The Punisher The Punisher FULL SEASON ONE Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[hellblazer103]

All these people would get shot or beaten and lose so much blood and then just get up like nothing happened. I mean, Billy was shot in the face and yet he kept talking normally.

I know I already replied to this post, but keep in mind that the showrunner is Steve Lightfoot, who also worked on Hannibal, and if you think THIS show has unrealistic bloodletting.... Just watch Hannibal, lol. It basically takes gore and makes it an art form, which is why I got excited when I heard he'd be working on Punisher. I'd say the violence is perfect for this show/character.

 

[harlequinade]

There's nothing that says Frank has a more-than-platonic interest in Karen. Even the little head-touching thing on the elevator, or Frank stroking her face as he checks for injuries? Those, we must remember, are being told from Karen's perspective so for all we know, Frank never did either of those things.

lol what

 

[dmcreif]

lol what

Perhaps a better question would be "How would the events of The Punisher have been impacted if

Spoiler

Matt hadn't 'died' in Midland Circle?

"

 

[TheVileOne]

dmcreif, I have no idea what you are talking about sometimes.

 

[javonstokess]

Weird...so you guys what the machine-like killing machine Punisher instead of a nuanced, human Punisher?

I mean, really, the former might be good for a movie (though the proof doesn't help), but not for a 13-episode tv show.

I like this version of Frank Castle. He's real and feels like it's possible for someone like him to exist.

 

[TheVileOne]

I loved Jon Bernthal's performance and it's the best thing about the show. At the same time, the show meanders around a lot, and a lot of the time Frank isn't really doing anything except reacting to other things that are going on. Like when they take a break to do that dumb Lewis Wilson subplot.

Not to mention the climax to that subplot was pretty anti-climactic.

 

[chamber-music]

Weird...so you guys what the machine-like killing machine Punisher instead of a nuanced, human Punisher?

I mean, really, the former might be good for a movie (though the proof doesn't help), but not for a 13-episode tv show.

I like this version of Frank Castle. He's real and feels like it's possible for someone like him to exist.

I think a lot of it has to do with most people only really being familiar with Ennis Max version of the Punisher in which Castle is cold, detached and his humanity has mostly withered away after being the Punisher for decades.

It is basically like people expecting Frank Miller's grizzled veteran Batman from The Dark Knight Returns and getting Dennis O'Neil Batman.

People watching the show seem shocked that Frank bantered with Micro even though they did that in the comics before they fell out.

 

[FunkMiller]

Just got done with the series, and really liked it, except for the quibbles that I think most people have. These Netflix series really do need tightening up to 10 episodes or so.
Bernthal is a force of damn nature, and the rest of the cast were uniformly good. I’m not a huge Punisher fan, but this iteration of Frank interested me more than any other I’ve seen or read, which must be a good thing.
I’m hoping season 2 gets him into more of a war on crime in NY, with Billy back at some point in full Jigsaw mode.
For me, it was the third best season of Netflix Marvel, behind Daredevil season 1 and Jessica Jones season 1.
Netflix do need to start being less ashamed of the iconography of these characters though.
8.5/10.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think a lot of it has to do with most people only really being familiar with Ennis Max version of the Punisher in which Castle is cold, detached and his humanity has mostly withered away after being the Punisher for decades.

It is basically like people expecting Frank Miller's grizzled veteran Batman from The Dark Knight Returns and getting Dennis O'Neil Batman.

People watching the show seem shocked that Frank bantered with Micro even though they did that in the comics before they fell out.

I wasn't even expecting that type of Punisher. I would've been fine with Punisher circa the 80s or 90s.

 

[rogue trooper]

I wasn't even expecting that type of Punisher. I would've been fine with Punisher circa the 80s or 90s.

....which I think we did get a bit of that in the series. I felt there were traits that brought to mind the works of Steve Grant, Carl Potts, Mike Baron, and Jim Starlin.

 

[marcvader]

As a long time comic reader but not necessarily a Punisher fan I have to say my girlfriend and I really liked the show. Great writing, acting, and action set pieces all around. A very welcome effort after having seen Iron Fist, Defenders, and Luke Cage.

 

[chamber-music]

....which I think we did get a bit of that in the series. I felt there were traits that brought to mind the works of Steve Grant, Carl Potts, Mike Baron, and Jim Starlin.

Agreed. I think a lot of the traits we saw in this Punisher were a lot closer to the eighties and nineties version which makes sense given that the Castle has only been 'Punishing' for two or three years and it isn't the veteran Max Punisher.

 

[javonstokess]

IMO, those who are worried that Castle has essentially "lost his edge" considering how this season resolved itself, I think it really wouldn't be a difficult thing to lure 'The Punisher" out of hiding.

I mean, they kinda left two big threats out there with vendettas against Frank. Between those criminals Frank killed in episode 1 and Jigsaw, I'm sure someone will re-light Frank's fuse.

Plus, there is no way you can have Frank active in the city when Matt "awakens".

 

[harlequinade]

for those thinking Karen/Frank is platonic:

Spoiler

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah they didn't take that next step, but they definitely seemed to hint at the idea that they are more than just friends. And it happened even earlier when he kissed her, whether it was a little kiss on the cheek or not.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Just got done with the series, and really liked it, except for the quibbles that I think most people have. These Netflix series really do need tightening up to 10 episodes or so.
Bernthal is a force of damn nature, and the rest of the cast were uniformly good. I’m not a huge Punisher fan, but this iteration of Frank interested me more than any other I’ve seen or read, which must be a good thing.
I’m hoping season 2 gets him into more of a war on crime in NY, with Billy back at some point in full Jigsaw mode.
For me, it was the third best season of Netflix Marvel, behind Daredevil season 1 and Jessica Jones season 1.
Netflix do need to start being less ashamed of the iconography of these characters though.
8.5/10.

I think they planted some seeds for this in the first episode. Frank kills a member of the Gnuccis, so I think Ma Gnucci will be a major player in season 2. And hopefully we'll see the Russian.

Also, I do agree that the show could have probably used some tightening up in spots, but I was never bored by any of it. I especially enjoyed the (truly unexpected) surprise that Frank and Micro ultimately become a modern day version of The Odd Couple, which added a lot of humor to the show.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I loved Jon Bernthal's performance and it's the best thing about the show. At the same time, the show meanders around a lot, and a lot of the time Frank isn't really doing anything except reacting to other things that are going on. Like when they take a break to do that dumb Lewis Wilson subplot.

Not to mention the climax to that subplot was pretty anti-climactic.

I actually thought it meandered less than several other Marvel shows did. The Lewis subplot was prob the biggest offender, but I actually liked how it ended and worked its way into the plot. I did not find myself bored or saying "When will this go somewhere" with this show. I did that during Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Defenders, and even at times during DD season 2's second half, but not much with this one.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think they planted some seeds for this in the first episode. Frank kills a member of the Gnuccis, so I think Ma Gnucci will be a major player in season 2. And hopefully we'll see the Russian.

Also, I do agree that the show could have probably used some tightening up in spots, but I was never bored by any of it. I especially enjoyed the (truly unexpected) surprise that Frank and Micro ultimately become a modern day version of The Odd Couple, which added a lot of humor to the show.

OK but Frank and Micro getting involved again would basically be terrible news for Micro and his family. Keep in mind Frank made a conscious choice not to go eat dinner with Micro and his family.

 

[righthooksrus86]

Definitely want more of the war on crime angle in season 2...I wanna be able to see some of it from the point of view of the criminals where you feel their fear of The Punisher and his legend that would be nice.

 

[chamber-music]

Castle still has a that score to settle with Kingpin as well. Kingpin is in Daredevil season 3 but could also possibly show up in a future season of the Punisher.

 

[dmcreif]

Yeah they didn't take that next step, but they definitely seemed to hint at the idea that they are more than just friends. And it happened even earlier when he kissed her, whether it was a little kiss on the cheek or not.

There is no indication that Karen is romantically interested in Frank. And Frank has never shown romantic interest in Karen.

Karen has always tended to project her own psychological issues on to him (sort of like what Elektra did with Matt). Her connection with Frank in season 2 was all about trying to vindicate her actions regarding Wesley. Here in The Punisher, her need for Frank to move on is, at least partially, HER wanting to know that moving on IS possible, that she won’t be stuck grieving Matt for the rest of her life.

And Frank’s inability to move past HIS grief over losing his family seems fundamental to the character. He won’t ever get to a place where he has processed and accepted his grief, because if he did that he would cease to be the Punisher…and then the writers have broken him as a character and ended the show. Even if Matt wasn’t going to return to the scene, I don’t think a happy romance would ever be in Karen and Frank’s future. Which isn’t to say that there won’t be a kind of wistful ‘what might have been’ element to their relationship.

 

[TheVileOne]

There are multiple indications throughout the season whether they are ignored or not.

 

[Yurka]

It's truly amazing, and frustrating, how hesitant these Netflix shows are with embracing the iconography. After seeing Frank wear the skull in two scenes in Daredevil Season 2, we only get THREE in all of the standalone series?? And only 1 with the trenchcoat??

Season Two hopes: More skull, more war on crime.

 

[TheVileOne]

It's truly amazing, and frustrating, how hesitant these Netflix shows are with embracing the iconography. After seeing Frank wear the skull in two scenes in Daredevil Season 2, we only get THREE in all of the standalone series?? And only 1 with the trenchcoat??

Season Two hopes: More skull, more war on crime.

It gets really irksome after a while.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Whether you want to admit it or not, the notion that we're ever going to get the full blown 70s and 80s vigilante revenge fantasy of the comics in this series in today's sociopolitical climate is incredibly naive and it's not going to happen. How they reworked Frank's story is already a testament to that. Marvel/Netflix doesn't want the headache. The next season may pit him up against Jigsaw and the Gnuccis, but it's going to be just as slow burn as this season was.