In hindsight what changes would you do

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight Rises' started by DeGenerate10, Nov 11, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    11,690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Batman is not the judicial system though, he can't predict what will actually happen to him.

    Joker killed MANY cops. The death penalty would certainly be on the table if it was legal in Gotham. He could have also potentially been tried as a federal criminal. The prosecution would be trying to prove that he was fully cognizant of his actions at every turn, and it took the mind of a criminal genius to plot out what he did. Oh sure, Joker would plead insanity but if you're looking at it realistically, it would be a very long trial with a lot of questions in the air.
     
    #976
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  2. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    49,570
    Likes Received:
    110
    Batman is just the mouth piece telling the audience the inevitable fate of the Joker.

    Hannibal Lecter killed loads of people by eating them. He ended up in an asylum. He was as smart as they come, educated, refined, a successful shrink, but he just had a taste for flesh.

    Joker dressed like a clown, had smile scars that could be self inflicted, posts torture videos on TV, plays psycho mind games with ferries full of people, Jokerizes the faces of his victims, turns a city into chaos by threatening to blow up a hospital just because he wants to keep Batman around for fun, and burns huge piles of money.

    Not to mention everyone and their mother calls him crazy or a psychopath at some point in the movie.
     
    #977
  3. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    11,690
    Likes Received:
    0
    And that gives them all Ph.Ds? He's crazy like a fox, as they say.

    Joker, to me this is just like the child spy argument that you were making about the Ra's/Talia thing. I'm not going to pretend the death penalty doesn't exist in this world and that it wouldn't be a possibility for someone like The Joker. I'm not even trying to argue that it IS what happened to him, I'm just saying it's as much a possibility as anything, especially when you're dealing with a cop killer, and someone with hundreds if not thousands of attempted murder charges. A full-on domestic terrorist. I like the novel's idea about him being the last Arkham inmate. But as per the movies, we have no concrete way of knowing what happened to The Joker...other than that he wasn't in Blackgate.

    Semi-related, but a lot of what's going on with the James Holmes case now has to do with whether he will plead insanity or not as an attempt to avoid the death penalty. But if he does, it will go under heavy scrutiny and could backfire.
     
    #978
  4. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    49,570
    Likes Received:
    110
    No, it's Nolan's trademark exposition telling the audience that the Joker is crazy.

    I'm not arguing it's impossible either. I'm arguing what is the most likely given everything we were shown and TOLD in TDK. Nolan bent over backwards to let the audience know Joker was crazy, even having Batman throw in a line about Joker ending up in a padded cell at the end. It doesn't matter if he killed Cops or not. Lecter killed Cops. Plenty of psychos have killed Cops and ended up in a padded room.

    I've no idea who that is or the ins and outs of the case, but I doubt who ever he is that his list of crazy antics doesn't even match to Joker's.
     
    #979
  5. Marvin

    Marvin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    19,612
    Likes Received:
    0
    Realistically, batman ends up in jail after the central intelligence get a hold of his paper work as it moves up the judicial ranks.

    In the Batman universe(even nolan has to play), the mentally unstable costumed folk end up in an Asylum. Hell even Falcone ended up there.

    To think joker would stand trail for more than 4 days is beyond anything in the comics...and for good reason.
     
    #980
  6. Travesty

    Travesty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    22,516
    Likes Received:
    14
    "yourllll be in arr purdurded cereal furever!!!"
     
    #981
  7. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    0
    He's the sick bastard responsible for the Colorado shootings last July.
     
    #982
  8. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    11,690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay, fair enough. Though I tend to think Joker's "No, I'm not." is one of his more honest moments in the film. I think Joker was too aware and too calculating to be considered truly insane, but then again the "super sane" interpretation has always been a preferred one for me. A sociopath for sure, but that doesn't make him insane.

    It's the Aurora shooter, the guy who identified himself as "The Joker" and showed up in court with his hair dyed. That's why I brought him up. Obviously it's no comparison to the fictional character, but it seemed relevant to bring him up as he's the most current real life parallel.
     
    #983
  9. ThePhantasm

    ThePhantasm 2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    19,337
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually they kinda do, unfortunately.
     
    #984
  10. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    49,570
    Likes Received:
    110
    Oh that guy. Well he should definitely not skate on an insanity plea.
     
    #985
  11. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    49,570
    Likes Received:
    110
    Naturally he would deny he was crazy to the mob. He was trying to sell his services to them and get them to see things his way over the Batman problem. He admits he's crazy to Batman at the end remember: "I took Gotham's White Knight and I brought him down to OUR level. It wasn't hard. See madness as you know is like gravity. All it takes is a little push".

    No, they don't. As terrible as those theater shootings were, it's no comparison to what Joker did to a whole city.
     
    #986
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  12. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    11,690
    Likes Received:
    0
    To be fair, I kind of think The Joker is beyond simple definitions of "crazy" and "sane". He sees the world differently, but to him he's the only one who "gets the joke" and thinks everyone else is crazy for not being crazy...if that makes sense.

    That's why he's such a great character. You could make a compelling argument for either case.
     
    #987
  13. MaxPalombella

    MaxPalombella New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just wanted to ask you guys on your thoughts on something.
    I have been thinking about this for a while now (a bit too much time on my hands) and this concerns the final chapter of the Dark Knight trilogy, as in "Rises". I loved it when I went to see it. Stunned by the visuals and performances. Hardy as Bane was incredible and Bale gave hands down his best performance, as did everyone else! Yet the more I think on it, the more i realized that there was something wrong with it and I think you guys must have noticed it to. The story wasn't finished.

    Now don't get me wrong! I really love the Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy, it's one of my favourites BUT it should have been four films. As in four points to bring Bruce Wayne full circle! Hardy as Bane was a powerhouse performance but his reveal as a love struck henchman was a total miss-step in my opinion. Marion Cotiliard as Talia al Ghul was completely underused and could have been so much more. She needed to have been Bruce Waynes actual girlfriend from the start of Rises and a chance for Bruce to live happily, finally.
    Miranda Tate reveals herself near the end as Talia, but instead they could have left that reveal until the very end of the film, when she flees Gotham and lives to fight another day. Batman did NOT need to "die" and could have ended Rises with him asking Robin in the cave "if he was ready to begin?" (like Ras al Ghul did to Wayne). Batman had YEARS of training with ninjas (under Liam freaking Neeson).

    Blake was a policeman, and now he is suddenly supposed to be BATMAN? He would be dead in days! They should have then set the fourth and final film with Batman and Robin (who is now trained by Bruce himself) struggling to fight Talia and her army. She then reveals that she was pregnant and now they have a young son, Damian. By the end of it, Talia would have been defeated, Robin would have truly earned his place as the new Batman, and Bruce Wayne would step down to be a father to his son, Damian. FULL CIRCLE!

    Nolan is no doubt a brilliant story-teller and filmmaker but he really missed something there. Perhaps he simply wanted to move on and make more films like Inception (and I'm ok with that frankly!). Who knows what the DC universe holds, but all I do know is God help the man who follows Mr Nolan.
     
    #988
  14. BatmanGoesToRio

    BatmanGoesToRio Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very nice. Now that's a plot I would have liked to see. Much, much better than what we got.
     
    #989
  15. JackWhite

    JackWhite Third Man

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,597
    Likes Received:
    0
    As much as I wish the legend of Bane being born in the prison, instead of Talia, were true, having Ra's save both Bruce and Bane from a prison and being emotionally lost is far too good a parallel to pass up.
     
    #990
  16. batfreakforever

    batfreakforever A real fan

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good call.
     
    #991
  17. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17,997
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, definitely. I don't think I'd personally enjoy TDKR as much if the LoS wasn't in the film as to me, it just fit that the LoS were brought back. And Bruce and Bane having all these parallels as well as Talia even being a dark mirrored version of Rachel was a nice touch to end the trilogy.
     
    #992
  18. Mjölnir

    Mjölnir Guest

    Joined:
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would certainly have wanted Bane to be the sole leader of the operation. The revelation of Talia just makes Bane come off as far lesser character than you had thought up to that point and Talia herself didn't really bring anything interesting in herself. Not that she really had time to do it either.
     
    #993
  19. OutRiddled

    OutRiddled Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't like Nolan's style that brings to Batman, so I cannot suggest anything that would change to make them better.

    Maybe if the script was tightened up a lot and many useless characters and subplots deleted it might have been more coherent. In that case I would eliminate Robin, Catwoman, the police guy played by Matthew Modine, and a bunch of other useless characters. I would give the Catwoman role to Talia. Make Dagget a Max Schreck like villain representing the evil corporate interests of Gotham City (instead what we got was just some *****ebag). Don't have Batman retiring, that's just dumb. Get rid of the 'Harvey Dent Act' because that doesn't make sense (how is there no more crime?). Give Bane back his Venom, instead of painkillers (LAME). Don't have Batman fake his death. Show more of the anarchy in Gotham.

    A bunch of things, really. Most everything was done wrong in this movie..
     
    #994
  20. BCDawg97

    BCDawg97 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    :whatever: Thanks for the post. At least you'll always have the Schumacher films...
     
    #995
  21. The Techno Bat

    The Techno Bat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Messages:
    1,603
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wouldn't change much in the Nolan Trilogy except for:

    Batman's voice in TDK & TDKR.... they should have kept it on the level of Batman Begins, the Batman voice was just right in that film.

    At the end of TDKR, instead of John Blake's legal name being Robin, it should have been Richard Grayson. Granted most people might not have gotten the name, but us hardcore fans would have, and it would have been a nice nod to us :)
     
    #996
  22. DACrowe

    DACrowe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2000
    Messages:
    30,211
    Likes Received:
    7
    Would you really want that?

    "You should use your full name. I like it. Dick."

    That scene would have played out very differently.
     
    #997
  23. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    11,690
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lol, I thought the same thing.
     
    #998
  24. milost

    milost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Imagine an ACTUAL court scene of the Joker's trial if Ledger was still around for a third Batman film. How he'd make a mockery of it, the funny gestures and ticks, cleverly outsmarting everyone with a clever tongue, chilling with his attorney, challenging the jury, getting the insanity plea, bringing up Batman, possibly Dent.
     
    #999
  25. The Joker

    The Joker The Clown Prince of Crime

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    49,570
    Likes Received:
    110
    That would have been glorious.

    Judge: "You may cross examine the defendant"
    Joker: "Oh I hope it won't be a CROSS examination"

    :hoboj:
     
    #1000
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"