Interstellar - Part 5

[Spider-Fan]

Looks like we have maximum trollage in here.

 

[BatLobster]

I like Nolan, but these Kubrick comparisons are always ridiculous. Outside of both directors being considered "cold" and dismissive of the female characters , they are nothing alike. Either the process itself (Kubrick was as rigid as it gets , Nolan is extremely loose in form) or the films , they really don't have a lot in common.

The other similar denominator is that Warner probably funds almost everything he'll make in the future like they did with Kubrick (well not everything). But that's kinda it.

The fact that Nolan cites Kubrick as his favorite director and a huge influence probably only adds fuel to that fire.

But I agree, they're very, very different. Interstellar will probably demonstrate better than anything.

 

[Travesty]

Yeah, they're nothing alike, but they both have Illuminati ties, and are working for the NWO in order to deceive us from what is really going on. So there's that...

 

[Tequilla]

How did Kubrick get Warners to fund his projects anyways? Considering they weren't mainstream friendly like Tarantino's. Look at guys like PTA now. He has to break his back to fund his projects. Aronofsky's got a lucky break with Black Swan; he doesn't have to worry about funding for a while. Poor PTA. The most talented filmmaker in the world and nobody wants to spend money on his projects.

They liked him t:

He had some successes , Warner wanted him to make projects exclusively with them , and they ended up making a deal.

Another similarity is pushing always the concept of providing the audience with the best experience they can have in a movie theater.

(stolen from reddit) a letter sent to all projectionists by Kubrick

http://i.imgur.com/g8NCkO5.jpg

But once again this is tangent to the movies itself.

 

[BatLobster]

lol Trav

 

[James.B]

 

[Persona]

i would say Nolan's films are a bit loose in the editing but they are pretty formalist in terms of the compositions, mise en scene, etc. obviously, he's nowhere near as formal as Kubrick, one of the most uncompromising stylists in the history of the medium (him, Tarkovsky, Bresson, Bergman), but he's a lot more rigid about a film's aesthetic than a lot of his peers, especially the ones in Hollywood.

but, no, other than being a somewhat cerebral director with a fairly distinct style and who's had some big budgets to work with...the Kubrick comparisons don't really fly. i wouldn't say this about Refn's other films but Only God Forgives is probably the guiltiest Kubrick impersonation i've seen in a very long time.

 

[Faora]

Beautiful!

 

[Anita18]

You say that as if there is a 2001 every year.

No lies detected.

 

[Deserana]

i would say Nolan's films are a bit loose in the editing but they are pretty formalist in terms of the compositions, mise en scene, etc. .

Really? I'd consider editing one of Nolan's strength. TDKR granted is actually quite poor in terms of editing but Inception and in particular Memento relies on it's editing to get the best out of the story.

 

[Persona]

i'm not saying "loose" as an inherently negative thing, simply that Nolan doesn't apply quite as many stylistic strictures or quite as much of a perfectionist attitude to the editing of his films as i feel he does to some of the other aspects. that said, even with editing he does things like trying to minimize the number of cross dissolves, which is certainly a touch i appreciate since those types of transitions often annoy me in the hands of lesser directors.

and i would agree that Memento is a fairly tightly edited film. in the case of that film it had to be, like you were saying. i feel like with Nolan's bigger films the story requirements aren't quite as demanding of the editing in that way and are more about juggling a lot of plot and character balls at once, which is where i think Nolan gives his editors some breathing room to sacrifice a little bit of precision or his aesthetic preferences for the sake of scope and narrative breadth.

 

[Persona]

i would also agree, though, that TDKR is not a very well-edited film compared to the rest of his body of work, and while it is a movie that i like a good bit, i think that the editing is its biggest flaw. you can tell how thought-out the final montage was in Chris' head, though, cuz that bit was just about perfect on every level. that and the first fight with Bane.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The problem with the editing and overall pacing goes back to the script. The story just dragged throughout, and I do not see how even editing legends like Thelma or Stuart Baird would've been able to make the film more engaging.

 

[Persona]

i dunno, i thought there was a lot of engaging material in that story/script. it was just overstuffed or certain parts weren't as clearly devised and executed as they should have been. editing can fix a lot of that.

i dunno what footage they had to work with, maybe what they shot limited the results, but the final battle in Gotham was pretty woefully edited. it didn't really feel like a setpiece, more like a random assortment of semi-cool shots. i'd like to think that given more thought/time in the editing room that final battle could have been salvaged into a respectable action climax.

 

[Anita18]

TDKR suffered from too much story stuffed into runtime too short for it. But it didn't drag for me - it was more just all over the place. It felt like it got away from him, whereas his other films are more tightly contained, even Inception. But it wasn't like a Pirates or Matrix sequel, not even close.

I do think for Nolan, editing and script almost go hand in hand. His final films don't deviate too much from his shooting scripts. You don't make up a film like Memento or Inception solely in the editing room. Editing for him, seems to be more of a detailed thing, focusing on the beats rather than the actual structure. But those detailed beats are important for the audience to comprehend the story too, especially for Memento and Inception. But a huge chunk of it is written into the script.

 

[BatLobster]

That's the thing- I feel like a lot of people who critique editing in movies are rarely actually talking about the craft of editing. Editing takes place on the script level too.

There are rare cases when exceptional editing manages to elevate the material, of course. But it's rare that the so-called editing "problems" of movies are actually the editor's fault. Of course Nolan himself did give a lot of credit to Lee Smith for making the third act of Inception coherent. He said it was incomprehensible in the assembly cut form.

And just for the record, I'm a huge fan of TDKR...I think another 10-15 minutes of runtime could've helped make it even greater, but I also don't think it's 'broken' as is. Still a great movie, Nolan's most emotionally enaging to date IMO. Though I think that's about to change.

 

[Farren]

The problem with the editing and overall pacing goes back to the script. The story just dragged throughout, and I do not see how even editing legends like Thelma or Stuart Baird would've been able to make the film more engaging.

IA. I feel that way about a lot of Nolan's films tbh even though I do like his work.

Although I also think the actual editing itself in most of them (Inception and Memento aside) isn't that stellar either. But I'm not really sure who to pin that on, the editor or the filmmaker. There's only so much an editor can do with the material they are given.

 

[Anita18]

IA. I feel that way about a lot of Nolan's films tbh even though I do like his work.

Although I also think the actual editing itself in most of them (Inception and Memento aside) isn't that stellar either. But I'm not really sure who to pin that on, the editor or the filmmaker. There's only so much an editor can do with the material they are given.

From the reused shots in TDK's last fight scene, Nolan strikes me as the kind of director who'd rather work with the footage he has instead of taking the time/money/effort to do reshoots. He's not a perfectionist like Kubrick was, in that regard.

But that's why producers and studios love him, because he always gets things in time and under budget.

I'd still argue his movies have "good" editing. Not the absolute greatest because of the "Well, it'll work!" reason I stated above, but you don't get an audience on board with Memento or Inception unless the editing is pretty damn good.

 

[jmc]

Those two films live and die by their editing.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, those two films more than most for sure.

I think he has a strong command of storytelling on a pretty fundamental level, and that's where a lot of his strengths derive from. He clearly has a handle on how to unspool a narrative in the most engrossing of ways for an audience, and he always hones in on the most interesting part of an idea, takes it to its logical extreme and squeezes every last drop of juice out of it.

Editing and rhythm (and music) no doubt play a big role in that propulsive feeling his films often have, and I think that's more of where Nolan's concerns as a filmmaker lie. If it feels right, that's vastly more important than if there's a continuity error here and there. It's not like that's just his approach, it's very much the Walter Murch school of thought.

 

[Deserana]

Exactly. I'm very surprised about the response. My university course does a whole unit of editing and it uses Memento as the basis of it. I know that may mean nothing but I know quite a few uni's use it. Yes the editing is helped by the script but... that is pretty much the same for every film. You write the cut version as you picture it on screen.

It's totally another thing to go to the editing room, take random footage that includes pauses and multiple takes of one line and edit that into a coherent narrative as well as making it engaging. Also you have to edit in the soundtracks as well as look out for continuity. Memento could have been so so difficult to follow if not for the work done in the editing room. Exactly the same for Inception.

BB worked structurally but not so much on the action level. TDK however won the oscar for film and sound editing. TDKR however really should have been much tighter which is ironic for a story that should have been longer. But TDKR had a few big leaps like it was *cut* 5 months later. It also had HUGE continuity errors.

But Memento, Insomnia, The Prestige, TDK and Inception are pretty much great IMO. It may not be hugely stylized but it tells the story. That's what Nolan is always praised for.

 

[BatLobster]

The funny thing is I don't think things like jumping 5 months ahead were unintentional on Nolan's part. There's an interview where he talks about how he's always been interested in the "elasticity" of time in movies...essentially all movies have a distorted sense of time that is often unclear to gleen from the narrative. I think in TDKR he was specifically looking to exploit that in order to tell a story on a grander scale, though for some the exploitation might've taken them out of the story. I think of it this way though...does TDKR suddenly become a better movie if we get a slow fade up with a "5 months later" caption? No, not really. When I consider that alternative, I end up feeling like a hard cut to an overhead shot of the Tumbler leaving snowtracks on a quiet, desolate Gotham street is indeed a more provacative way to communicate the passage of time in this apocalyptic scenario. And it's a much more Nolan-thing to do anyway.

One can only wonder what role time has to play in Interstellar. Something tells me we'll be getting quite a few moments of *Cut* (Earth)years pass.

 

[Deserana]

Oh no I dont not like it for that reason it was where we were in the story. I was hoping for more time with Bruce, seeing his recovery and watch him getting back in shape again. Also wanted to see more of the fallout and how Bane and his army treated the rich and see Bane more with characters like Gordon or Selina. But instead it was BAM cut 5 months later and Bruce is already working out and we see a tiny glimpse of how Gotham is now.

I like quick cuts to something else it can sometimes be hugely effective but here it was like "oh so we're just skipping ahead 5 months?"

 

[Anita18]

Yeah I feel like editing is one of those things you don't notice unless it's really bad. If it's good, you don't notice.

And sometimes it's showy like in Memento and Inception and The Prestige, that you can't help but notice it because it helps you actually understand the story. You acknowledge that you're understanding the story at all because the editing is good. That's pretty much the definition of good editing.

 

[Deserana]

Exactly they only really explain the spinning top twice or so in Inception yet you get it's significance by the way the film kept cutting to it in important moments. Yes it's in the script, Nolan meant it and filmed it with that in mind but if you dont edit it properly that doesn't come across to an audience.