Interstellar - Part 7

[redfirebird2008]

A lot of it just comes down to whether you enjoy a movie or not. The more you enjoy it, the less likely you are to nitpick. Opposite is true. The less you enjoy it, the more likely you are to nitpick.

 

[ThreadPool]

Plot hole is certainly misused when it comes to TDKR. The problems are in the execution and the pacing not really because there are loads of holes. Like others have said TDK has ones just as big. But TBH I really only notice them when people point them in unless they're so bad like in Iron Man 3 that they take me out of the film.

As for The Prestige I still dont see it as a cheat. A twist to me is only a cheat IMO when it makes plot holes but Prestige you can pretty still make sense of it all even when it's revealed. Though I do see why it irks some people it just doesn't annoy me I guess.

Dear LORD, yes! People can have problems with execution as much as they want but why the hell do so many jump straight to, "PLOT HOLE!", as a criticism? I had more than a few problems with the way things happened in TDKR. That doesn't automatically make those problems plot holes.

 

[BatLobster]

A lot of it just comes down to whether you enjoy a movie or not. The more you enjoy it, the less likely you are to nitpick. Opposite is true. The less you enjoy it, the more likely you are to nitpick.

Pretty much.

As long as a movie manages to hold my attention and captivate me for its entire runtime, makes me feel something, and leaves me me with something to think about/discuss...I'm usually very forgiving.

 

[Travesty]

The Robin thing wasn't a twist. They just revealed his name. It didn't change what we thought of him before.

I would say it did. When it was revealed his real name is Robin, it made the audience realize that it was truly Batman's sidekick all along. Before that, you just thought he was some hot head cop who feels things in his bones and stuff. Anytime something unexpected happens that causes someone to reevaluate their opinion on a character, that constitutes a twist. That's the very definition of the word.

There are many different styles and methods for using and developing a twist. Not all of them are going to be as broad and outrages as something like Darth Vader in Star Wars. Some of them can be very subtle, like finding out that we don't really know the name of the protagonist in Layer Cake. There's an actual term for this, but I can't remember it or find it.

And are you guys trying to say TDKR is void of plot holes, now?

 

[Grommers]

Having just jumped into this thread to read the reviews - only to find people - what appears to be bloody nitpicking Nolan's work.

Spielberg was a great director for his time, he was innovative, creative, and different from the rest, lately he has been lacking as if he's out of ideas.

I think James Cameron' has been one of the few to truly embrace technology that still has some great movies from back in the day.

Nolan is here, and he's embracing technology, but still making quality movies, are they 100% quality? No. But most movies always lack in some certain aspect, and although there cult classics to some people, they still had there fare share of..errors.

I think Chris Nolan is a very innovative and creative director and even writer, are they flawless? no, but he still deserves praise as one of the first directors to embrace technology, and story, on a consistent basis.

Now, I do hope Interstellar is going to be a stellar movie, and I have no doubt I'll thoroughly enjoy it, and it will spark some ideas in my head about life in general I have no doubt, and thats what Nolan's overall goal is usually to do. Is to make you question things, and that in itself is what makes these movies so much more enjoyable.

 

[Schlosser85]

And are you guys trying to say TDKR is void of plot holes, now?

I wasn't trying to say that. But people greatly exaggerate the extent to which TDKR is supposedly riddled with holes and TDK supposedly isn't.

 

[The Endless]

TDK has more "plot holes" and leaps in logic than TDKR. Simply because of the nature of Joker. It's easier to just go with the flow and forgive them though because the Joker is a great villain and supremely entertaining.

As for Interstellar? Still going to watch it on IMAX. But yea a lot of the criticisms i'm seeing are what i've come to expect from Nolan. Unnatural exposition heavy dialogue. Poor female characters.

 

[JackWhite]

Biggest plot hole in TDKR for me was Bruce just....getting back into Gotham. Even when I first saw the film that stuck out like a sore thumb to me and my buddy.

 

[BatLobster]

I think there are different levels of twists. There are the kinds that make you see a character in a different light, and then there are the kinds that really turn an entire movie on its head. To me the ending of Memento is the perfect example of that. It changes everything...both our relationship with Lenny and our perception of all the events of the movie.

Personally I don't think Blake's name being Robin really consitutes a twist. The fact that he was something like a sidekick was pretty obvious throughout the movie in their scenes together. The name reveal was just a nod of the hat to the larger Bat-mythos and an affirmation of this. The movie never tried to hide the fact that he was a younger, idealistic guy who was orphaned and looks up to Batman (and even fights side by side with him in a scene where Batman flat out tells him he should wear a mask). There was no misdirection there at all other than holding off on giving us his name. Whether or not this was necessary is another argument, but I don't see it as a twist really. I also think Talia's reveal was heavily telegraphed and not really meant to be a huge shocker, but that's another story.

I think Nolan likes his "punchy reveals" moreso than just having twists for the sake of twists. Holding out on revealing certain bits of information until the most impactful moment. I think that's what any good screenwriter is chasing after frankly.

 

[The Endless]

Biggest plot hole in TDKR for me was Bruce just....getting back into Gotham. Even when I first saw the film that stuck out like a sore thumb to me and my buddy.

And having time to create a giant bat logo with petrol.

 

[Schlosser85]

I don't think Blake's first name being Robin constitutes a twist. It's just a nod to a character from the comics that changes nothing about the movie or the character of Blake. That he was already serving essentially as Batman's sidekick is obvious the entire movie without his name literally being Robin. It was basically just an easter egg.

Now granted....how exactly Bruce, penniless and on the other side of the world, somehow managed to teleport himself into a city in lockdown is a pretty gaping question mark.

For that matter, if you have a vertebra protruding from your back, just slapping it back into place isn't exactly how it works...

 

[JackWhite]

And having time to create a giant bat logo with petrol.

Now that didn't bother me at all. I actually thought it was pretty cool to be honest.

 

[Travesty]

There was no misdirection there at all other than holding off on giving us his name. Whether or not this was necessary is another argument, but I don't see it as a twist really.

I would say the misdirection was that they told us his name was John Blake, without us knowing he was using his middle name as his first. And the same can be said about the antagonist in Layer Cake. There was no massive "misdirection" in omitting his name from the movie, and after we find out we don't know his name, it didn't change his character at all, it just made the audience reevaluate everything. Same with Robin John Blake.

So let me ask you this, if his name was never revealed to be Robin, would you ever think of him as "Nolan's Robin"? Would there be all these "John Blake is an amalgamation of past Robins", that I've heard time and time again?

*And I found out the twist technique, and it's called anagnorisis. And funnily enough, they use Layer Cake as an example.

 

[Schlosser85]

I would say the misdirection was that they told us his name was John Blake, without us knowing he was using his middle name as his first.

Actually he was never anything more than "Blake" all through the movie. The only time he gives his name as John Blake is in the same scene where a moment later we find out his full name is Robin.

 

[BatLobster]

Nice bit of discussion here at the 26 minute mark:

[YT]T-tHSAnwh0M[/YT]

So let me ask you this, if his name was never revealed to be Robin, would you ever think of him as "Nolan's Robin"? Would there be all these "John Blake is an amalgamation of past Robins", that I've heard time and time again?

Personally, I do think I would've been thinking exactly that. The "bones" scene was a huge tip-off. When I watched TDKR with my mom for the first time, when they got to the Robin reveal, she said and I quote- "I knew it". She thought it was cute, not surprising. And she's far from any sort of comic book expert. I do think the movie was at least gently guiding the audience in that direction. Or maybe she just felt it in her bones 'n stuff.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Now that didn't bother me at all. I actually thought it was pretty cool to be honest.

However, during any re-watch you can't help but think that while all hell is breaking loose, Bale-Bats is just standing around spraying a wall with gasoline... just so he can have a cool entrance/moment.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Biggest plot hole in TDKR for me was Bruce just....getting back into Gotham. Even when I first saw the film that stuck out like a sore thumb to me and my buddy.

Biggest problem with TDKR is it rushes through a lot of things. I did not buy the Bruce/Miranda relationship because it plays out too quickly. Likewise, I wish the "hermit Bruce" part of the film received more screentime. I think pretty much everyone was disappointed with how short the Bruce/Gordon hospital scene was. We thought the teaser trailer was just a tease of that scene, not the entire thing!

 

[Schlosser85]

Having Talia and Catwoman in the same movie and turning Talia's presence into a "surprise" twist truncated both their development.

 

[The Endless]

TDKR should have forgotten that whole fusion bomb thing. Forgot Talia. Just focused on Bane vs Bats and the "no mans land" aspect. No Mans Land is such a great story. I would have loved to have seen it have more importance on Rises. That whole aspect of the film was basically glossed over. The kangeroo court scenes were awesome though.

 

[JackWhite]

However, during any re-watch you can't help but think that while all hell is breaking loose, Bale-Bats is just standing around spraying a wall with gasoline... just so he can have a cool entrance/moment.

lol, yeah I can't deny not thinking about that on subsequent viewings of TDKR. t:

 

[redfirebird2008]

However, during any re-watch you can't help but think that while all hell is breaking loose, Bale-Bats is just standing around spraying a wall with gasoline... just so he can have a cool entrance/moment.

It's awesome. t:

 

[BatLobster]

To be fair...the burning symbol was meant to give Gotham hope/defiantly announce his arrival in order to bait the LOS into a war. Wasn't just for kicks. But still an awesome moment even if you strip away the logic, goosebumps everytime. The fire rises.

 

[Travesty]

Yeah, who cares about the bomb, Batman needs to give Gotham hope.

 

[BatLobster]

Let's not do this in here.

 

[JackWhite]

Yeah, who cares about the bomb, Batman needs to give Gotham hope.

lmao. This made me seriously laugh out loud for some reason.