I'm Reading Your Stuff: General News and Discussion Thread

[TheSmoothKnight]

 

[WayneMB]

so it's shooting Q2 i guess. how does that bode for a winter setting

 

[Sawyer]

The size of his role in Nolan’s film was honestly one of the first thoughts on my mind. With how buckwild Nolan went with the ensemble in Oppenheimer, this could easily not eat away at too much of Rob’s schedule.

 

[Boom]

so it's shooting Q2 i guess. how does that bode for a winter setting

"Later in the year" sounds like Q3 or Q4.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

"Later in the year" sounds like Q3 or Q4.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the first one filmed around the same time. Could go deeper into the year of course if they're looking for a specific time of year.

 

[Johnny Frost]

If we go by Matt's words, he said he expects to film sometime in the first half of the year, considering the pre-production time it could be in June/July.

 

[Boom]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the first one filmed around the same time. Could go deeper into the year of course if they're looking for a specific time of year.

I think production started in February 2020, then halted in March 2020, then started up again in June 2020.

 

[Gandhi]

"Later in the year" sounds like Q3 or Q4.

If it’s relative to the Nolan film starting in January, June/July would still be “later in the year”.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I have to admit, I’m a bit worried about how long it’s taken for Reeves to write this script. I know script writing takes time, but… he supposedly had a trilogy in mind from the get-go and has had nearly three years to finish it at this point. I know the writer’s strike may have disrupted that a bit but… he probably was working on it during that, let’s be real. I worry that he’s possibly had to retool certain aspects of it because of characters that Gunn wants to use in his BATB movie, or that he only had a rough outline of what he wanted and when he got deeper into it, he began to struggle with writing something new and fresh. Or maybe he’s being pressured to keep the runtime down because studio heads believe the three-hour runtime hurt the box office (and if I’m being honest, I think it did; I know a number of people who didn’t see it because of that).

That said, Reeves is incredibly talented and he’s made my personal favorite Batman movie of all time, even if naysayers want to rip him for the runtime or whatever. I think The Batman is a masterpiece and I love how long it is. It feels like a really good novel that you can just lose yourself in. But the delays are troubling, and let’s be honest here. If this was a Marvel movie with a script that is being eternally written and a release date that keeps getting pushed back, we’d all be saying that there are problems behind the scenes.

 

[BatLobster]

I think one reason why I have been reluctant to return to TDK is because of the two movie's divergent view on similar situations of inspiring "copycats". In TDK, he needs to become hated by people. To be a hard man, making hard, unpopular choices so others can be the heroic white knights. In The Batman, he has to become a more heroic figure, beyond just violence.

I think it's kinda apples and oranges, because TDK is dealing with a Batman who already understands that vengeance alone isn't the answer and establishes himself as a more heroic figure with a defined endgame to take out corruption, all in the first hour of Batman Begins. The Joker upends that all and TDK becomes the middle act "dark night of the soul" when viewing it in the context of the trilogy- but not the ultimate resolution of his arc. The choice to cover-up Dent's crimes then has consequences that become a big part of where things go in Rises. So it's part of a much bigger context.

For me, I think the idea that Batman sort of made a bed that he now has to lie in is kind of a more challenging and interesting idea to grapple with than "I have to be more than just vengeance", which is sort of one of my sticking points with The Batman, even though I think it's largely handled beautifully. But it is a lot of plotting and screen time spent to have Batman finally reach "Batman 101" levels of self-awareness and learn lessons that we've pretty much seen him learn before on screen in some form another. I do think The Batman definitely tells that particular story the most thoroughly, so I'm not saying there's no value there. I just have a feeling that whatever Reeves does in Part II is gonna end up being more interesting (for me), because as we've seen with TDK, Empire, etc.--act 2 is where we can really get into the juicy, dramatic stuff.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have to admit, I’m a bit worried about how long it’s taken for Reeves to write this script. I know script writing takes time, but… he supposedly had a trilogy in mind from the get-go and has had nearly three years to finish it at this point. I know the writer’s strike may have disrupted that a bit but… he probably was working on it during that, let’s be real. I worry that he’s possibly had to retool certain aspects of it because of characters that Gunn wants to use in his BATB movie, or that he only had a rough outline of what he wanted and when he got deeper into it, he began to struggle with writing something new and fresh. Or maybe he’s being pressured to keep the runtime down because studio heads believe the three-hour runtime hurt the box office (and if I’m being honest, I think it did; I know a number of people who didn’t see it because of that).

That said, Reeves is incredibly talented and he’s made my personal favorite Batman movie of all time, even if naysayers want to rip him for the runtime or whatever. I think The Batman is a masterpiece and I love how long it is. It feels like a really good novel that you can just lose yourself in. But the delays are troubling, and let’s be honest here. If this was a Marvel movie with a script that is being eternally written and a release date that keeps getting pushed back, we’d all be saying that there are problems behind the scenes.

I 100% think he didn't work during either strike. Sone people take this stuff genuinely seriously. Wish more did.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I loved The Batman overall, and gave it a strong 8/10, but I am admittedly one of those that people that felt like 25 minutes could've been shaved off and you could've still had a great tightly paced Batman film overall. The movie did not need to be 3 hours to tell it's story, imo.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I loved The Batman overall, and gave it a strong 8/10, but I am admittedly one of those that people that felt like 25 minutes could've been shaved off and you could've still had a great tightly paced Batman film overall. The movie did not need to be 3 hours to tell it's story, imo.

Much like TDKR I feel like the film is too short. There is a truncated nature to the second act, that hurts the pacing because it's incomplete.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The Batman is 100% too short. The second act is probably my favourite part of the movie but its pace is really janky trying to accomplish so much. There's a reason Reeves wanted to make it a miniseries at one point. I genuinely don't know what you could cut without losing something important - you could maybe trim down some of the action sequences but those were presumably (to SOME degree) an obligation that the studio would never have let be minimized.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The Batman is 100% too short. The second act is probably my favourite part of the movie but its pace is really janky trying to accomplish so much. There's a reason Reeves wanted to make it a miniseries at one point. I genuinely don't know what you could cut without losing something important - you could maybe trim down some of the action sequences but those were presumably (to SOME degree) an obligation that the studio would never have let be minimized.

Yeah. I honestly feels trimmed to the bones already. There is dialogue that feels like it's suppose to make up for scenes that were most likely cut to get the film down to where it ended up being.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Yeah. I honestly feels trimmed to the bones already. There is dialogue that feels like it's suppose to make up for scenes that were most likely cut to get the film down to where it ended up being.

There’s some real cliff notes stuff going on. The Bruce/Alfred dynamic has a ton of neat stuff going on under the hood but the actual scenes are a bit… Basic in their writing.

 

[Boom]

I want this movie to be the best it can possibly be, but I gotta echo Deck's sentiments here. I am growing increasingly concerned by how long this is taking.

Between all of the ideas he has for the movies and all of the spin-offs in development, is the sheer ambition of it all causing some writer's paralysis? He mentioned that he went back and reworked some stuff for Part II based on what the team was doing with The Penguin. Is he losing time by going back and revising and reworking things over and over?

 

[BatLobster]

The Batman is 100% too short. The second act is probably my favourite part of the movie but its pace is really janky trying to accomplish so much. There's a reason Reeves wanted to make it a miniseries at one point. I genuinely don't know what you could cut without losing something important - you could maybe trim down some of the action sequences but those were presumably (to SOME degree) an obligation that the studio would never have let be minimized.

I've felt this way a while, but especially now after seeing The Penguin, there is definitely a part of me that wishes this whole universe was just one big, sweeping HBO series. Though of course I do love the tradition of keeping Batman on the big screen too.

 

[BatsAndNights]

Matt has essentially a little over a month to have a final draft. That gives 6 months (probably less, it is a sequel with multiple main cast members returning) to get casting and other pre-production necessities done, 6ish months to film and probably the better part of 2026 for post-production.

We're still okay. For now

As some have said, it's if there's still no script at the start of 2025 where I'm gonna start getting concerned. Seeing as there were reports that Matt had "finished" the script, it's possible that came from Matt finishing the script in terms of writing to the end and we're now in redrafting phase. There's still time

 

[J.Drangal]

I disagree the first two acts are built around the mystery of the rat. And a big part of that is how the film is structured. I'm not the biggest fan of that, and it's why I don't love the second act, but I also think it heavily emphasizes how the film is built. And that is that the film is built around a character study of Bruce. That's right, the title is not an accident.

Everything in the film, the plot, the characters, music, revolve around revealing, breaking down, and reshaping of what the Batman is. Hence the grunge of it all.

The first act is our introduction to the scared, emo son of Thomas and Martha. We see how he works, how others react to him, his relationship and lack there of, and we are introduced to two that mirror him greatly in Selina and Eddie.

The second act, my least favorite of the film, is one that is there to reveal the parallels between Bruce and his father, and thus his own to Falcone. With this, doubt enters Bruce. Worse then any beating, the idea that his father was a bad person, gets to Bruce. and his mother's mental illness, and Bruce is suddenly starting to doubt who he and thus the Batman is. It's done in a sloppy manner. Too much exposition, not well refined. Honestly, I wonder if they were asked to cut it down. Because it feels genuinely rushed, but also it's a 3 hour movie. I kind of get it. But one of my favorite aspects of the second act is Bruce's false dawn. He thinks he pulled it off, only to find out what the Batman has inspired is about to reek havoc.

The third act is rock bottom for Bruce. The horror of realizing what the Batman has inspired. Which starts the rebuilding of the Batman into a symbol of hope.

I totally get why people expect The Batman to be more about it's plot. Outside of TDKR and LEGO Bats, Bruce is super static in the vast majority of his flicks. But The Batman is very much a character piece for the Dark Knight. One that shows what the superhero power fancy has become, and what it can and I personally think should be again.

EDIT:
Just wanted to emphasize, I love how much of an awful person Bruce is at the start of the film. I think he's trying to do the right thing, but it's coming from a place of pain. One that has traumatized and has turned him, well gross. Beyond his violent outburst, how he treats Selina, from putting her in harms way to legit perving on her, is great stuff and really helps with the arc. At the start of the movie his crime fighting is self-serving, where as during the finale he's serving Gotham. I also think giving Bruce a clear soft spot for children as his anchor, is perfect. Another reflection. The only one Bruce seems to understand until Selina decides she's going to kill her daddy.

First of all, thanks for the extended reply. I prefer this kind of post rather than discussing the number of “good Batman movies”...

Second, you know... we're actually not really disagreeing.

I totally get that the film finds its dramatic backbone in the deconstruction of Bruce's cold quest for revenge, there's no question about that.
What I was trying to say is that, for about two acts of the film, the “rat investigation” remains the vehicle to move the story forward (and bring Bruce to the various stages of his evolution) and that I found this part distracting because of what I would consider clumsy articulations here and there. Each viewing, I find myself questioning the mechanics of the writing rather than appreciating the character's journey, and this create frustration as I otherwise have no notes on any other aspects of the film...
To sum it up perhaps in a better way: it's not so much a problem of content as of form, less a problem of story than the way it's told.

So yeah, in the end, I think we share the same opinion overall : The Batman is a film with its heart in the right place (which is the most important considering where the genre is...) but it would probably have benefited from a more effective script, especially in its second act (your description is exactly what I get from it, Bruce getting information about his family feels far too expositional and rushed, almost to the point of feeling like a forced detour when it actually touches the very heart of the story).

There’s some real cliff notes stuff going on. The Bruce/Alfred dynamic has a ton of neat stuff going on under the hood but the actual scenes are a bit… Basic in their writing.

I share this sentiment.

Here again, I understand that the whole intention was to present a Bruce relatively closed to Alfred affection.
But the dramatic scenes between the two, though well acted, seemed to lack punch a bit as if they were build more on our knowledge of their relationship in general than on what is actually presented in the film. Hence that feeling of “missing scenes”.

But I fully expect this relationship to be well developed in the sequel. It's the logical continuation of Bruce's arc anyway.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I've felt this way a while, but especially now after seeing The Penguin, there is definitely a part of me that wishes this whole universe was just one big, sweeping HBO series. Though of course I do love the tradition of keeping Batman on the big screen too.

I would have agreed but The Penguin would have been so vastly better as a two hour movie that I have kinda reconsidered that opinion. Especially could have cut down on the interminable hacky cliche mob politics that show was overrun with (I could write an essay on how much better the mafia plot in The Batman is).

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I would have agreed but The Penguin would have been so vastly better as a two hour movie that I have kinda reconsidered that opinion. Especially could have cut down on the interminable hacky cliche mob politics that show was overrun with (I could write an essay on how much better the mafia plot in The Batman is).

Yeah, what works so beautiful could've been contained to 3 and, 3 1/2 hours. Oz and his mom being at the core of that. I think reducing Sofia's backstory to one therapy session or even short, intermittent flashbacks would've also worked better.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Matt has essentially a little over a month to have a final draft. That gives 6 months (probably less, it is a sequel with multiple main cast members returning) to get casting and other pre-production necessities done, 6ish months to film and probably the better part of 2026 for post-production.

We're still okay. For now

As some have said, it's if there's still no script at the start of 2025 where I'm gonna start getting concerned. Seeing as there were reports that Matt had "finished" the script, it's possible that came from Matt finishing the script in terms of writing to the end and we're now in redrafting phase. There's still time

You don't need a finished script to do a lot of the pre-production stuff.

 

[BatsAndNights]

You don't need a finished script to do a lot of the pre-production stuff.

Also true, but in terms of catapulting a big chunk of it, the finished script is what's gonna bookend that and more or less guarantee the current release date we've got as long as there's no other production troubles

(touch wood)

 

[BatLobster]

I would have agreed but The Penguin would have been so vastly better as a two hour movie that I have kinda reconsidered that opinion. Especially could have cut down on the interminable hacky cliche mob politics that show was overrun with (I could write an essay on how much better the mafia plot in The Batman is).

But imagine all that screentime in a scenario where Batman was actually the main character. It would be a different thing altogether if that was the anchor.

Purely hypothetical of course, but it's fun to wonder. Though personally I liked The Penguin a bit more than The Batman. It made this Gotham come alive for me in a way I wasn't expecting, and Colin and Cristin probably give the two best performances in this universe so far (IMO).