Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

[Dasher10]

Guys, lets get some perspective here, Fuller House, which was univerally crushed by critics is on its way to its third season. Iron Fist, a Marvel branded series, will be fine lol

Hopefully. And hopefully it means time to course correct.

First off, the only series which had made use of 13 episodes was Daredevil and Season 2 honestly needed more episodes since it was trying to tell too much story but Jessica, Luke and IF would all benefit from going down to 11 since they have less source material to draw from, particularly Jessica.

Daredevil still has Bullet, Typhoid, Bullseye, Ikari, Black Tarantula, Electro, Echo, Eric Slaughter and Mister Fear to fight. Melvin has yet to become Gladiator as well. His rogues gallery is great and he has plenty of stories to draw from. We also have never seen Rosalind Sharpe yet, nor have we seen Heather Glenn, Gloriana O'Breen, Dakota North, Milla Donovan or team ups with Black Widow and Spider-Man.

I mean, who are Jessica's other villains? There's Green Goblin who is a long way off since he really deserves to be the big bad of an entire phase of films. There's a homophobic preacher who scared a girl away from home. Alison Green also counts but the story that she's involved in is still ongoing. That's about it. And her supporting cast involves Scott Lang and Carol Danvers who are both nearly impossible to grab thanks to scheduling issues. I think that it's possible to introduce somebody like Moonstone or Songbird who Marvel will eventually want to use but the films are a long way away from using but are both needed for the Thunderbolts. Moonstone would be great since the films will never touch Carol's rape by her future son and turning to alcohol and she needs to be somebody's therapist who winds up turning bad.

Luke has a strong rogue's gallery. The problem is not overstuffing a season with them. We know that since Diamondback and Coldfire got combined into one character and he wound up in Doctor Burnstien's custody that he's most likely to reappear with fire powers whether you liked the character or not. Since Burnstein is still trying to recreate Captain America, we'll see Warhawk and Atlas also appear. He also has Chemistro who's actually two characters who are both brothers. And then there's Nightshade who really needs to be held off on until Season 3 since she's an enemy who tests his marraige (and needs to wear the black bikini). And among his supporting cast, there's Hector and Ava Ayala and Shades' estranged teenage son Victor. And that's not even getting into somebody who may have helped his preacher father fight off the devil in the deep south who would provide the ultimate backdoor pilot... BLADE. I can see at least four seasons of Luke Cage before the storylines dry up.

Danny's rogues are a bit weaker. Radion can't be used since he's off with the Fantastic Four rights at Fox. Sabretooth is also at Fox and even if he wasn't, he's too tied to Gambit and Wolverine to ever be used in a non-X-Men adaptation. Chaka is just a guy in a tiger mask. But there are some usable diamonds in the rough. Master Khan is somewhat dated but if played up as an evil version of Doctor Strange from India, then he's a bit less offensive but his storyline involving Princess Azir only works if Danny is hired as her bodyguard as a Hero For Hire. Mister Xao actually works as a businessman connected to HYDRA trying to take over K'un Lun but he'd honestly work better as a Defenders villain since Misty, Luke and Colleen are all part of the story that he's part of. And then there's Steel Serpent who sets up a cameo from Spider-Man in a fight in Central Park and a really cool fight in abandoned subway tunnels. And The One who's a martial arts robot who iron Fist trained against in K'un Lun. And as far as supporting characters go, there's Orson Randall and the other Immortal Weapons. I'd love to see Jason Statham as Randall, Jing Tian as Tiger's Beautiful Daughter and Peter Mensah as Prince of Orphans. If Marvel can actually get it right with a second season and Netflix is willing to finance it, then there's plenty of room to course correct. I feel like he still has at least one more season in him with Steel Serpent setting up a second Defenders series adapting Capital Cities of Heaven and if that goes well, then something can be done with the Master Khan and Living Weapon arcs. He's not in as good of a shape as Matt and Luke but his situation isn't as dire as Jessica since he still has stories to mine.

And as far as Defenders itself goes, I feel like the best storylines to use are the aforementioned Xao and HYDRA attempting to take over K'un Lun during a tournament between the Immortal Weapons, The Hood assembling an army of supervillains and Daredevil being revealed as a Black Sky and leading the Hand while his friends try to save him. Seven Capital Cities of Heaven, The Trust and Shadowland are first three storylines that come to mind when I think of where the Defenders can go. Thanks to Spider-Man being on the big screen and rights issues with Sony, I don't think that Maximum Carnage or Spider Island can happen.

Still, if Netflix are willing to greenlight a second season, there's plenty of room for more Iron Fist stories and he certainly has more potential than Jessica Jones. The problem here wasn't the source material. The problem was Scott Buck.

 

[kguillou]

Which is weird, because I know a lot of people thought Luke Cage had pacing issues at the start too, which seems to be the main complaint for this series. The first three episodes of Cage are glacially slow.

I keep hearing people say that but Luke Cage had a pretty damn steady pace in the first half. In episode two, we had that big death, and episode 3 had that kickass retaliation warehouse sequence. S*** was definitely going down pretty early in the show. From what I'm hearing or IF is that NOTHING happens for the first 4 episodes, action wise and story wise unless i'm misunderstanding.

 

[Slick]

I thought it was Savannah.

It was.

 

[Dasher10]

I keep hearing people say tbat but Luke Cage had a pretty damn steady pace in thr first half. In episode two, we had that big death, and episode 3 had that kickass retaliation warehouse sequence. S*** was definity going down pretty early in the show. From what I'm heating or IF is that NOTHING happens for the first 4 episodes unless im misunderstanding.

I'm hearing that stuff happens in Episode 1 and the tail end of Episode 4 but overall the second and third episodes are pretty boring and the show could be improved if Episode 3 were removed from the series entirely since it's a filler episode.

 

[scarlet-witch]

That's disappointing, but I'll wait to see for myself. I found that I disagreed with a lot of critics on Jessica Jones, maybe I will on this too.

I am pleased to hear the fighting isn't as bad as JJ though

 

[Panacea]

Can we give this a chance and watch all 13 episodes before saying that the show is a failure? Maybe it gets better after episode 5.

Well the last few Neflix seasons have been criticised for losing steam about two thirds of the way in, so maybe with this they want it to build from start to finish?

 

[kguillou]

But Jessica Jones was more of a detective noir show anyway. Shes not as much of a brawler as Murdock and Rand and to a lesser extent Cage. Iron Fist is all about Kung Fu, I was anticipating that the action scenes in this were gonna make DD look like Arrow.

 

[TheVileOne]

I thought it was Savannah.

You are right. It was Savannah.

 

[Slick]

Something positive.
[YT]MTH0Hki6hRE[/YT]

Sorry if posted already.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

it was bound to happen at some point. At least this probably means we get a Heroes For Hire Show instead of Cage season 2 and IF Season 2.

 

[Slick]

it was bound to happen at some point. At least this probably means we get a Heroes For Hire Show instead of Cage season 2 and IF Season 2.

Luke has been renewed for a second season. So Heroes for Hire after.

 

[McSir]

I keep hearing people say that but Luke Cage had a pretty damn steady pace in the first half. In episode two, we had that big death, and episode 3 had that kickass retaliation warehouse sequence. S*** was definitely going down pretty early in the show. From what I'm hearing or IF is that NOTHING happens for the first 4 episodes, action wise and story wise unless i'm misunderstanding.

Oh, **** definitely went down. I, personally, felt that the **** happened only after a lot of meandering. I think the first three episodes could have been consolidated down to two. Cage has a lot of pacing issues, it's the main flaw in the series.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Luke has been renewed for a second season. So Heroes for Hire after.

Hopefully they turn it into heroes for hire, then.

 

[Big Bang]

And why? Not every Asian person has a connection to Asian spiritualism and martial arts. The show presents an Asian culture that's fictional. Come on, now. They need to get a show runner with a vision and passion for the project, someone who isn't clearly a hired gun, otherwise they shouldn't make a second season.

THIS THIS THIS THIS.

Honestly though, the show will probably be fine. SJW's are just having their fit because they didn't get their way. Look at how they treated Finn Jones on Twitter and in various articles, which are absolutely abhorrent. They are simply trying to sabotage the show, plain and simple.

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

Look at how they treated Finn Jones on Twitter and in various articles, which are absolutely abhorrent.

can i get a refresher on this? i forgot

but i do agree that a lot of critics were critical of IF when the casting was still being decided and now they can go back and point out their "original concerns" in their new reviews as "vindication"

 

[The Overlord]

Hopefully. And hopefully it means time to course correct.

First off, the only series which had made use of 13 episodes was Daredevil and Season 2 honestly needed more episodes since it was trying to tell too much story but Jessica, Luke and IF would all benefit from going down to 11 since they have less source material to draw from, particularly Jessica.

Daredevil still has Bullet, Typhoid, Bullseye, Ikari, Black Tarantula, Electro, Echo, Eric Slaughter and Mister Fear to fight. Melvin has yet to become Gladiator as well. His rogues gallery is great and he has plenty of stories to draw from. We also have never seen Rosalind Sharpe yet, nor have we seen Heather Glenn, Gloriana O'Breen, Dakota North, Milla Donovan or team ups with Black Widow and Spider-Man.

I mean, who are Jessica's other villains? There's Green Goblin who is a long way off since he really deserves to be the big bad of an entire phase of films. There's a homophobic preacher who scared a girl away from home. Alison Green also counts but the story that she's involved in is still ongoing. That's about it. And her supporting cast involves Scott Lang and Carol Danvers who are both nearly impossible to grab thanks to scheduling issues. I think that it's possible to introduce somebody like Moonstone or Songbird who Marvel will eventually want to use but the films are a long way away from using but are both needed for the Thunderbolts. Moonstone would be great since the films will never touch Carol's rape by her future son and turning to alcohol and she needs to be somebody's therapist who winds up turning bad.

Luke has a strong rogue's gallery. The problem is not overstuffing a season with them. We know that since Diamondback and Coldfire got combined into one character and he wound up in Doctor Burnstien's custody that he's most likely to reappear with fire powers whether you liked the character or not. Since Burnstein is still trying to recreate Captain America, we'll see Warhawk and Atlas also appear. He also has Chemistro who's actually two characters who are both brothers. And then there's Nightshade who really needs to be held off on until Season 3 since she's an enemy who tests his marraige (and needs to wear the black bikini). And among his supporting cast, there's Hector and Ava Ayala and Shades' estranged teenage son Victor. And that's not even getting into somebody who may have helped his preacher father fight off the devil in the deep south who would provide the ultimate backdoor pilot... BLADE. I can see at least four seasons of Luke Cage before the storylines dry up.

Danny's rogues are a bit weaker. Radion can't be used since he's off with the Fantastic Four rights at Fox. Sabretooth is also at Fox and even if he wasn't, he's too tied to Gambit and Wolverine to ever be used in a non-X-Men adaptation. Chaka is just a guy in a tiger mask. But there are some usable diamonds in the rough. Master Khan is somewhat dated but if played up as an evil version of Doctor Strange from India, then he's a bit less offensive but his storyline involving Princess Azir only works if Danny is hired as her bodyguard as a Hero For Hire. Mister Xao actually works as a businessman connected to HYDRA trying to take over K'un Lun but he'd honestly work better as a Defenders villain since Misty, Luke and Colleen are all part of the story that he's part of. And then there's Steel Serpent who sets up a cameo from Spider-Man in a fight in Central Park and a really cool fight in abandoned subway tunnels. And The One who's a martial arts robot who iron Fist trained against in K'un Lun. And as far as supporting characters go, there's Orson Randall and the other Immortal Weapons. I'd love to see Jason Statham as Randall, Jing Tian as Tiger's Beautiful Daughter and Peter Mensah as Prince of Orphans. If Marvel can actually get it right with a second season and Netflix is willing to finance it, then there's plenty of room to course correct. I feel like he still has at least one more season in him with Steel Serpent setting up a second Defenders series adapting Capital Cities of Heaven and if that goes well, then something can be done with the Master Khan and Living Weapon arcs. He's not in as good of a shape as Matt and Luke but his situation isn't as dire as Jessica since he still has stories to mine.

And as far as Defenders itself goes, I feel like the best storylines to use are the aforementioned Xao and HYDRA attempting to take over K'un Lun during a tournament between the Immortal Weapons, The Hood assembling an army of supervillains and Daredevil being revealed as a Black Sky and leading the Hand while his friends try to save him. Seven Capital Cities of Heaven, The Trust and Shadowland are first three storylines that come to mind when I think of where the Defenders can go. Thanks to Spider-Man being on the big screen and rights issues with Sony, I don't think that Maximum Carnage or Spider Island can happen.

Still, if Netflix are willing to greenlight a second season, there's plenty of room for more Iron Fist stories and he certainly has more potential than Jessica Jones. The problem here wasn't the source material. The problem was Scott Buck.

The thing with Jessica Jones is she doesn't need a huge rogues gallery to tell stories with her, just give her some good noir cases. Really Purple Man was just a C list Daredevil villain before Bendis used him, there are a ton of C list street villains who could be revamped for this show or you could have cases where she deals with normal criminals or just dealing with emotional situations.

People say the Iron Fist betrayed its source material, but let me ask you this, could you have done a faithful Iron Fist on a TV budget? I think Jessica Jones works better on a TV budget then Iron Fist does.

 

[Dasher10]

The thing with Jessica Jones is she doesn't need a huge rogues gallery to tell stories with her, just give her some good noir cases. Really Purple Man was just a C list Daredevil villain before Bendis used him, there are a ton of C list street villains who could be revamped for this show or you could have cases where she deals with normal criminals or just dealing with emotional situations.

People say the Iron Fist betrayed its source material, but let me ask you this, could you have done a faithful Iron Fist on a TV budget? I think Jessica Jones works better on a TV budget then Iron Fist does.

Daredevil managed to handle martial arts action while still moving the plot along.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

You know what might've helped making the fighting better in this show? Giving Iron Fist a mask so Finn Jones can more easily be swapped out for a double, like they did with Daredevil...

 

[Spider-Fan]

You know what might've helped making the fighting better in this show? Giving Iron Fist a mask so Finn Jones can more easily be swapped out for a double, like they did with Daredevil...

They can do it regardless if he is masked. Especially with CG tech now

 

[Johnny-Oh]

They can do it regardless if he is masked. Especially with CG tech now

CG is expensive, a physical mask wouldn't be.

 

[Spider-Fan]

CG is expensive, a physical mask wouldn't be.

Obviously, but stand ins are done without masks or CG too and done well without them at that. If the fighting sucks, it is just bad choreography.

 

[First Avenger]

I'd be more surprised if this happened to a movie. Loeb ain't Feige.

 

[TheVileOne]

It has kinda happened in some ways. Like to Baron Zemo.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Yeah, I'm not thoroughly convinced. I think if the show is fair plot wise, with decent acting and greater-than-average fight choreography (which I sorta expect), then I will be more than happy to binge watch.

Most martial arts movies I love are in a language I don't understand. So obviously I don't watch them for the life-changing plot.

We shall see...

 

[First Avenger]

It has kinda happened in some ways. Like to Baron Zemo.

I mean the terrible critical reception.