Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

[John Locke]

I was all over the bad reviews on day one. I also believe Vile and the IGN dude that the show has problems.

But when I am reading about Danny Rand, the Living Weapon, is "white mansplaining" to Colleen because he dare explain he knows more about martial arts then her, I am calling BS on a lot of reviews. Suddenly, not so trusting.

From what I've read the show doesn't really explain that Danny is the Living Weapon and only hint about it, so if you haven't read the comics it is just a white guy telling an Asian woman he knows more about martial arts.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Daredevil was definitely something we haven't seen before - an A list superhero on a premium network. And let's forget for a second the silly babies picking on poor Danny and talk business. Marvel would have gotten positive notices for casting an Asian lead, may have expanded their fan base and increased diversity in an area where they are sorely lacking. It would have been a smart move, but Loeb and company blew it.

Oh, so it is marketing exercise. Not creating a show about Danny Rand, the Iron Fist.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Also I never said that people can't have contrary opinions to the critics, everybody does of course. I'm saying that Marvel fans should stop talking so much about critics if they don't care about what they have to say one way or the other.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I happen to run into the few Marvel fans who one way or the other don't care about what the critics think. Interesting.

Quote me once where I said anything other than "Hey cool, it is getting good reviews" or where I was guessing where the % would fall. Just saying, it may take a while. You will also see I do not fall into the mob mentality on various films, loved or hated.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

From what I've read the show doesn't really explain that Danny is the Living Weapon and only hint about it, so if you haven't read the comics it is just a white guy telling an Asian woman he knows more about martial arts.

Well one, we know we learn that. The words "living weapon" are in the trailer. We see him at K'un-Lun. His hand glows and he uses energy that energy in combat. Whether they keep that a mystery early or not, I don't know. In the other 3 seasons of shows, the "flashback" episode came around episode 5. Maybe it is later.

Also has anyone ever freaked out that Batman has explain anything to anyone before? Batman is the ultimate ninja. This has never been a complaint.

 

[Zarex]

Looking at something and sayong what is one thing we know about Asian people, they know king fu. Hey we got this king fu, let's make him Asian! Yes, that is. It is inflatong a stereotype we have about Asian people in fiction.

I would disagree that it is problematic having a person learning an Asian discipline while in Asian be of Asian descent. And while it is stereotypical for an Asian character to have super Kung Fu powers, it doesn't help matters to have a white guy doing it instead.

My problem with the casting, which I expressed with the show was first announced, was that Marvel doesn't have many prominent Asian heroes. In my opinion casting Danny Rand with an Asian would have been a minor change to the canon and would have been a win in the diversity department. I think it was a missed opportunity.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Also I never said that people can't have contrary opinions to the critics, everybody does of course. I'm saying that Marvel fans should stop talking so much about critics if they don't care about what they have to say one way or the other.

I like the Marvel television shows a lot. I also believe critics are entitled to their opinion. But I also think it is more then fair to point out problems with critical reviews if they are obvious.

You did this with Tarzan. Another movie where complaints of a White Savior were made, and I'd say pretty unfairly. If I remember correctly, you got a bit dismissive with those reviews.

I am sure this show has problems. But that does not seem to be why this is getting panned the way it is.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I would disagree that it is problematic having a person learning an Asian discipline while in Asian be of Asian descent. And while it is stereotypical for an Asian character to have super Kung Fu powers, it doesn't help matters to have a white guy doing it instead.

My problem with the casting, which I expressed with the show was first announced, was that Marvel doesn't have many prominent Asian heroes. In my opinion casting Danny Rand with an Asian would have been a minor change to the canon and would have been a win in the diversity department. I think it was a missed opportunity.

Danny Rand is not an Asian hero. Also I love how you can simply dismiss stereotyping because... well no real reason actually.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I would disagree that it is problematic having a person learning an Asian discipline while in Asian be of Asian descent. And while it is stereotypical for an Asian character to have super Kung Fu powers, it doesn't help matters to have a white guy doing it instead.

My problem with the casting, which I expressed with the show was first announced, was that Marvel doesn't have many prominent Asian heroes. In my opinion casting Danny Rand with an Asian would have been a minor change to the canon and would have been a win in the diversity department. I think it was a missed opportunity.

Yeah, cause there are no good American martial artists in the world and only Asian people use martial arts

How is that mentality not racist?

 

[Zarex]

Oh, so it is marketing exercise. Not creating a show about Danny Rand, the Iron Fist.

Marvel is not making these shows because Ike Perlmutter is a swell guy. They're trying to earn a buck, and yes marketing is part of it. Increasing the fan base by diversifying the traditionally white, male superhero lineup is important, and Danny's casting was a missed opportunity.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, cause there are no good American martial artists in the world and only Asian people use martial arts

How is that mentality not racist?

I must be the only guy who watches combat sports on this site.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Did you miss the parts in those reviews that complained about many other things? I have read many Marvel fans claim that the only problem the critics have with the show is the white savior issue and that's just flat out untrue. It's like when DC fans peddle the falsehood that the only problem people have with the films is that they are too dark. Neither observation is true. You don't have to agree with the critics assessment but don't tell falsehood's because you want to like the show.

It's kinda hard to take their other criticisms seriously when their so focused on this aspect. The few reviews I have read that aren't concerned with this, do have me worried as does what has been said by the folks who have seen the show on the board.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Marvel is not making these shows because Ike Perlmutter is a swell guy. They're trying to earn a buck, and yes marketing is part of it. Increasing the fan base by diversifying the traditionally white, male superhero lineup is important, and Danny's casting was a missed opportunity.

The reason they are making a pretty penny is they are being faithful to their comics. It will be quite funny if Iron Fist does just fine on Netflix even with these reviews. Marvel has a lot of goodwill at his point.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I must be the only guy who watches combat sports on this site.

I use to be big into pro wrestling, does that count

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I use to be big into pro wrestling, does that count

You mean the place where your race literally defines your wrestling style?

 

[Spider-Fan]

You mean the place where your race literally defines your wrestling style?

Hahahahaha! This is so true t:

 

[Zarex]

Yeah, cause there are no good American martial artists in the world and only Asian people use martial arts

How is that mentality not racist?

Never once did I bring up racism in regards to the casting, or that only Asians excel at martial arts. Only that it was a missed opportunity to not provide needed diversity to the Marvel lineup by casting an ASIAN actor in the role of a man who travels to ASIA to become a master at an ASIAN discipline. But you may have a point. People of Asian descent would have been aghast at seeing an Asian lead as a superhero in a popular Marvel television show. I can see them crying in unison "That is mentally racist!!!!".

 

[Spider-Fan]

Never once did I bring up racism in regards to the casting, or that only Asians excel at martial arts. Only that it was a missed opportunity to not provide needed diversity to the Marvel lineup by casting an ASIAN actor in the role of a man who travels to ASIA to become a master at an ASIAN discipline. But you may have a point. People of Asian descent would have been aghast at seeing an Asian lead as a superhero in a popular Marvel television show. I can see them crying in unison "That is mentally racist!!!!".

That is not my point. My point is not that people wanted an Asian Iron Fist. My point is people want him to be Asian BECAUSE he is a martial artist, and that stems from stereotyping. THAT is my point

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Never once did I bring up racism in regards to the casting, or that only Asians excel at martial arts. Only that it was a missed opportunity to not provide needed diversity to the Marvel lineup by casting an ASIAN actor in the role of a man who travels to ASIA to become a master at an ASIAN discipline. But you may have a point. People of Asian descent would have been aghast at seeing an Asian lead as a superhero in a popular Marvel television show. I can see them crying in unison "That is mentally racist!!!!".

Yes you did. You don't have to say the word "racism" to bring it up. You have mentioned multiple times that Danny learning an "Asian discipline" is a problem.

We are not stupid.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That is not my point. My point is not that people wanted an Asian Iron Fist. My point is people want him to be Asian BECAUSE he is a martial artist, and that stems from stereotyping. THAT is my point

Exactly. Again I ask why this wasn't a big deal with any other character so far? It is because people are stereotyping Asians as martial artist.

 

[Zarex]

That is not my point. My point is not that people wanted an Asian Iron Fist. My point is people want him to be Asian BECAUSE he is a martial artist, and that stems from stereotyping. THAT is my point

You're missing the point. People wanted an Asian Iron Fist because the character was Asian in all but appearance. Just like David Carradine's character in Kung Fu, he grew up in Asia but was given a caucasian appearance to appeal to white audiences. If Danny learned the art of hallucinogenic screaming ala Angar rather than martial arts the point still stands.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You're missing the point. People wanted an Asian Iron Fist because the character was Asian in all but appearance. Just like David Carradine's character in Kung Fu, he grew up in Asia but was given a caucasian appearance to appeal to white audiences. If Danny learned the art of hallucinogenic screaming ala Angar rather than martial arts the point still stands.

Danny is not culturally Asian in the comic in the same way Harry Potter is not a wizard: you are introduced into his world through the eyes of a non-familiar. It is a very common tool in cinema to introduce new concepts to the viewer by seeing it through the eys of someone new to it. If Danny were Asian, he would just know the culture already. So, you're point doesn't stand. This comes back to stereotyping and people seeking him to be Asian simply because he is learning marital arts, which is something stereotypically Asian.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You're missing the point. People wanted an Asian Iron Fist because the character was Asian in all but appearance. Just like David Carradine's character in Kung Fu, he grew up in Asia but was given a caucasian appearance to appeal to white audiences. If Danny learned the art of hallucinogenic screaming ala Angar rather than martial arts the point still stands.

How much Iron Fist have you read? What makes Iron Fist Asian in all but appearance?

 

[Zarex]

Danny is not culturally Asian in the comic in the same way Harry Potter is not a wizard: you are introduced into his world through the eyes of a non-familiar. It is a very common tool in cinema to introduce new concepts to the viewer by seeing it through the eys of someone new to it. If Danny were Asian, he would just know the culture already. So, you're point doesn't stand. This comes back to stereotyping.

So all people of ethnic Asian descent - regardless of their country of origin or where their families have since immigrated, or how long ago their ancestors left their homelands -are familiar with the culture of the mystical city of K'un Lun?

How is that mentally not racist?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Danny is not culturally Asian in the comic in the same way Harry Potter is not a wizard: you are introduced into his world through the eyes of a non-familiar. It is a very common tool in cinema to introduce new concepts to the viewer by seeing it through the eys of someone new to it. If Danny were Asian, he would just know the culture already. So, you're point doesn't stand. This comes back to stereotyping and people seeking him to be Asian simply because he is learning marital arts, which is something stereotypically Asian.

It also plays into the ridiculous misconception that just because you are racially Asian, that makes you culturally Asian. I have Mexican roots. But I grew up in the US, do not speak Spanish, and as hard as my mother and grandmother may have tried, I am very American in terms of my culture.