I'm Reading Your Stuff: General News and Discussion Thread

[DarthSkywalker]

Why the hostility? Jeez.

That's not hostility. It's blunt, but not hostile. And you ignored the point. Why would people who clearly don't know what they're talking about being wrong bolster your argument?

It's like saying well there are a lot of people on YT that say the Earth is flat and citing that as a reason why the Earth could be flat.

We've seen quality films flop in the last 5 years. Thunderbolts was a great MCU film - most who saw it agree to that. It bombed. Years ago, even the middling MCU films hit $1B.

This is why I say no film franchise/character is immune to lesser returns.

Thunderbolts aren't Batman. Beyond that, you're ignoring that Thunderbolts, and unknown quantity, failed at the box office in no small part because the MCU hasn't been considered good outside of a few projects for a long time. Hence, give the people what they want and fatigue will not set in.

I would also point out that the shift in China, Korea, and Russia has had a huge impact on the MCU. A lot of their movies that are grossing 400m, would've grossed 600-700m 7 years ago. These aren't issues of fatigue, but changes in cultures that Marvel can't control. Same with losing Boseman.

You just made the case that if a film is good, it will succeed. I don't think most people will argue the Jurassic films have been good for a long time.

In short; a film series consistently doing great at the BO is far more complex than simply 'being good'.

Begins' box-office didn't do as well as its quality suggested it should've.

I think Rebirth is terrific and the second best Jurassic movie. Audiences seemed to agree.

Begins issue wasn't Begins. It was what came before. It's why Batman was put on ice for so long. For Begins to show what you're saying, TDK would've had to fall off . It didn't.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Michael Seresin coming out of retirement prayer circle.

This is how I find out he did Prisoner of Azkaban and Step Up back to back and his last film was Gunpowder Milkshake.

 

[dhandler01]

I’m actually very curious how the audience responds to a cartoonier Batman movie in the DCU style. My long standing suspicious is that, for all of our almost universal exhaustion with grounded grittiness, the perception Batman is the dark edgy grounded big boy hero is a huge part of why he consistently breaks out even to people who don’t like superhero stuff.

Well to me I think it all comes down to who is making it and whether the story has credibility. I dont think you are going to see a bright and shiny Batman like Gunn's Superman...obviously Gotham is going to be a darker place than Metropolis. (if it is done right)

Batman in the cartoons (since you mentioned "cartoony") had no problems relating to the Justice League even though he was more "grounded" and definitely darker. It can be done if you have a director who gets how the relationship works. If Batman is running around like a goof it will fail. If he acts like a tactical leader and the opposite side of the coin of Superman (not a villain but a cynic) it will work perfect.

And lets not pretend all versions of Batman dont have some of the fantastical in them anyways...even Nolan.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I’m actually very curious how the audience responds to a cartoonier Batman movie in the DCU style. My long standing suspicious is that, for all of our almost universal exhaustion with grounded grittiness, the perception Batman is the dark edgy grounded big boy hero is a huge part of why he consistently breaks out even to people who don’t like superhero stuff.

This is an interesting point - maybe only a specific kind of Batman is more fatigue-proof. Which means it's not Batman as a whole, just one flavor of him. But I'm not so sure.

There have been discussions that Nolan and now Reeves have trained audiences to think only one type of Batman is valid; the grounded one without those 'silly' villains.

If I had to guess, I think that thanks to the Arkham series, animated films (and recent readers of the comics) there is an audience out there ready and willing to embrace a more DCU-style Batman. I believe the public would embrace the change if the film was great because it'd be different and fresh.

It could be a breath of fresh air like Superman '25 was for its titular character. If we can see audiences embrace that change on a less popular character, I think a DCU-style Batman would do great.

My concern is that it'll pit the Reeves-fans and DCU-fans in a war until the end of time of 'who is better' because of course people will take sides.

For a long time, I've kinda dunked on a lot of Batman fans for having this deep-rooted elitism; this idea that Batman's films/comics/games are so much more mature, serious and 'adult' than all the other cartoony, childish stuff that the plebs play with. To the point where they are so scared of veering even a little off the super-dark/serious style for fear of losing that status.

Critical acclaim is very important for Batman film fans and we saw that as far back as 2012 when the few critics who dared write a non-positive review for Rises were doxxed. I see critical acclaim cited with Reeves' film all the time, like some reassurance that we may like Batman but we have good film taste still.

I think Batman fans could lighten up a bit - and a DCU-style Batman film may be what the doctor ordered.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Well to me I think it all comes down to who is making it and whether the story has credibility. I dont think you are going to see a bright and shiny Batman like Gunn's Superman...obviously Gotham is going to be a darker place than Metropolis. (if it is done right)

Batman in the cartoons (since you mentioned "cartoony") had no problems relating to the Justice League even though he was more "grounded" and definitely darker. It can be done if you have a director who gets how the relationship works. If Batman is running around like a goof it will fail. If he acts like a tactical leader and the opposite side of the coin of Superman (not a villain but a cynic) it will work perfect.

And lets not pretend all versions of Batman dont have some of the fantastical in them anyways...even Nolan.

To clarify: I think they’re all super fantastical. Reeves and Nolan included. Their flavour of fantastical is just obviously different from most superhero stuff.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

To clarify: I think they’re all super fantastical. Reeves and Nolan included. Their flavour of fantastical is just obviously different from most superhero stuff.

Yeah. It's the difference between say, every single film in the Alien franchise. Same general idea, all very different in their flavor.

 

[dhandler01]

I think Rebirth is terrific and the second best Jurassic movie. Audiences seemed to agree.

Begins issue wasn't Begins. It was what came before. It's why Batman was put on ice for so long. For Begins to show what you're saying, TDK would've had to fall off . It didn't.

I cant speak to the quality, but it made 30 million less in the States than Dominion and it has a lower audience score on RT. I am not sure that tells me the audience liked the film all that much more than its predecessor.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

To clarify: I think they’re all super fantastical. Reeves and Nolan included. Their flavour of fantastical is just obviously different from most superhero stuff.

I remember watching the Dark Knight Trilogy a couple years ago and being shocked at how 'out there' it felt by today's grounded-standards.

I keep getting told repeatedly by other fans of The Batman that it's not fantastical in any way - but Batman takes a literal bomb and a bridge to the face in the span of a half hour and walks it off before taking gunfire point blank to the chest. While wearing his camera contact lenses.

It is its own flavor of fantastical, and that's okay.

 

[dhandler01]

Yeah. It's the difference between say, every single film in the Alien franchise. Same general idea, all very different in their flavor.

Which is why that franchise is one of my faves even if most of the films are not great. Ridley Scott and James Cameron cooked in completely different and awesome ways!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I cant speak to the quality, but it made 30 million less in the States than Dominion and it has a lower audience score on RT. I am not sure that tells me the audience liked the film all that much more than its predecessor.

Dominion was considered a death nail for the franchise. Rebirth didn't have the PLFs Dominion had either. That it lost less ground then Dominion did from Fallen Kingdom, showed that it not only stabilized the series, it lifted it.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I remember watching the Dark Knight Trilogy a couple years ago and being shocked at how 'out there' it felt by today's grounded-standards.

I keep getting told repeatedly by other fans of The Batman that it's not fantastical in any way - but Batman takes a literal bomb and a bridge to the face in the span of a half hour and walks it off before taking gunfire point blank to the chest. While wearing his eyeball contact lenses.

It is its own flavor of fantastical, and that's okay.

With regards to the trilogy: that’s the long shadow of The Dark Knight. It’s such a titanically influential film that people forget the Heat homage is sandwiched between two giant scale James Bond movies about evil Ninjas.

 

[Johnny Frost]

Involving Arkham seems like a very clever way to explore both the city's roots and corruption, as well as Bruce's psychology and family. It's both big and personal, and it just makes sense to me.

Also, Reeves implied that the old Arkham series "evolved" into something else. This is interesting because perhaps Reeves included aspects of the series in the film as they did with aspects of the old GCPD series in The Penguin.

 

[Luke995]

When I first saw this shot I thought Batman was saving children from the orphanage.

Now more than ever I would love to see this Batman going full-in with his paternal instinct saving children, maybe from Arkham experiments.
Something like Stryker from X-Men 2, but with Strange (or Jeremiah Arkham) and among them... Dick Grayson.

Plus, we saw Gotham's sewers in The Penguin, it would be awesome seeing a realistic version of Solomon Grundy.

 

[solidsnake86]

Great points made about Arkham and would make sense as they did go out of their way to make Martha an Arkham.

Come Wednesday, we are about 6 months out from production if it starts filming in April which is pretty exciting.

I'm curious to see if Reeves gives him a new vehicle or sticks with what we've seen already. Which I would be fine with because I'm a sucker for a great batmobile chase scene so I would love to see one again.

 

[J.Drangal]

I'm curious to see if Reeves gives him a new vehicle or sticks with what we've seen already. Which I would be fine with because I'm a sucker for a great batmobile chase scene so I would love to see one again.

I would be fine with the Batmobile not being too modified... and being showcased better than in the first movie.

Mind you, the chase scene was f***ing awesome, especially because of how claustrophobic it felt, but if we hadn't had promo material featuring the car, I might have missed just how great it looks.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Even though I don’t want the Reeves films to merge with the DCU, I just remembered that KRYPTO appeared in the original Hush arc.

So! If Reeves REALLY wants to make a faithful adaptation of that story, he can set it in the DCU!

 

[WayneMB]

court of owls being the "sike! corruption runs deeper! there's an evil cabal of owl people" rocks. i really don't get the aversion towards it from some of you. it's pulpy as hell. perfect for this universe.

 

[Johnny Frost]

court of owls being the "sike! corruption runs deeper! there's an evil cabal of owl people" rocks. i really don't get the aversion towards it from some of you. it's pulpy as hell. perfect for this universe.

I think the biggest thing is that unless there are major changes, the concept of the Court would sound a bit like the first one, a huge conspiracy where powerful people control the City from the shadows.

 

[Stringer]

Not really a spoiler but just in case, I did smile to myself a bit during One Battle After Another envisioning Penguin interviewing and conspiring in a room of similar fashion Reeves verse style.

 

[SupermansPal]

 

[SwordOfMorning]

PopFilm doesn't sound legit to me but this would be killer. Tobias Menzies is a great actor.

 

[SupermansPal]

And a deviation from the first movie where there wasn't any flashbacks, which is interesting.

 

[Mindreaper21]

court of owls being the "sike! corruption runs deeper! there's an evil cabal of owl people" rocks. i really don't get the aversion towards it from some of you. it's pulpy as hell. perfect for this universe.

It’s because we don’t need a “sike” right in the middle of the story. If there were any solid references to the court existing in the first film, I would have been all for it.

In this story, the Waynes and the Arkhams are the founding families. Then the mobs took over through renewal and eventually Falcone owned the city. Nothing in Gotham got past Falcone. Now that he’s out of the picture, there’s no telling what those that were under him has been up to.

Many people want this story to be something other than what is established simply because they “wanna see it”. I’m not saying that the Court wouldn’t fit nor am I saying they can’t exist. Matt said that the seeds for this film were planted in the first film and they aren’t there for the Court.

Also, even if the Court of Owls were the villains, I realized just how much this film would pretty closely resemble Batman Returns in some ways with the winter theme and Max Shreck.

 

[Boom]

I've never heard of that website before so I'm not sure it's worth the time of day.

All the same, I can't tell you how exciting it is to finally be entering legit casting rumor season again.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I've never heard of that website before so I'm not sure it's worth the time of day.

All the same, I can't tell you how exciting it is to finally be entering legit casting rumor season again.

Like seeing the first flowers bloom in the early days of Spring.