If you think about it logically, God can't exist.

It would have had to start somewhere and it couldn't happen naturally.

How do you know? You don't know. Nobody knows.

where did the matter that makes up the universe come from? I'm no scientist, but doesn't the second law of thermal dynamics say that nothing can bring itself into existance, because matter can't be created or destroyed?

I guess over billions and billions of years though, nothing had a lot of time on it's hands to create something.

There you go, ignoring my posts again. Either that or my points are going completely over your head. So I'll say it again. YOU DON'T KNOW THE ORIGINS OF EVERYTHING!! All we can do is try to trace things back as far as possible, but we'll never know how far back it goes. We'll never know. It could be a totally natural process with a scientific explanation that no human mind could ever comprehend, or it could be God. Why assume the latter? Why say that because something can't come from nothing and we don't know the origins of the Universe, then that's proof of God's existence? Just because we don't know doesn't mean God did it.
 
kainedamo said:
How do you know? You don't know. Nobody knows.



There you go, ignoring my posts again. Either that or my points are going completely over your head. So I'll say it again. YOU DON'T KNOW THE ORIGINS OF EVERYTHING!! All we can do is try to trace things back as far as possible, but we'll never know how far back it goes. We'll never know. It could be a totally natural process with a scientific explanation that no human mind could ever comprehend, or it could be God. Why assume the latter? Why say that because something can't come from nothing and we don't know the origins of the Universe, then that's proof of God's existence? Just because we don't know doesn't mean God did it.

The title of your thread is "If you think about it logically, God can't exist", yet you just said "we don't know". Your running in circles.

Nice try though.
 
kainedamo said:
How do you know? You don't know. Nobody knows.

Because we know enough about physical chemistry that to change the physical nature of matter requires changing its nuclear properties and changes in nuclear properties cannot happen naturally.

The stability of physical matter is what makes life possible.
 
What is fact now is fiction in the future when we learn more.

e.g. Cigarettes were once considered good for you...and now!
 
Ya wanna know why there is no God. The Bible says God is a loving God who cares and those who love him will too care. Cool yeah? He's such a loving God, that the girl I love wants to leave me unless I too believe in God.

Thanks Jesus!
 
wolfsfang said:
What is fact now is fiction in the future when we learn more.

e.g. Cigarettes were once considered good for you...and now!

anyone who believed that cigarettes are actually good for is the sucker that was born that minute. No one in their right mind even way back could believe cigs are good for you.
 
That's all very well and good War Lord, but I don't think the human race has learned everything there is to know about physics.

Only when we know the true origins of the Universe and whatever came before it, and the physics that apply, only then can we say if it is a natural event or God.

I just think it's possible that the origins of the Universe and everything that came before it, it's possible that it's all science based, but science that even the most advanced human mind couldn't understand.

All I'm saying is... why does it have to be God?? God... it's a bit of a copout answer really. If indeed something can't come from nothing... God... where's he come from then? And the typical reply to that, I believe we've already seen in this thead. No explanation required! It's a cop out answer.
 
I will end my stay here by simply saying

I don't care one way or the other.

He either exists or he doesn't. Either way I just don't care
 
Clerk said:
Ya wanna know why there is no God. The Bible says God is a loving God who cares and those who love him will too care. Cool yeah? He's such a loving God, that the girl I love wants to leave me unless I too believe in God.

Thanks Jesus!


She doesnt like you, she told me last night.
 
Darthphere said:
And I still have the girl of your dreams.

She obviously isnt if she chooses a book over the guy shes been with for 2 years. :o
 
Clerk said:
She obviously isnt if she chooses a book over the guy shes been with for 2 years. :o


That book is great in the sack.
 
Darthphere said:
That book is great in the sack.

This is true, nothing beats sticking your dick through Jesus's hands. :up:
 
Man-Thing said:
anyone who believed that cigarettes are actually good for is the sucker that was born that minute. No one in their right mind even way back could believe cigs are good for you.
Doctors would preach that they were good for you, that they could lower stress, but they could have been payed off ;) haha
 
If you think about it logically, unicorns can't exist.
 
logical answers are boring answers as they leave nothing for the imagination and it is "the imagination" which enables us to invent and seperate our species from all the others on the planet.
 
kainedamo said:
When you look at the subject of whether or not God exists from a logical point of view, there is little to no logic behind the existence of God.

The only "proof" of the existence of God is various different documents, such as the Bible, insitutions such as the Church, and these things have been written and created by MAN. You trace it back as far as it can go and you won't find God, you'll just find a guy that believes he is the Messiah telling people to go off and believe in God.

The the old days, they had a much better excuse for buying into the religion fad. What the hell is that big warm yellow thing that rises every day?? What are all those sparkily things in the sky?? How did we end up here?? Those types of questions, and many others, easily answered by saying "God did it".

Now we know better. We know what the Sun is, what the planets are, what the stars are, we can trace their existence back through scientific means. We know roughly what age the planet is. Science says that the Earth is very very old, but if you were to believe the hardcore Christians who refuse to listen to logic, they will tell you the Earth can't be very old at all "cause the bible says so". Once upon a time, Christians would have told you the Earth is the centre of the Universe. Few Christians these days are dumb enough to tell you that. We are just one planet in millions of billions. The universe is very, very, VERY ****ing big, our planet compared to it is tiny. Our existence really is quite insignificant.

Religion in the old days existed for three reasons. One, to explain things because no other explanation was available. Two, because life used to be quite ****ing hard for most people, people died very early, and people needed to believe that there was something better. Three, because religion makes it easy for the powerful to control the masses.

Some people would say that you need religion to tell you right from wrong. These people are truely dilluded. What an unhealthy attitude and thought process. That's the beaf I have with religion, it can be used in a way where people actually dillude themselves. You need someone else to tell you right from wrong??? We are all born with a concience. From a very, very early age we learn right from wrong. And it's not from religion, it's not from our parents. As tiny children, we recognise things that hurts us, and in turn realise that it hurts other people too. We learn from experience and observation what right and wrong is. It's a species survival thing really.

Believing in God is kinda like believing in Santa Clause. In fact, there is no diffference.

What is the difference in believing that some fat guy comes down your chimney and gives you presents, only because your parents say so, and believing that God exists, simply because books dating back a few thousand years say so.

What about the unexplained? Outer body experiences, claims of God speaking directly to you, etc, things of that nature? There is a scientific basis for everything. If something is currently unexplained by science, then one day it will be. The things I mentioned, they all have at least hints of a scientific explanation.

Religion is and always has been about having a leap of faith. You can't believe in God's existence without a leap of faith. And having a leap of faith is the very absence of logical thinking.

Do you know who is really annoying? Really comfortable, middle class suburban Christian kids. At least poor working class folk from the middle ages had a good excuse. Their lives were ****ty, they needed to believe there was something better.


B-but if there's no God, then who wrote "Layla"?:(
 
11303.jpg


that is all...Seacrest out :cool:
 
kainedamo said:
That's all very well and good War Lord, but I don't think the human race has learned everything there is to know about physics.

Only when we know the true origins of the Universe and whatever came before it, and the physics that apply, only then can we say if it is a natural event or God.

I just think it's possible that the origins of the Universe and everything that came before it, it's possible that it's all science based, but science that even the most advanced human mind couldn't understand.

All I'm saying is... why does it have to be God?? God... it's a bit of a copout answer really. If indeed something can't come from nothing... God... where's he come from then? And the typical reply to that, I believe we've already seen in this thead. No explanation required! It's a cop out answer.

Don't you understand the meaning of the word omnipotent . . . like I said before, and which you've failed to acknowledge is the fact that if God does indeed exist, we are too simple to comprehend what it means to be God . . . . that's why every religion is so vague and incorrect, because nobody has the answer, and that's because the stories of all religion's holy books are metaphors for what God means . . . .
 
God does not indeed exist as you put it.

You believe he exists as do millions of others. But there are just as many who do not believe in him. It is impossible for you to prove the existence of God just as it is impossible for us atheists to prove the none existence of him. That is why it is called belief.

God is belief and belief is when you have no proof. So if you proved God you would no longer have belief, you would have knowledge of God, meaning God cannot exist (or will at least stop existing) as soon as we know for certain he exists.

But I myself cannot believe unless I have proof.

It's a stalemate
 
God is an invisible floating donkey dick at the center of our Sun...prove me wrong...
 
^I never said anywhere in this thread that I necessarily believe in God, so your point is moot . . . . however, I agree that this argument is a stalemate . . . .

And if God was proven to exist, how does that knowledge eliminate his existence?
 
taking from the Hitch hikers Guide to the Galaxy

"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything
so mindboggingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that
some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching
proof of the non-existence of God.

"The argument goes something like this: `I refuse to prove that I
exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am
nothing.'

"`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it?
It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so
therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

"`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly
vanished in a puff of logic.



If you prove he exists you prove that he doesn't
 

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