The Dark Knight In Heath We Trust: A Ledgerbration: The TDK Joker Appreciation Thread

[Keyser Soze]

To get this topic back on track concerning the Joker, my mother told m,e she doesn't want to watch this film because of Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker and how she feels it's what caused his death. I think she's going to be missing out on a very good movie.

Obviously your mother's been watching too much Fox News. That's a nonsense BS story, that you can tell is going to grow into a big urban myth in the coming years.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

Obviously your mother's been watching too much Fox News. That's a nonsense BS story, that you can tell is going to grow into a big urban myth in the coming years.

I don't think it's that. She doesn't really watch Fox News at all. We were talking about this after Heath had died, long before Fox reported whatever they reported and she had the same estimation then that the intensity of the role drove him to dark place in his mind. I guess it's just that Heath's Joker kind of freaks her out because he is a much darker interpretation than the goofy Nicholson Joker.

 

[Bat-Mite]

I went to go see the new Indy movie with my father recently and he got to see the latest TDK trailer for the first time during that movie. Now he's really hyped to see it. He said that he liked how the Joker's makeup was running, and how they made him into a criminal that's actually believable. Even though I prefer a permawhite Joker, I can definitely see where he's coming from, and thought it was interesting to get the opinion of a non-Batfan on the matter.

 

[The Senator]

This may be a small point, but how could Jack have "raped" Ennis, when it was Ennis that was....erm....on top?

Jack was the one who started it, while Ennis was asleep.

Ennis, of course, eventually accepted the offer, once he woke up.

That's why I said "nearly raped."

 

[SheldonLevene]

I went to go see the new Indy movie with my father recently and he got to see the latest TDK trailer for the first time during that movie. Now he's really hyped to see it. He said that he liked how the Joker's makeup was running, and how they made him into a criminal that's actually believable. Even though I prefer a permawhite Joker, I can definitely see where he's coming from, and thought it was interesting to get the opinion of a non-Batfan on the matter.

My ma saw the trailer a few days ago and said, ew he looks nasty and why is it so dark. Needless to say I was just like I know and b/c dark is awesome.

 

[BatSpider]

My ma saw the trailer a few days ago and said, ew he looks nasty and why is it so dark. Needless to say I was just like I know and b/c dark is awesome.

That was the aim of the movie, the point is to scare the people of his character

 

[BatmanFanatic]

This may be a small point, but how could Jack have "raped" Ennis, when it was Ennis that was....erm....on top?

Yah...exactly.

To get this topic back on track concerning the Joker, my mother told m,e she doesn't want to watch this film because of Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker and how she feels it's what caused his death. I think she's going to be missing out on a very good movie.

Wow, thats odd.

Jack was the one who started it, while Ennis was asleep.

Ennis, of course, eventually accepted the offer, once he woke up.

That's why I said "nearly raped."

Nearly raped? Is that like somewhat pregnant? Jumbo shrimp? Army intelligence?

They were both asleep. Twist snuggled up to Ennis because it was flippn' cold outside. Ennis woke up and freaked out, throwing off his arm. Twist looked deeply into his eyes and then planted a kiss on him. Twist shoved him off, again, freaked out at the experience, being as repressed as he was, but Twist could tell that they had something going between the two of them, and so he continued kissing him.

Three seconds later Ennis attacks Twist, rips off clothes and jumps on top.

Thats not even remotely close to Twist being a sexual predator or attempting rape. And he never attempted to have sex with Ennis while Ennis was asleep. You did actually *watch* the scene, right?

 

[The Senator]

Nearly raped? Is that like somewhat pregnant? Jumbo shrimp? Army intelligence?

They were both asleep. Twist snuggled up to Ennis because it was flippn' cold outside. Ennis woke up and freaked out, throwing off his arm. Twist looked deeply into his eyes and then planted a kiss on him. Twist shoved him off, again, freaked out at the experience, being as repressed as he was, but Twist could tell that they had something going between the two of them, and so he continued kissing him.

Three seconds later Ennis attacks Twist, rips off clothes and jumps on top.

Thats not even remotely close to Twist being a sexual predator or attempting rape. And he never attempted to have sex with Ennis while Ennis was asleep. You did actually *watch* the scene, right?

You act as if there's only one way to interpret the scene... obviously, that isn't the case, as I and others have come up with a different interpretation than yours... and, the way it came off to me, Twist definitely had a predator vibe going on there, acting without thinking about all the possible consequences of his actions...

 

[SheldonLevene]

That was the aim of the movie, the point is to scare the people of his character

Lol yeah, that's what I told her.

 

[SPIDERMAN117]

I wonder if Heath's Joker will open the door for more chilling comic book villians performences in the future?

 

[BatmanFanatic]

You act as if there's only one way to interpret the scene... obviously, that isn't the case, as I and others have come up with a different interpretation than yours... and, the way it came off to me, Twist definitely had a predator vibe going on there, acting without thinking about all the possible consequences of his actions...

Well it seems like, at least on these boards, you are the only one to take that position. Oh, I forgot the baptist church. So basically, you and them are on this boat protesting against the scene, and everyone else is fine with it.

Doesn't that tell you anything?

 

[inflames]

Why is it that if your not overtly open to homosexuality or you were raised the opposite of someone who is your a narrow minded idiot and thinks gays = evil? seems a bit hypocritical. I don't care if people are gay or straight, it's their life not mine it doesn't effect me any but I'm not sure if it's right from or 'natural' from my perspective and the way I view my beliefs in God but to say someone is an idiot or stupid or narrow minded just because they might not believe in it is weird. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make you a 'hick queer killer'.

 

[The Senator]

Well it seems like, at least on these boards, you are the only one to take that position. Oh, I forgot the baptist church. So basically, you and them are on this boat protesting against the scene, and everyone else is fine with it.

Doesn't that tell you anything?

Now you're acting like a total asstard.

My argument against this scene in no way puts me on the same level as the WBO. I have not called for a boycott of this movie, I have not said that all homosexuals deserve to burn in hell because of this one scene which I disagree with because of how it was initiated.

I wouldn't care at all had Twist not 'made his move' while Del Mar was asleep. Had he been conscious, I would not be arguing this with you whatsoever.

The WBO would be arguing against this regardless of how the scene was initiated. The pure thought of two men having sex with one another would send them into a furious outrage.

This part of your argument is wholly without merit. You're the one grasping for straws here-- trying to be as "controversial" as possible by comparing me to a vicious group which exists solely on hateful grounds. Never once did I say anything which mirrors the rhetoric of the WBO.



I'm sorry I don't idolize this film as if it was the greatest thing ever. I never once said that I hated this film, and I've praised it numerous times over the past several pages. My beef is with one scene, one scene alone-- and you have the nerve to compare me with the WBO because I disagree with you. Yeah, this homosexual certainly supports the actions of a group which exists solely to silence me and my comrades. I must be a "self-hating homosexual" then, because I disagree with how one scene in one movie was initiated.



Pathetic.

 

[The Senator]

Why is it that if your not overtly open to homosexuality or you were raised the opposite of someone who is your a narrow minded idiot and thinks gays = evil? seems a bit hypocritical. I don't care if people are gay or straight, it's their life not mine it doesn't effect me any but I'm not sure if it's right from or 'natural' from my perspective and the way I view my beliefs in God but to say someone is an idiot or stupid or narrow minded just because they might not believe in it is weird. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make you a 'hick queer killer'.

The sad thing is, I'm gay, and I've voiced my opposition to one scene in a movie which I felt was not as excellent as some people have hyped it to be. I felt that this scene could be interpreted negatively. Sitting through this in the theater made me uncomfortable watching the 'tent scene.' And when I see it again on TV or on DVD (because, uh, I own this movie which I am so adamantly against so I can be reminded of how much I hate it ), I feel the same way about that one scene.

I don't see why that's such a big flippin' deal.

I'm not the only person who feels this way. Two gay friends of mine have the exact same feelings on the scene as I do!

But, have I discredited the merit of this film as a vivid piece of art? Not at all-- in fact, I've praised it for such greatness, and I've praised the performances of Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal.

However, because I disagree with how one scene played out, and I believe the film was overhyped, that puts me on the same level as the WBO

That's seeping to an awfully low level right there. Apparently, myself and others are not allowed to disagree with popular opinion, or else we're in the same boat as the hateful WBO.

 

[deathfromabove]

Now you're acting like a total asstard.

My argument against this scene in no way puts me on the same level as the WBO. I have not called for a boycott of this movie, I have not said that all homosexuals deserve to burn in hell because of this one scene which I disagree with because of how it was initiated.

I wouldn't care at all had Twist not 'made his move' while Del Mar was asleep. Had he been conscious, I would not be arguing this with you whatsoever.

The WBO would be arguing against this regardless of how the scene was initiated. The pure though of two men having sex with one another would send them into a furious outrage.

This part of your argument is wholly without merit. You're the one grasping for straws here-- trying to be as "controversial" as possible by comparing me to a vicious group which exists solely on hateful grounds. Never once did I say anything which mirrors the rhetoric of the WBO.



I'm sorry I don't idolize this film as if it was the greatest thing ever. I never once said that I hated this film, and I've praised it numerous times over the past several pages. My beef is with one scene, one scene alone-- and you have the nerve to compare me with the WBO because I disagree with you. Yeah, this homosexual certainly supports the actions of a group which exists solely to silence me and my comrades. I must be a "self-hating homosexual" then, because I disagree with how one scene in one movie was initiated.



Pathetic.

obviously there is a difference of opinion here. i didnt really get a predator vibe either (impetuous maybe, but i digress...) but i agree with the jman on one point. a difference of opinion is not an excuse to belittle or condescend. unfortunately that seems to be batmanfanatics m.o. around here.

i suggest you try and ignore her spice. she once said she didnt want catwoman to be "some dyke" and that fans of stanley kubrick were mysogynistic perverts so her record on sensitivity and um... judgement is pretty iffy.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Now you're acting like a total asstard.

My argument against this scene in no way puts me on the same level as the WBO. I have not called for a boycott of this movie, I have not said that all homosexuals deserve to burn in hell because of this one scene which I disagree with because of how it was initiated.

I wouldn't care at all had Twist not 'made his move' while Del Mar was asleep. Had he been conscious, I would not be arguing this with you whatsoever.

The WBO would be arguing against this regardless of how the scene was initiated. The pure thought of two men having sex with one another would send them into a furious outrage.

This part of your argument is wholly without merit. You're the one grasping for straws here-- trying to be as "controversial" as possible by comparing me to a vicious group which exists solely on hateful grounds. Never once did I say anything which mirrors the rhetoric of the WBO.



I'm sorry I don't idolize this film as if it was the greatest thing ever. I never once said that I hated this film, and I've praised it numerous times over the past several pages. My beef is with one scene, one scene alone-- and you have the nerve to compare me with the WBO because I disagree with you. Yeah, this homosexual certainly supports the actions of a group which exists solely to silence me and my comrades. I must be a "self-hating homosexual" then, because I disagree with how one scene in one movie was initiated.



Pathetic.

First of all, there is no need for name calling here. Secondly, she didn't compare you to Westboro. She compared you to the Baptist church in general. The Westboro church is VERY different from your average Baptist church (though there are a lot of ignorant Baptist churches out there).

 

[Crook]

Why is it that if your not overtly open to homosexuality or you were raised the opposite of someone who is your a narrow minded idiot and thinks gays = evil? seems a bit hypocritical. I don't care if people are gay or straight, it's their life not mine it doesn't effect me any but I'm not sure if it's right from or 'natural' from my perspective and the way I view my beliefs in God but to say someone is an idiot or stupid or narrow minded just because they might not believe in it is weird. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make you a 'hick queer killer'.

Since those are the terms I've used previously, I'm gonna assume this was directed at me. For the record, my statements were directed at those that are vehement on voicing their anti-gay tirade and cease to leave people be.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I wouldn't care at all had Twist not 'made his move' while Del Mar was asleep. Had he been conscious, I would not be arguing this with you whatsoever.

Dude, did you see the same movie or what? TWIST NEVER MADE HIS MOVE WHILE DEL MAR WAS ASLEEP.

They were BOTH asleep, and it was freezing cold, and Twist IN HIS SLEEP, UNCONSCIOUS snuggled up to Del Mar. Then Del Mar WOKE UP, THREW OFF HIS ARM, and JUMPED AWAY, which then WOKE UP TWIST.

 

[Nepenthes]

The sad thing is, I'm gay, and I've voiced my opposition to one scene in a movie which I felt was not as excellent as some people have hyped it to be. I felt that this scene could be interpreted negatively. Sitting through this in the theater made me uncomfortable watching the 'tent scene.' And when I see it again on TV or on DVD (because, uh, I own this movie which I am so adamantly against so I can be reminded of how much I hate it ), I feel the same way about that one scene.

I don't see why that's such a big flippin' deal.

I'm not the only person who feels this way. Two gay friends of mine have the exact same feelings on the scene as I do!

But, have I discredited the merit of this film as a vivid piece of art? Not at all-- in fact, I've praised it for such greatness, and I've praised the performances of Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal.

However, because I disagree with how one scene played out, and I believe the film was overhyped, that puts me on the same level as the WBO

That's seeping to an awfully low level right there. Apparently, myself and others are not allowed to disagree with popular opinion, or else we're in the same boat as the hateful WBO.

^ You're on a moral highhorse. If you genuinly believe the things you say then you must have a poor understanding of what people are actually like. the way we behave in real life, not in some idealised world where we are descended from angels and all movies are nice and fuzzy and nothing ambiguous or confronting ever occurs. Especially not involving gay people. sorry if i'm getting personal but I have to say that in my opinion someone who talks like that would be a poor excuse for an activist.

 

[inflames]

Since those are the terms I've used previously, I'm gonna assume this was directed at me. For the record, my statements were directed at those that are vehement on voicing their anti-gay tirade and cease to leave people be.

Actually it wasn't I have been reading and skimming through the argument and just used what I saw, I didn't even know who said it I just saw it, Sorry.

 

[Crook]

Dude, did you see the same movie or what? TWIST NEVER MADE HIS MOVE WHILE DEL MAR WAS ASLEEP.

They were BOTH asleep, and it was freezing cold, and Twist IN HIS SLEEP, UNCONSCIOUS snuggled up to Del Mar. Then Del Mar WOKE UP, THREW OFF HIS ARM, and JUMPED AWAY, which then WOKE UP TWIST.

Wow, was that really how it happened? I hadn't seen it in a while, so I just took his word for it that Ennis was sleep.

Actually it wasn't I have been reading and skimming through the argument and just used what I saw, I didn't even know who said it I just saw it, Sorry.

Well like I said, 3 of the things you mentioned I definitely remember typing in this thread, so it probably was me. But whatever, it doesn't matter. I just wanted to clear up my stance a bit further.

 

[The Senator]

First of all, there is no need for name calling here. Secondly, she didn't compare you to Westboro. She compared you to the Baptist church in general. The Westboro church is VERY different from your average Baptist church (though there are a lot of ignorant Baptist churches out there).

If she's talking about the Baptist church in general, I don't see how she has a point. Because the Baptist church, like many other Christian faiths, are explicitly against homosexuality. And many other churches in numerous denominations are against the sort of behavior in this movie-- it's not solely confined to the Baptist ideology. Considering I am gay, I don't see how it makes sense in the least bit to suggest that I stand with them on this movie.

My opinion is nowhere near comparable to the opinion of any Christian opposition to this film, considering I am opposed to the initiation of one scene.

So, she's still grasping for straws, even if she is talking about the mainstream Baptist church, considering I don't stand by them.

 

[inflames]

Wow, was that really how it happened? I hadn't seen it in a while, so I just took his word for it that Ennis was sleep.


Well like I said, 3 of the things you mentioned I definitely remember typing in this thread, so it probably was me. But whatever, it doesn't matter. I just wanted to clear up my stance a bit further.

thats cool

 

[The Senator]

^ You're on a moral highhorse. If you genuinly believe the things you say then you must have a poor understanding of what people are actually like. the way we behave in real life, not in some idealised world where we are descended from angels and all movies are nice and fuzzy and nothing ambiguous or confronting ever occurs. Especially not involving gay people. sorry if i'm getting personal but I have to say that in my opinion someone who talks like that would be a poor excuse for an activist.

I'm not really on a moral high horse. The way I saw it, the way I interpreted it, the way others have interpreted it-- Twist was awake, Del Mar was asleep, and he started something on his own. I fail to see how disagreeing with the way that scene unfolded puts me on a moral high horse.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I'm not really on a moral high horse. The way I saw it, the way I interpreted it, the way others have interpreted it-- Twist was awake, Del Mar was asleep, and he started something on his own. I fail to see how disagreeing with the way that scene unfolded puts me on a moral high horse.

Because they were both asleep, and no one did anything to anyone else while they were asleep?

Honestly, you are reading the replies instead of just repeating yourself over and over again, right? Which film did you see exactly?