IGN names 10 best Comic Book Movie Villains of all time

Discussion in 'Misc. Comics Films' started by Robin91939, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. Robin91939 Master Tim

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    Yeah, and I'm looking forward to the next three years of Superhero movies, I hope that my list changes a LOT. With possible inclusions of a new Joker and Luthor, and possibly Multipleman, Sandman, Venom, or Green Goblin II.....I hope.

    I mean the wealth of villains that is going to be tapped in the next three years is amazing, if all rumors are true:

    -Sandman
    -Venom
    -Green Goblin II
    -Joker
    -Black Mask (possibly)
    -Penguin (possibly)
    -Two-face (BATMAN III if the movies are filmed together...rumor)
    -Lex Luthor
    -Brainiac (Doubtful)
    -Multiple man
    -Omega Red
    -Archlight
    -Calisto
    -Juggernaut
    -Quill
    -Abomination
    -Red Skull (when Captain America comes to screen)
    - And MUCH MUCH more

    I mean, the there could end up being a VERY solid top to bottom top THIRTY list by then, and growing.



    -R
     
  2. DarKush Registered

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    But in Spidey 2, they did make a personal connection between Peter and Octavius, having Peter be enamored of Octavius' research and having a conversation with Octavius and his wife. So it wasn't like these guys were complete strangers before they clashed, according to Spidey 2.

    The Goblin worked more as a villian because there were issues of trust, betrayal there. Plus, there was the whole father figure-son thing going on between Norman and Peter. Both of them were interconnected, and their fighting would have collateral damage that would hurt someone they cared about, namely Harry, no matter who won.
     
  3. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Just because they met before does not make it personal when they become enemies.It was a mentor/student relationship.Simple as that.Do you feel personally connected to every stranger you meet and get to know for a couple of hours??

    Norman and Peter never had a father/son relationship in the comics.Again that's Raimi trying to make it all personal and sympathetic.

    Secondly,as I said GG is supposed to personal.He's the father of Peter's best friend.And he learns Spider-Man's identity.He's obsessed with him.

    A villain having no personal connections to the hero does not make them any less effective as a villain.
     
  4. MaskedManJRK Registered

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    In no particular order:

    The Joker
    The Penguin
    The Kingpin
    That Yellow Bastard
    David Banner
    Deacon Frost
    Jared Nomak
    Ra's Al Ghul
    Magneto
    General Zod
     
  5. Robin91939 Master Tim

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    100% agree.

    Eventhough SPIDER-MAN is in my opinion the better movie, SPIDER-MAN 2 had a better villain....but it is close.

    -R
     
  6. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    I prefer SM-2 more simply because of Molina's Ock.He was different to the comics,but was still an incredibally enjoyable villain.Especially visually,hands down he is the most visually stunning on screen villain ever.He makes the movie worth watching.Also I thought Aunt May,Harry and Jonah had better roles and scenes in the second one.The only one who became worse rather than better was Dunst as MJ.

    GG's costume was horrendous.And hindered Dafoe's performance.But he was still very good.And SM-1 is an enjoyable movie.They both are.But they are very flawed.And overrated too IMO.
     
  7. Mr. Socko Registered

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    IGN's list was ok, but where was Kingpin, he was much better in the DC then YB.
     
  8. Sandman138 Registered

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    There was a whole time after he came back from the dead where he was obbsessed with making Peter his heir to the Osborn legacy.
     
  9. Mr. Socko Registered

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    Also, Zod as #1? IGN must be on crack.
     
  10. Robin91939 Master Tim

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    I completely agree with your point on Ock, on all counts. Molina was terrific. I had never scene any of his films before so it made it all the better for me, because he was just DOC OCK to me. And the effects of him...simply breathtaking.

    I agree that Harry's scenes were much better in this, the drunken party scene, and in his office banging the desk, and finally the scene with Norman...however I hated the Birthday party scene). I do feel that Aunt May stayed kind of the same (which isn't bad because I loved her in SPIDER-MAN, the bed room scene after Graduation, Thanksgiving, the Hospital were all great).

    I also agree that EVERYTHING about MJ made a turn for the worse in SPIDER-MAN 2. She was worse looking (the hair looked like garbage, and all of the wardrobe choices didn't scream up-and-coming model/actress). Her chemistry with Tobey wasn't what it was in SPIDER-MAN and she really didn't steal anyscenes (aside from the final line..."Go get'em Tiger" < I loved that line) like she did in SPIDER-MAN. She just had a radiance in that movie that she lost in SPIDER-MAN 2 if you see what I'm saying.

    I actually liked the Goblin costume...I may be the only one. I thought that it did look "military" like, sans the mask. Although the mask really wasn't explained well besides the "witch doctor" masks on the wall of his "study". But none of those were high-tech "Eye flipphing up" masks. I loved Dafoe as Norman and I was very sceptical at first when he was casted...but SPIDER-MAN is 2nd only to BATMAN BEGINS as my favorite movie ever, Comic film or otherwise.

    My top 10 favorite films are...just to put it in perspective how much I like SPIDER-MAN:
    1. BATMAN BEGINS
    2. SPIDER-MAN
    3. SE7EN
    4. SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION
    5. JAWS
    6. SPIDER-MAN 2
    7. ROUNDERS
    8. ROCKY
    9. X2: X-MEN UNITED
    10. FIGHTCLUB

    (Just missing are: Godfather (I & II), ROCKY (II & IV), THE MATRIX, GOODFELLAS, and X-MEN)

    So you can see I don't find them tremendously over-rated. I know some people take them as the end-all be-all...I don't I think that they COULD be better, but I also think that what we got was pretty damn near perfect.

    -R
     
  11. Mr. Socko Registered

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    Meh, Spider-Man 2 was very good, but it's not on my top 10 list because the Peter/MJ love scenes took so much screentime away from Ock.
     
  12. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    He locked him up in a dark room in his mansion for days.I'd hardly call that a father/son relationship.And nowhere near along the lines of what we saw in SM-1.

    Also I don't consider the ressurrected Osborn to be the real Green Goblin.The real Green Goblin died back in ASM#122.This clone saga mastermind,Gwen Stacy screwing,cult worshipping,toothpaste messing sham we're getting in the comics these days is nothing compared to the real Goblin.

    No I'm sure there are others who liked it too.It just didn't do it for me.It looked like cheap green plastic.There was nothing military about it at all IMO.A real Power Ranger look to it.Especially in those daylight fights he had with Spider-Man.His glider was great though.
     
  13. DarKush Registered

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    As I said before, I don't dislike Ock or Molina's peformance. I personally thought he got short shrift in the movie. We didn't get to see enough of him. However, his portrayal just didn't do it for me in the villian department. He was more misguided than truly evil.

    Norman Osborne, though insane, was already somewhat of an arrogant, loathsome figure to begin with. The Goblin persona only seemed an extreme of his normal personality. I didn't see him as tragic or misguided. I saw him as a fairly lucid and dangerous enemy. Though Ock did have his fusion device, which was cool, and Goblin didn't have a grand scheme. I don't think Goblin really needed one.
     
  14. The Kid AMERICA FTW

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    no I agree with whomever said the green meanie really didn't have much of a plan for anything. He was just winging it the whole time and that's lame. It takes his menace factor down. what the hell... I wanted the goblin to kill those jerks who fired him and stole the company he built... I even wanted him to kill spider-man and MJ because they're such bores.

    He was the real hero in Sm1. If he never attacked a defensless old lady, I'd think he was a saint.
     
  15. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    No,my point in the IGN thread was the Norman relationship was about as deep as the Octavius one.Which was as shallow as a pond.

    A few brief scenes does not show a "long standing relationship".Regardless of how nice the antagonist was to Peter.

    Raimi really tries to make it feel personal,when it shouldn't be,not with Ock anyways.Peter doesn't need to know and like these villains before they turn evil.And if the rumours I've heard about Sandman in SM-3 are true,it's going to get worse.

    Maybe for you,but not for me.I can find a villain just as compelling without any personal connections to the hero.In fact I would find it extremely tedious if every antagonist the hero meets is someone who's got a personal connection to him.

    Which is why I'm glad that is not the case with most of Spidey's and Batman's villains.My two fav heros.

    A completely unnecessary and pointless move on Burton's part.

    If you found movie Doom compelling,then I tip my hat to you ;) As for the other villains you mentioned,that IS their nature.It's supposed to have a personal element.

    But I say again,that does not make them any better than villains who don't have a personal connection to the hero.

    That should of been Octavius' personality pre-accident.Not the Curt Connors clone Raimi made of him.

    And I didn't find movie Osborn arrogant or loathsome pre-accident.He was actually very pleasant to everyone.He was more a driven scientist than an arrogant loathsome figure.

    No,the gas created his Goblin personality.The side effects are in Stromm's words Violence,aggression and insanity.It created an entirely different persona.

    It wasn't a slight tweak of Norman's personality.Heck even his voice changed when he was the Goblin.

    Octavius' accident was a slight tweak of his persona in the comics.That was the Ocavius with his inhibitions lowered.

    Two different villains.Ock is a grand scheme type villain.He was not once known as the Master Planner for nothing.That is his nature.

    But GG always has an agenda too that suits his personal needs,albeit not usually as grand as Ock's schemes.And his motive in the movie to simply make Spidey join him was weak IMO.

    They should have continued to play on the Oscorp angle,while also having him plan to take down Spidey.
     
  16. DarKush Registered

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    Ock,
    You and I aren't going to agree on everything, but I didn't find much to dispute in your last post.

    However, I think that the personal tie works best onscreen, and to some extent in the comics. If that's not the case, then why have the more intimate, personal villians gotten placed in the comic book movies? And even the more impersonal ones, like the Joker, were made personal?

    An impersonal villian can work just as well as a personal one. Going outside of comics for a minute, the Terminators, the Xenomorphs, and Predators were all pretty good villians. So were the pre-VOY Borg on Star Trek. The Magog from Andromeda. And the non-humanoid Replicators on Stargate SG-1.

    (However, even Star Trek First Contact got into the act by creating a Borg Queen who had a personal connection to Picard, and later Data. Subsequently, in VOY, the Borg Queen has personal ties to Janeway and Seven of Nine.)

    But in the shortened timeframe of a movie, a villian with a personal tie or even a previous association seems to work better. It can save some time developing a relationship between the hero and villian.

    How many movies have we seen about a rogue ex-agent (Golden Eye) or cop (SWAT) that was friends, or lovers with the hero? Or a serial killer that develops an adversarial type of congeniality with the cop/profiler (Silence of the Lambs)? Or a rogue Jedi v. his mentor(ROTS)?

    Back to Spider-Man. You can toy with the word 'assume' as you wish, but it is obvious that there was a passage of time between Peter's graduation and him and Harry becoming roommates, and MJ taking the waitress job. Norman was a frequent visitor at Harry's apartment. Peter and Norman had more interaction than Octavius and Peter, whom he had just met in the movie. So, you're comparing months or maybe years to hours, and I think that Ock and Peter's relationship was more 'shallow' than Peter's or Norman's.

    About Norman's personality. I think the Goblin formula only enhanced what was already there. It's debatable of course, and I might be wrong. That just works better for me. That the darkness was already inside Norman, just like Harry. And the Goblin formula merely released his inner demons.

    About Doom. I didn't find the movie Doom compelling. In fact, I thought McMahon underplayed him. The point I was making was the personal tie between him, Reed, and Sue.
     
  17. Red King Littlefinger

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    My list would be...

    Doc Ock
    Magneto
    Ra's Al Ghul
    Zod
    Green Goblin
    Deacon Frost
    Joker
    Scarecrow
    Lex
    Catwoman
     
  18. The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

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    Because Hollywood think they can't make it work any other way.When we know that's BS.For example,look at Hans Gruber in Die Hard.One of the best on screen villains ever.nd he had no connections to Bruce Willis' character.

    Like I said that's what Hollywood do.With practically every villain.Even with Ock.Raimi is like "Oh look Peter really likes this guy and his wife.He idolises this man.What a personal shock it's going to be for him when his idol loses his wife and turns evil".

    It's the cheap and easy way out.Making it personal between hero and villain.

    I'm not going to address the rest of your post because you're just repeating what you said earlier.And that means we're going around in circles.We're just going to have to agree to disagree ;)
     
  19. DarKush Registered

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    I think both of us have reemphasized several points, but you graciously edited out your part in that, like a couple other careful edits you've done along the way, but it's all good.

    And yes, Hans Gruber was a good villian without a personal tie. I also liked William Sadler's character in Die Hard 2. But in Die Hard With a Vengeance, Bruce faced off against Han's brother, who did have a personal motive against McClane. Jeremy Irons played a pretty effective, menacing villian in that picture. And part of Jeremy Iron's menace was tied to his personal vendetta against McClane.
     

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