Iron Fist Iron Fist FULL SEASON ONE Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[Lencho01]

I wished I remembered the rumors of them taking various pitches longer than would have been helpful. I can see the influence of that issue.

After the disappointing way Luke Cage ended its second half, I was hoping this would right the course and get me more excited for Defenders. But, the early reviews changed that. So, I ended up thinking the show was just ok. Didn't feel things improved or got worse in any significant ways over the course of the show. Due to their weaknesses, I feel that this and Luke Cage are pretty equal of being the worst of the Netflix Marvel shows. But, this is a little worse.

Didn't care for the Meachums at all, though Ward's journey was the most interesting. Harold was just there to me though there were some amusing lines here and there. As crazy as things are, the idea of him coming back publicly was silly to me. I really thought he was gonna have plastic surgery or something. Joy... I don't think the writes really knew what to do with her and thus he ending, made no sense.

Davos was a nice addition. I kinda get his turn, but it seemed too extreme.

Colleen was cool. Only twist I didn't see coming (until soon before it, of course). I felt she and Danny's romance went too fast.

Claire was good as usual. Happy they didn't have her hook up with Danny.

Danny... I get the whole innocence thing but they also made him too dumb for me. I wasn't feeling the character overall. And straight up, the fighting skills just didn't feel up to snuff. Seriously, getting someone with skills or at least giving him a mask would've helped so much. They didn't sell the idea of Danny being so great to me.

The Hand (covering all of them)... my impression of them went down. So far it feels like there are three different groups with three different goals. It makes things confusing. I'm starting to expect them to reveal two more groups with two more different goals.

 

[Loki882]

Honestly I didn't think much of this version of the Hand even in DD S2. They were rather boring and generic even there. And this show did nothing to really sell me on them either.

 

[Loki882]

It's too bad they couldn't admit to themselves that they might have been better off just dropping the Iron Fist solo show. Sure, fans might have been disappointed and *****ed and moaned about it, but it might have been better than wasting 13 hours of everyone's lives. It really didn't add anything new or interesting to the conflict with the Hand. If anything, I was left confused why Madame Gao was suddenly leading a faction of the Hand, when in Daredevil Season 1 it seemed like she was part of a completely different crime organization. Well, maybe I shouldn't say they didn't add anything new. But did we really need that whole infighting in the Hand plotline?

Iron Fist should have been introduced in Defenders, and basically been the show's Punisher. Then, if well received, they could have continued his story in his own solo. It would have given them more time to actually come up with a direction for the show, and we could have had a season that doesn't focus on the Hand.

Did I miss something. Did they ever explain why Madame Gao had the symbol of the Steel Serpent stamped onto her heroin packets in DD. And yet here, Davos doesn't seem like that guy at all?

 

[Nathan]

Did I miss something. Did they ever explain why Madame Gao had the symbol of the Steel Serpent stamped onto her heroin packets in DD. And yet here, Davos doesn't seem like that guy at all?

According to Danny, it's basically the Hand's way of giving K'un-Lun the finger. Which I think is a very lame reason. I thought there'd be a lot more behind that symbol. But no, that's all there is to it.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah that sounds incredibly lame and underwhelming.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Man...Danny better get a costume by Season 2.

According to Danny, it's basically the Hand's way of giving K'un-Lun the finger. Which I think is a very lame reason. I thought there'd be a lot more behind that symbol. But no, that's all there is to it.

You mean like a Steel Serpent order or something?

 

[Loki882]

You know this is also one of those (relatively few) places where "why didn't they call another hero" really stood out for me. OK so you've got The Hand, and it's being built up as this huge threat, and Danny's spent most of his life being told how they need to be destroyed.

Then you have Claire, who basically goes "oh I have a friend who fought The Hand before."

So logically, Danny's first response should have been to go "oh, who's your friend? Can you maybe call him, we might need his help later?" And then the fact that it never occurs to Claire to call up Matt Murdock also really bothered me.

 

[The Infernal]

I think they may/could further develop the mythology of the Steel Serpent symbol as Gao explains her reasoning as she gives it to Davos.

 

[Nathan]

Just watched the MovieBob Review and ouch, he does not hold back.

 

[metaphysician]

Ward was a complete *****e, agreed. But after watching the whole show, I could understand why he was the way he was. Basically since the day he was born, he didn't have any free will. Every thing that he ever did in life, was decided by his father. And it appears that Harold was already a very shady person, even before he was resurrected. Apparently already having hired guns who did some dirty work for him. It just became the norm for Ward.

It explains why Ward was such a jackass to Danny when they were children. Danny had his loving parents, while Ward basically had a psychopath as a father. Ward's one saving grace is that he cares deeply for his sister. So I could buy his turn. Since he just wants Joy to be safe, and get rid of his father. So he sides with Danny.

I also think he never fully hated Danny. It was always mixed feelings, envy mixed with attachment. Combine that with how, after Ward hit rock bottom, Danny repeatedly pulled his bacon out of the fire? I don't think he'll ever love Danny. . . but by the end of the movie, he does respect him. He's come to accept that he was a terrible person in numerous ways, and that he doesn't want to be that person anymore. Which doesn't mean he doesn't still have issues, but. . . if nothing else, he doesn't want to be the man his father was.

 

[metaphysician]

As for the Gao related stuff, I don't think this show thought through its mythos ties at all. I suspect things like "Gao is Hand" were the result of basically throwing ideas at the wall to fulfill the needs of each individual episode.

 

[The Infernal]

Did Gao ever interact with the other Hand members in Daredevil season 1? There are a bunch of questions that arise from how the Hand are depicted here contrasted with both seasons of Daredevil.

 

[Paradox1]

Drunken master aka Lewis Tan probably should of been Iron Fist. I would of bought him in the role fully.

 

[kguillou]

Its funny, Lewis Tan's scene felt so completely out of place, like it was from a different show. A, you know, KUNG FU show. And yet, it was the best scene in whole damn season.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[kguillou]

Those gifs say so much on so many levels.

 

[DawnWarrior]

Indeed, that might go down as my favorite episode, since it's when the show really came alive for once. DD, JJ, and LC all managed to find their own distinct tones to go along with their characters and their worlds, and I thought, in the same vein, that IF would embrace the tone of a martial-arts heavy show. Into the Badlands is such a show, where the fights are huge and over-the-top and show off the choreography and the skills of the actors. But the fights on Iron Fist don't go there; they mostly stay at the same level as Daredevil, that same kind of grimy realism and brutality, which works fine for Matt Murdoch cracking the skulls of a bunch of Russian gangsters, but seems restrained and pedestrian for a guy who's whole super-hero schtick is to be this Ultimate Warrior of Ultimate Destiny.

 

[Paradox1]

Its funny, Lewis Tan's scene felt so completely out of place, like it was from a different show. A, you know, KUNG FU show. And yet, it was the best scene in whole damn season.

I agree it should of been a mystical Kung Fu show. I finished IF on Sunday the same day Into the Badlands returned. As I'm watching it, I'm thinking this is what Iron Fist should have been but set in the modern world.

 

[Nathan]

Its funny, Lewis Tan's scene felt so completely out of place, like it was from a different show. A, you know, KUNG FU show. And yet, it was the best scene in whole damn season.

The only bright spot in the show's entire 13 hours. God... I regret wasting 2 days on this show.

 

[chamber-music]

Iron Fist drinking game.

Take a drink whenever Danny finds out he has been betrayed.

Take a drink when someone reveals themselves as a member of the hand.

Drink when Danny breaks into somewhere.

Hire Brad Allen to do the fight scene choreography. Give the actors enough time to train for the scenes. Having Danny in a mask would make it easier for them to swap Finn out for a stunt double and lessen the burden of him having to do as much of the fight choreography.

 

[javonstokess]

Its funny, Lewis Tan's scene felt so completely out of place, like it was from a different show. A, you know, KUNG FU show. And yet, it was the best scene in whole damn season.

I don't blame Finn for the show's issues. I thought he had an interesting take on Danny Rand.

Had the writing and fight choreography been better, everything would have been cool.

Had the whole show been like episode 6 and that scene, I think everyone would have loved it and no one would be complaining about "white savior" this or "whitesplaining" that.

 

[Vartha]

I'll be watching the first two in about 20 minutes

 

[Sundancer]

Did Gao ever interact with the other Hand members in Daredevil season 1? There are a bunch of questions that arise from how the Hand are depicted here contrasted with both seasons of Daredevil.

I dont think they officially popped up until S2 except for Nobu.




I wish Danny had worn the outfit when he was doing Gao's challenges. He was really representing the Iron Fist then.

 

[Protar]

Binged it over a few days. While I was able to get some enjoyment out of it, it was certainly an incredibly flawed show and by far the weakest of the Netflix series'. The main problems as I see it -

It was obviously very racially uncomfortable. A show steeped in asian mysticism, yet with only one good asian character and a white protagonist using asian culture to defeat armies of asian bad guys. If Danny had to be white, they could have at least addressed that in the show. JJ and LC both explored issues like rape and racism head on and did it with tact. Where was the discussion on cultural appropriation and white saviours in Iron Fist? Instead we get a white man teaching an asian woman how to practice martial arts in her own dojo and it is played completely straight. In terms of both gender and race it was one of the most patronising scenes I have seen on television in a long time.

They were too obsessed with grounding it. The source material is about dragons and magic ninjas. So whose idea was it to make half the season a mildly interesting soap about rich people?

Danny is just not a good protagonist. He's certainly a multi-faceted character but unfortunately those facets include such gems as "most infuriatingly naive person in the world." "angry man child." "patronising, pretentious white yoga dude." and "just a completely bland, blank slate." He varies from bland to straight up unlikeable.

Obviously having just finished the series today I haven't had the time to scrutinise the plot, but I feel like it doesn't hold up in a lot of places. The complete lack of police that are integral to the other series hurt the show's believability. The Hand didn't use it's leverage at times when it should (for example when Gao was captured, they knew where Claire's mum was, but never used that information). Why were Coleen's students initiated into the darker parts of the Hand before Coleen herself?

It did have some merit. I think the show delivered on complex and morally ambiguous characters. Harold and Ward in particular were very fleshed out, and I will admit that my expectations from the first episode of Ward being a straight up villain whilst Joy would be the obvious defector to Danny's side was flipped on it's head. Harold was I think a highlight of the show. Obviously there was never any doubt that he was not a good guy, but throughout the season there was a real question of how long his goal's would align with Danny's for, and just how sincere he was being at different points. At times he reminded me quite a lot of Sky/Daisy's dad on Agents of SHIELD. There was some potential in the Hand being revealed to have different factions as well, but because we never really get to see how Bakudo's Hand differed in goals to Gao's this ultimately results in a missed opportunity.

They did a good job at giving the mooks a lot of character. The Russian Twins, the Spider Lady and especially the Drunk Ninja were all a lot of fun.

I also liked Coleen's yoga pants.

 

[Loki882]

Honestly it felt to me like they didn't have a real idea of what to do with Joy's character. And that ending with her, I didn't buy it at all.

And from what I've been told by other IF fans, Spider Lady seems like she was kind of wasted here.