The Dark Knight Rises Improving Fight Scenes

[The Morningstar]

Well he did take a gut shot from Harvey at the end of TDK too. It must have missed the plates.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Well he did take a gut shot from Harvey at the end of TDK too. It must have missed the plates.

I doubt it went through. Harvey Dent/Two-Face shot Batman using a Smith & Wesson Model 64 revolver, which fires the .38 Special, a round that travels much more slowly (but has more mass) than a 9x19mm Parabellum round, which a standard vest would protect against.

When it comes to penetrating kevlar, mass isn't nearly as important as velocity, which is why a 5.56x45mm NATO round can penetrate a bullet-resistant vest that a 9x19mm NATO round (which has a more massive bullet, but it moves much slower than the 5.56) cannot. Hence, it's not very likely the .38 Special which Harvey fired at Batman would penetrate the kevlar mesh. However, while the kevlar absorbed the momentum of the bullet, the bullet's kinetic energy would not be stopped, and it leaves bruise, as well as causing pain. I think I read somewhere that, with a ballistic vest, being hit with a pistol round is like being hit with a baseball at something like 90 miles per hour. It hurts like hell, but you'll live, which is priority number one of body armor.

 

[regwec]

The HK fight scene was indeed a bit of a sloppy shambles, which is a shame because the sequence as a whole is fantastic. It looks absurd when one guard goes down after his colleague gently nudges his shoulder. I can't understand why they didn't do a few more takes.

Nolan's two weak spots: hot women and fighting. Amazing that he is so popular with us nerds!

 

[KrypJonian]

Universal Soldier: Regeneration had excellent fight scenes in it. I'm not sure who choreographed but it was done well.

I think it's a good parallel because it is brute strength and technique (Dolph) vs agility and technique (Van Damm). The size disparity between the two would probably be on par with what we imagine the size difference will be with Bane and Batman.

Have a look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Wn36lrQ3w - sorry there is an ugly advertisement dead center but you'll still be able to see it all.

edit: the above link is really violent at the end.

That was a cool ass fight scene, but if I had to hear one more "ceramic breaking" sound, I'd have written off the movie...

Wasn't Universal Soldier originally supposed to have been He-Man2?

 

[The Morningstar]

They were ok. The problem is people are too used to wirework, matrix esque fight scenes. The best "realistic" fight scenes are in the Bourne films. But Nolan is no Greengrass when it comes to fight scenes. Ideally he should have a second unit director who specializes in fight sequences to direct those segments of the film, but Nolan's ego won't allow that. He needs to run every element of the film. This isn't necessarily a bad thing b/c he's a good writer, producer, and director. But his weakness in shooting fight scenes sticks out like a sore thumb in the Batman films.

I don't think anyone expects wire work and Matrix esque fight scenes.

But Nolans fight scenes are just as unrealistic as those, but in a different way. They just look fake and obviously staged. There is no brutality or fluidity to them. It's like you can tell just by watching it that it's all planned out before hand.

Takes people out of the movie.

 

[The_Raganork]

If you want to talk about speed and strength but, without fanciful martial arts that make it look sort of like a martial arts movie (yes I know Bruce was trained by Ninjas but, still If he was fighting like Jet Lee I don't think it would like right) then I think Casino Royale's opening sequence is a good look. Brutal, strong, obvious, not one sided:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvr6uRvESvM

for a little more finesse Quantum of Solace offers this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4ZgXiHPXMs

I think the Bruteness and rawness fit batman..or maybe even Bane

 

[KRIM]

The Craig films closely mimicked Bourne's style. So yet again, we're back to what I think most people wanted in the first place; a Batman that can move and fight at least as good as Matt f----n Damon.

I'm surprised amidst all the the debate between fighting styles and shooting methods, the very fact that we haven't had a single, memorable, and eye-catching fight scene from the goddamn Batman has not unified fans in anger.

 

[regwec]

I quite liked the beat-up at Maroni's club. It actually used the need to conceal what was going on rather cleverly.

Anyway, can't we move all this to the "fight scenes" thread?

 

[truth]

Ha!

 

[The Morningstar]

The Craig films closely mimicked Bourne's style. So yet again, we're back to what I think most people wanted in the first place; a Batman that can move and fight at least as good as Matt f----n Damon.

I'm surprised amidst all the the debate between fighting styles and shooting methods, the very fact that we haven't had a single, memorable, and eye-catching fight scene from the goddamn Batman has not unified fans in anger.

I don't think the Bond movies copied the Bourne movies. Bond is much more brutish and and less finesse. Thoses fights posted suit the character of Bond. He isn't a master martial artist, he's just a hard bastard.

The opening scene in Casino Royale is just awesome. Shows both sides to Bond. The brutish, violent Bond. And the cool as a cucumber killer Bond.

 

[Piuchén]

It's a shame Nolan didn't go with the Filipino systems (Escrima/Silat/Kali) but the styles aren't very well known in Europe. They're just now going mainstream.

With Bale lacking athleticism, this would be a good fit for the film and the stunt crew. I know John Foo (who was apart of Batman Begins as a LoS member) and he would say how simplistic and unrealistic the fight scenes were. Hopefully Nolan listens to the constructive criticism and changes the way he shoots the fight scenes.

Even if you don´t like Keysi, it has some elements from filipino/indonesian system, well at least the elbows blocking, at least the kali/arnis I practiced did have a similar blocking...anyway I would like to see more thai in a brutal way.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Brutal is the defining word when it comes to what I want to see as far as fight scenes between Bane and Batman in this film.

Maybe if the fights are just one on one it'll be easier on the fight choreographer this time around, that or maybe they'll smarten up and get someone else to oversee the fight scenes. I guess we just have to wait and see.

 

[TheVileOne]

As far as the TDK fight scene, maybe the henchman didn't want to shoot Lau.

 

[The Morningstar]

He had a clean shot at Batman for at least 2 seconds though.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Even if you don´t like Keysi, it has some elements from filipino/indonesian system, well at least the elbows blocking, at least the kali/arnis I practiced did have a similar blocking...anyway I would like to see more thai in a brutal way.

Of course, Justo Diéguez is a certified TKD instructor under the great Dan Insanto. On top of that, Bruce Lee borrowed some techniques from the systems in Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines and instilled them into the TKD system. So, in that aspect, yes KFM has a similar countering style BUT that does not make the fighting system a reliable style for fighting or self-defense. It doesn't even look good or realistic on the big screen.

It's not like I didn't give the art a chance either. When I was living Valencia, Spain back in '09, I attended a dojo nearby and took several classes. Long story short, I do not enjoy the experience nor did I feel comfortable to use the system in a real fight. I'm not saying the art is a scam but it needs a lot of tweaking. And I think Justo realizes the flaws in the system he co-founded. He's taken time away from the system from what I can see. The website hasn't been updated in years and he's teaching TKD in Spain again.

I wouldn't mind seeing a little Muay Thai in the Batman flicks.

 

[Godzilla2014]

He had a clean shot at Batman for at least 2 seconds though.

True, but keep in mind that it was dark, and Batman is moving quite fast, so it could be pretty hard to hit him. Also, even if Batman were to be shot, the body armor would stop it.

 

[EliteF50]

True, but keep in mind that it was dark, and Batman is moving quite fast, so it could be pretty hard to hit him. Also, even if Batman were to be shot, the body armor would stop it.

It was dark, and Batman is moving quite fast

and Batman is moving quite fast

moving quite fast

No... he wasn't.

EDIT: Batman was two feet away, doesn't matter how fast he's going, and the new suit is vulnerable to knives and gunfire.

 

[camp Blood]

Is the Tom hardy thread still up, I had no part of the fight scene thing

 

[regwec]

Some posts were moved, I expect.

 

[Godzilla2014]

No... he wasn't.

EDIT: Batman was two feet away, doesn't matter how fast he's going, and the new suit is vulnerable to knives and gunfire.

The new suit is not that vulnerable to gunfire or knives, because if it was, then there would be no way in hell that Bruce would wear it out of the cave. It has military-grade ballistic protection, better than what most police officers wear. If they shot him with their MP5A2s the armor would stop the rounds before they could penetrate. That's how kevlar works.

 

[the dmg]

I can only dream of getting a fighting style like Taken or the Bourne films.

Agreed.

Even though the fight is on the more realistic side, I love the "Hallway Escape" fight, and the staircase fight from Tony Jaa's "The Protector." I wouldn't want something like that in a Batman movie, though.

EDIT:
I was referring to "Oldboy" for the hallway fight and as the realistic one.

 

[mano012sg]

As a martial artist myself, having fought in self-defence --> 3-6:1 (before I fully studied martial arts) and also a fan of analysing real and movie, animation fighting scenes ...
i agree that what was shown in BB and TDK was brutal, brawling. But if you take any hint from 'The Last Samurai' - starring Tom Cruise ... Batman from both movies was pure aggression and lack of style. By style - i don't mean posing, but i mean obvious fluidity & finess in performance.
Where were the twisting (aikido), body-shields(wrestling), eye jabs (JKD), smooth [not choppy full of effort] leg stomps, pressure point holds etc...?

There are guys who have done it better on film and real life: Bruce Lee was more efficient. Steven Seagal was smooth, Sammo Hung. You know, with enough practice ... your moves will personally smooth in real life in a fight.

Obviously i can;t give you a personal example ... but a well videoed example would that of Bruce Lee's videos (documentaries) or Steven Seagal's (aikido classes) videos.

For Christian Bale, it was all pure 'hand-biased' 'Thai-Boxing' & a part of keysi. As batman he needs a combination of Keysi's brutality with other martial arts styles in smooth motion.

 

[Piuchén]

Of course, Justo Diéguez is a certified TKD instructor under the great Dan Insanto. On top of that, Bruce Lee borrowed some techniques from the systems in Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines and instilled them into the TKD system. So, in that aspect, yes KFM has a similar countering style BUT that does not make the fighting system a reliable style for fighting or self-defense. It doesn't even look good or realistic on the big screen.

It's not like I didn't give the art a chance either. When I was living Valencia, Spain back in '09, I attended a dojo nearby and took several classes. Long story short, I do not enjoy the experience nor did I feel comfortable to use the system in a real fight. I'm not saying the art is a scam but it needs a lot of tweaking. And I think Justo realizes the flaws in the system he co-founded. He's taken time away from the system from what I can see. The website hasn't been updated in years and he's teaching TKD in Spain again.

I wouldn't mind seeing a little Muay Thai in the Batman flicks.

Thank´s for the insight because I almost buy the videos once just for curiosity but in self defense I think nothing is granted 100%, Ii love grappling arts but for flexibility and long legs Ii have used some kicks that are not recomended for "the street" even if my eperience in striking arts is very limited...

 

[Piuchén]

As a martial artist myself, having fought in self-defence --> 3-6:1 (before I fully studied martial arts) and also a fan of analysing real and movie, animation fighting scenes ...
i agree that what was shown in BB and TDK was brutal, brawling. But if you take any hint from 'The Last Samurai' - starring Tom Cruise ... Batman from both movies was pure aggression and lack of style. By style - i don't mean posing, but i mean obvious fluidity & finess in performance.
Where were the twisting (aikido), body-shields(wrestling), eye jabs (JKD), smooth [not choppy full of effort] leg stomps, pressure point holds etc...?

There are guys who have done it better on film and real life: Bruce Lee was more efficient. Steven Seagal was smooth, Sammo Hung. You know, with enough practice ... your moves will personally smooth in real life in a fight.

Obviously i can;t give you a personal example ... but a well videoed example would that of Bruce Lee's videos (documentaries) or Steven Seagal's (aikido classes) videos.

For Christian Bale, it was all pure 'hand-biased' 'Thai-Boxing' & a part of keysi. As batman he needs a combination of Keysi's brutality with other martial arts styles in smooth motion.

I don´t think anybody could move as smooth in that armour and Seagal got humillated by an older grappler once, of course his aikido looks much better on screen, that doesn´t mean he cannot be a good teacher (Anderson Silva ) but I don´t think he would look so smooth in real life as some people think.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I don't think the Bond movies copied the Bourne movies. Bond is much more brutish and and less finesse. Thoses fights posted suit the character of Bond. He isn't a master martial artist, he's just a hard bastard.

The opening scene in Casino Royale is just awesome. Shows both sides to Bond. The brutish, violent Bond. And the cool as a cucumber killer Bond.

Casino really didn't. QOS did, but more so in the pacing of the movie. The fights in Casino, while having some of the Bourne feel, were not as shaky-cam as the Bourne movies are. I loved the fights in CR. I would love if Nolan could get his to have the same feel.