If you think about it logically, God can't exist.

kainedamo said:
I'm just saying when you think about it logically, there is no proof of his existence, 90% of the time logic says he can't exist. But when you get even deeper into it, when you start thinking about the Universe as a whole and the whole history of everything that ever was... then the only answer that ANYONE can logically come up with is... we just don't ****ing know.

Er, no, your exact words were "If you think about it logically, God can't exist." Not "90% of the time he can't exist" which doesn't even make any sense. You then followed it up with an argument that never made the point of "We just don't ****ing know."

Again, this is backpedal. Massive.
 
JLBats said:
But if you can apply the argument that he has ALWAYS been there to God, why can't you apply it to the universe itself?

If God doesn't need a creator, why does the universe?

God gets all the lucky breaks:rolleyes:
Because scientist have already proved that the universe wasnt always here...which is why they have plent of theories on how the universe was created :confused:

..which is why a lot believe in God...maybe it is lazy but I like the idea.
 
Sentinel X said:
Because scientist have already proved that the universe wasnt always here...which is why they have plent of theories on how the universe was created :confused:

..which is why a lot believe in God...maybe it is lazy but I like the idea.

What proof exactly do they have that the universe wasn't always here?

Maybe the earth wasn't, but I've never seen valid proof regarding the universe.
 
The universe was always there because the universe is just empty space.

It might not always have had things in it, but the space was there
 
JLBats said:
What proof exactly do they have that the universe wasn't always here?

Maybe the earth wasn't, but I've never seen valid proof regarding the universe.

Scientists have measured the rate at which the universe expands and they've worked backwards to the approximate point of where it started to expand.

It's called the big bang.
 
JLBats said:
What proof exactly do they have that the universe wasn't always here?

Maybe the earth wasn't, but I've never seen valid proof regarding the universe.
Its called dark energy...The universe is constantly expanding as we speak(or type :o )...using common sense if the universe is still expanding it obviously had a point of orgin...which is why its an estimated 13.7 billion yrs old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy
 
kainedamo said:
When you look at the subject of whether or not God exists from a logical point of view, there is little to no logic behind the existence of God.

The only "proof" of the existence of God is various different documents, such as the Bible, insitutions such as the Church, and these things have been written and created by MAN. You trace it back as far as it can go and you won't find God, you'll just find a guy that believes he is the Messiah telling people to go off and believe in God.

The the old days, they had a much better excuse for buying into the religion fad. What the hell is that big warm yellow thing that rises every day?? What are all those sparkily things in the sky?? How did we end up here?? Those types of questions, and many others, easily answered by saying "God did it".

Now we know better. We know what the Sun is, what the planets are, what the stars are, we can trace their existence back through scientific means. We know roughly what age the planet is. Science says that the Earth is very very old, but if you were to believe the hardcore Christians who refuse to listen to logic, they will tell you the Earth can't be very old at all "cause the bible says so". Once upon a time, Christians would have told you the Earth is the centre of the Universe. Few Christians these days are dumb enough to tell you that. We are just one planet in millions of billions. The universe is very, very, VERY ****ing big, our planet compared to it is tiny. Our existence really is quite insignificant.

Religion in the old days existed for three reasons. One, to explain things because no other explanation was available. Two, because life used to be quite ****ing hard for most people, people died very early, and people needed to believe that there was something better. Three, because religion makes it easy for the powerful to control the masses.

Some people would say that you need religion to tell you right from wrong. These people are truely dilluded. What an unhealthy attitude and thought process. That's the beaf I have with religion, it can be used in a way where people actually dillude themselves. You need someone else to tell you right from wrong??? We are all born with a concience. From a very, very early age we learn right from wrong. And it's not from religion, it's not from our parents. As tiny children, we recognise things that hurts us, and in turn realise that it hurts other people too. We learn from experience and observation what right and wrong is. It's a species survival thing really.

Believing in God is kinda like believing in Santa Clause. In fact, there is no diffference.

What is the difference in believing that some fat guy comes down your chimney and gives you presents, only because your parents say so, and believing that God exists, simply because books dating back a few thousand years say so.

What about the unexplained? Outer body experiences, claims of God speaking directly to you, etc, things of that nature? There is a scientific basis for everything. If something is currently unexplained by science, then one day it will be. The things I mentioned, they all have at least hints of a scientific explanation.

Religion is and always has been about having a leap of faith. You can't believe in God's existence without a leap of faith. And having a leap of faith is the very absence of logical thinking.

Do you know who is really annoying? Really comfortable, middle class suburban Christian kids. At least poor working class folk from the middle ages had a good excuse. Their lives were ****ty, they needed to believe there was something better.


So you are saying that because we have a conscience, that this is evidence against God existing?..

Right.

So everything brought itself into existance.
Here's some logic...
Nothing natural can bring itself into existance.
 
You haven't really done anything except declared you don't believe in religion.

God is a basis of faith and bringing logic into it is frankly illogical. There will never be proof one way or the other for the basis of God so there isn't any point in getting into it anyway.

What does it matter to you if someone wants to believe in God? Your doing what all those bible thumper christians are doing and trying to say that you are right and they are wrong. Leave it alone, let people believe what they want don't try and force your beliefs on anyone else. If everyone thought this way world would be a much better place.

Agree to disagree I say.
 
So you are saying that because we have a conscience, that this is evidence against God existing?..

Right.

So everything brought itself into existance.
Here's some logic...
Nothing natural can bring itself into existance.

Hey, Mr. Don't read the whole thread, look at my post where I point out nature has had millions of years to get things right.

Planet Earth didn't just appear. Human beings didn't just "pop" into existence. It took a very, very long time. Duh.
 
Mrh7448 said:
You haven't really done anything except declared you don't believe in religion.

God is a basis of faith and bringing logic into it is frankly illogical. There will never be proof one way or the other for the basis of God so there isn't any point in getting into it anyway.

What does it matter to you if someone wants to believe in God? Your doing what all those bible thumper christians are doing and trying to say that you are right and they are wrong. Leave it alone, let people believe what they want don't try and force your beliefs on anyone else. If everyone thought this way world would be a much better place.

Agree to disagree I say.

Exactly. We are all entitled to believe what we choose.
 
Mrh7448 said:
You haven't really done anything except declared you don't believe in religion.

God is a basis of faith and bringing logic into it is frankly illogical. There will never be proof one way or the other for the basis of God so there isn't any point in getting into it anyway.

What does it matter to you if someone wants to believe in God? Your doing what all those bible thumper christians are doing and trying to say that you are right and they are wrong. Leave it alone, let people believe what they want don't try and force your beliefs on anyone else. If everyone thought this way world would be a much better place.

Agree to disagree I say.
Ditto...nice post.People should believe what they want to believe, there is nothing wrong with believing in a God and not believing in one imo....you just need to find the one that is more satisfying to you I guess.




...and not criticize and mock someone else's beliefs...its incredibly rude and vile
 
So far, all I've seen is that there is 'evidence' that the universe is expanding. And that some people who think they are smart have come up with theories as to why and how it's doing that. But what possibly happened before it is still a mystery.

So, is that really proof?
 
I believe in the Egyptian Gods. Anubis, Osiris, Set and the others are just far more interesting then one old man.

No offence meant
 
kainedamo said:
Hey, Mr. Don't read the whole thread, look at my post where I point out nature has had millions of years to get things right.

Planet Earth didn't just appear. Human beings didn't just "pop" into existence. It took a very, very long time. Duh.

where did the matter that makes up the universe come from? I'm no scientist, but doesn't the second law of thermal dynamics say that nothing can bring itself into existance, because matter can't be created or destroyed?

I guess over billions and billions of years though, nothing had a lot of time on it's hands to create something.
 
wolfsfang said:
I believe in the Egyptian Gods. Anubis, Osiris, Set and the others are just far more interesting then one old man.

No offence meant
What I thought you just said you dont believe in God? :confused:
 
kainedamo said:
Hey, Mr. Don't read the whole thread, look at my post where I point out nature has had millions of years to get things right.

Planet Earth didn't just appear. Human beings didn't just "pop" into existence. It took a very, very long time. Duh.

It would have had to start somewhere and it couldn't happen naturally.
 
Sentinel X said:
What I thought you just said you dont believe in God? :confused:

I don't.

What I meant is that if I chose to believe I would choose to belive in the ancient egyptian ones
 
wolfsfang said:
I don't.

What I meant is that if I chose to believe I would choose to belive in the ancient egyptian ones
Oh okay...I love the egyptian Gods...they have pretty interesting stories imo.I cant wait to go to Egypt next summer :up:
 
wolfsfang said:
I don't.

What I meant is that if I chose to believe I would choose to belive in the ancient egyptian ones
You need to have some conversations with TheSumOfGod, he's got some real good 'gods' for you.
 
kainedamo said:
Wussy attitude.

Plus where did I say I want to force people to change.


Why is it a wussy attitude? I've been through this stuff before, you can argue in circles for days you aren't going to get people to change their mind. So there's no real point to it.

Laissez faire I say.

You didn't outright say but by declaring that it's illogical to believe in god you are saying you have the answers and that people should basically stop believing in god because it's illogical.
 
I like that everytime someone says agree to disagree in a KD thread he calls you a ***** because OMG youre actually choosing to show common courtesy and respect. My god, imagine all the wars we couldve prevented.
 

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