists, simply because books dating back a few thousand years say so.

What about the unexplained? Outer body experiences, claims of God speaking directly to you, etc, things of that nature? There is a scientific basis for everything. If something is currently unexplained by science, then one day it will be. The things I mentioned, they all have at least hints of a scientific explanation.

Religion is and always has been about having a leap of faith. You can't believe in God's existence without a leap of faith. And having a leap of faith is the very absence of logical thinking.

Do you know who is really annoying? Really comfortable, middle class suburban Christian kids. At least poor working class folk from the middle ages had a good excuse. Their lives were ****ty, they needed to believe there was something better.

Great article. Im not sure if I agree with it, but you did a good job of writing it.
 
Logically, life had to be created by life, because it cannot appear on its own.

Therefore God exists.

No. What you've done here is take a massive leap, you've jumped to a big conclusion. You can't say "I don't know what the origin of life is - therefore God exists". You can just say "I don't know what the origin of life is - therefore I don't know what the origin of life is" and that's all there is to it.

Remember one important thing, everyone. This same logic was used to explain why the Sun comes up everyday. Just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean that's proof that God must have done it.
 
wolfsfang said:
If that is the case...who created God.

If one thing creates another...who created him?
Yeah that use to bother me for a while but then christians say the God=love thing so maybe love was always here :confused: ....Im not a good philosopher.
 
Darth Elektra said:
Great article. Im not sure if I agree with it, but you did a good job of writing it.

Don't encourage him . . .
 
kainedamo said:
No. What you've done here is take a massive leap, you've jumped to a big conclusion. You can't say "I don't know what the origin of life is - therefore God exists". You can just say "I don't know what the origin of life is - therefore I don't know what the origin of life is" and that's all there is to it.

Remember one important thing, everyone. This same logic was used to explain why the Sun comes up everyday. Just because you don't know the answer doesn't mean that's proof that God must have done it.

First you said God can't exist, now you say you don't know :confused:
 
I don't care about peoples arguements myself (if designed to drag me over to their way of thinking).

I just don't believe in him and I never will.

The only thing that will change my mind is God himself appearing in my house and proving he exists.

I don't think that is going to happen any time soon.
 
I will still never get where God came from, and how people can take the boring and lazy route of saying "Oh, he was always there! He needs no explanation! LOL!"

At least come up with an entertaining theory:rolleyes:
 
^^When I say that I never say LOL, lol :O

Yeah I think people will believe what they want to believe...
and I think its okay for anyone to believe whay they want to since we wont ever really pinpoint our orgin anytime soon.
 
But if you can apply the argument that he has ALWAYS been there to God, why can't you apply it to the universe itself?

If God doesn't need a creator, why does the universe?

God gets all the lucky breaks:rolleyes:
 
I don't care about peoples arguements myself (if designed to drag me over to their way of thinking).

I just don't believe in him and I never will.

The only thing that will change my mind is God himself appearing in my house and proving he exists.

I don't think that is going to happen any time soon.

The problem with this is that, while many people demand that God appears to them to prove his existence, I mean... aliens could do that! Or Mysterio even. Mysterio dilluded a person into thinking God had chosen her to mother the next messiah. So even if God appeared to you, how can you be sure it's God, and not an alien or that scoundrel Mysterio?

First you said God can't exist, now you say you don't know

I'm just saying when you think about it logically, there is no proof of his existence, 90% of the time logic says he can't exist. But when you get even deeper into it, when you start thinking about the Universe as a whole and the whole history of everything that ever was... then the only answer that ANYONE can logically come up with is... we just don't ****ing know.
 

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