Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

[ChrisBaleBatman]

And that's literally why Marvel need to do Ghost Rider and Moon Knight series. Marvel proved that they can do Ghost Rider on a TV budget, although if he headlines his own series, he needs a shorter season to spend more money on each episode.

Right now Marvel are in a situation where they're running out of white male leads and need to take more risks with leads of different backgrounds.

When it comes to the film side, Black Widow and War Machine are the only characters who I feel have enough source material to sustain multiple films. Venom over at Sony is a white guy but he's not one whom Marvel own the distribution rights to. There's also talk of Silver Sable who's a Jewish woman but again, over at Sony. Even among supporting characters, the next most obvious choices for additions to the Guardians of the Galaxy are Martyr and Moondragon who are both lesbians and Moondragon is butch enough to shave her head with a straight razor.

Then when it comes to characters more suited to TV, we see a similar pattern where Marvel have simply run out of white men.

Moon Knight - Jewish
Ghost Rider - 2 out of 4 are Hispanic, one of which is also female
She-Hulk - female
Blade - Black and an immigrant
Shang-Chi - Asian
Elektra - Asian and female


And with the New Warriors series, it'll likely focus on teen heroes who aren't part of the Runaways since Squirrel Girl is said to be involved so in addition to characters like Night Thrasher and Sillhouette, it's highly likely that America Chavez and Kamala Khan will show up in the cast. Darkhawk and Speedball will presumably be part of the cast so it's not like people can say that Marvel Studios have given up on white guys. Even with New Warriors, I'd rather Justice and Nova move on to Guardians, not because I want New Warriors to be more diverse but because I feel like Nova and Justice fit the Guardians better and because Nova's powers need a film budget.

The sole exception that I can see is Power Pack which would feature an all-white main cast and that's one that I still feel is better off on TV since I'm not sure how well a PG superhero film would fare and on film, the cast would age to fast + Julie won't wind up in a relationship with Karolina Dean if it were a film. Even then, it would be aimed at so much of a younger audience that it would be mostly stand alone. It's the only option for Marvel on TV that doesn't make the MCU more diverse and even then it wouldn't relate to anything until whoever plays Julie ages up enough that the show gets canceled and she gets added to the cast of Runaways. And half the cast is female anyway.

So it looks like when it comes to future properties, Marvel are literally running out of white guys. Like there's Venom, half the Power Pack and a small fraction of the New Warriors cast. Phase 4 is going to look a whole lot different from what came before simply due to necessity.

Yeah, it's getting to a point where Marvel has gone deep. They've made it to a point where they're in a position to make movies and shows obscure characters and widen the range. Like you said, they're just running out of white male lead characters at this point. And if they keep being successful, it might get to a point where the second generation characters that replaced the known characters, ie: a Captain America that isn't Rogers, or an Iron Man that isn't Stark, could actually happen.

It's a little shocking that a Black Widow movie hasn't happened yet. Especially with ScarJo, who's proven to be an action movie lead who can bank money.

I would give anything for a Moon Knight series. And there's been a rumor that Blade's rights are back in the hands of Marvel. A series, a movie, anything with Blade is something I'm down for. Hell, I watched the Spike TV series because of down I am for anything Blade. A Ghost Rider series...oh man. Oh man, that would be something.

Outside of Daredevil's Catholicism, religion isn't addressed a lot in mainstream superhero comics, or the live action properties based on them.

Speaking as a Catholic, I've found it refreshing. I mean, so many characters are never clear about political or religion ideologies. Having one who makes the sign of the cross right before suiting up felt new. It's Daredevil, I know. But, there's always stuff that I'm sure could get changed to try and not piss people off. It's why I love that Tony Stark is clearly, like his comic counterpart, a Republican. I mean, he doesn't say it...but we all know.

Whereas, for example, Oliver Queen on Arrow doesn't clearly have any political leanings. I think we're now at a point with how much Superhero/comic book adaptations we're getting that even something like showing one's religion, or politics, or being a non-white male could be enough to change things up and keep things interesting.

I forgot who mentioned in here, maybe it was dasher, but the idea of Marc being confronted by his father over him turning his back on Judaism to worship Khonshu could be storytelling gold on a Netflix series. Yeah, it's true that him being a white man who wears white will draw criticism. I'm sure there will be tons of morons who will make Klan comments on social media because they don't know who he is. But, making it clear what Moon Knight's background is, and wearing that fact like a badge, would counter all that. Him worshiping Khonshu is important, so religion would have to about as major a theme as it is with Daredevil.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Jeez, just read the quote from Jones about how it's hard to root for a rich white guy after Trump got elected.

I mean, c'mon. I doubt Batman, Green Arrow or Iron Man are taking dips in popularity anytime soon. People are freaking out right now because they want a Batman movie badly. Everyone seemed to scare the **** out of Ben Affleck because it's apparently all he's ever asked these days.

If people start turning on Batman, then we talk. I'm willing to blame Trump for a lot. But, c'mon.

I'll give him this much, though. Iron Fist was being dealt a rough hand before filming even started. Lots of loud, and angry, voices were making it a surprisingly heated debate about casting. Jones' has been carrying this charge since he got cast. Jones isn't American, either. I find that some of current America issues in regard to race relations are sometimes differently understood by people who aren't American.

 

[RaidenX]

Moon Knight - Jewish
Ghost Rider - 2 out of 4 are Hispanic, one of which is also female
She-Hulk - female
Blade - Black and an immigrant
Shang-Chi - Asian
Elektra - Asian and female

Nah..

She's GREEK

 

[Orba]

Are we certain Captain Britain is at Fox? Is it because of the Psylocke collection?

As far as I'm aware Captain Britain is with Marvel, he is not a Mutant, he was around for 10 years (with his own comic) before setting put inside a Mutant comic, and most importantly the MCU has used stuff from the Captain Britain comic. In Winter Soldier the Hydra S.H.I.E.L.D. team that Rumlow is called S.T.R.I.K.E, in the Captain Britain comics S.T.R.I.K.E. was the name of the British version of S.H.I.E.L.D. And the head of S.T.R.I.K.E. in the Captain Britain comics was Lance Hunter, a name used by Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

I can't see why Marvel would be using stuff from the Captain Britain comics in the MCU if they didn't also have Captain Britain himself.

 

[chamber-music]

I would settle for a Union Jack show. Joey Chapman going around kicking ass on espionage missions. Spitfire could be his boss and they could do flashbacks to the Falsworth families legacy as Union Jack/Baron Blood.

There are no major Jewish or Jewish American characters in the MCU.

There have been some Jewish characters in the MCU. More are on the way.

Doc Sampson is Jewish. Gert from The Runawys is Jewish. Mircochip from The Punisher is also Jewish.

I believe Doctor Abraham Erskine and Doctor Noah Burstein were Jewish.

Most of Marvels well known Jewish superheroes like Kitty Pryde, Legion, Magneto and the Thing are at Fox.

 

[MadVillainy]

Haven't read the article yet, so I could be wrong, but this is the stupidest f***ing title/basis for an article I've ever read regarding superheroes

"'Iron Fist' Is Too Rich And White For Me to Give A S**t"
http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2017/03/iron-fist-is-too-rich-and-white

 

[First Avenger]

Haven't read the article yet, so I could be wrong, but this is the stupidest f***ing title/basis for an article I've ever read regarding superheroes

"'Iron Fist' Is Too Rich And White For Me to Give A S**t"
http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2017/03/iron-fist-is-too-rich-and-white

This is Total nonsense.

 

[MadVillainy]

Read the whole article.

Ultimately, it goes back to the question I asked in the beginning: who in Trump's America needs the Iron Fist right now?

He does go on to criticize the show proper but stupid s*** like what u posted above is sprinkled throughout.

Now I'm not saying the show is good. I haven't even watched the trailers but the whole race discussion behind this is so freaking stupid. F***ing nonsense.

I don't comment on articles but I was tempted to with this.

Just... Ugh

 

[Dasher10]

Yeah, it's getting to a point where Marvel has gone deep. They've made it to a point where they're in a position to make movies and shows obscure characters and widen the range. Like you said, they're just running out of white male lead characters at this point. And if they keep being successful, it might get to a point where the second generation characters that replaced the known characters, ie: a Captain America that isn't Rogers, or an Iron Man that isn't Stark, could actually happen.

It's a little shocking that a Black Widow movie hasn't happened yet. Especially with ScarJo, who's proven to be an action movie lead who can bank money.

I would give anything for a Moon Knight series. And there's been a rumor that Blade's rights are back in the hands of Marvel. A series, a movie, anything with Blade is something I'm down for. Hell, I watched the Spike TV series because of down I am for anything Blade. A Ghost Rider series...oh man. Oh man, that would be something.



Speaking as a Catholic, I've found it refreshing. I mean, so many characters are never clear about political or religion ideologies. Having one who makes the sign of the cross right before suiting up felt new. It's Daredevil, I know. But, there's always stuff that I'm sure could get changed to try and not piss people off. It's why I love that Tony Stark is clearly, like his comic counterpart, a Republican. I mean, he doesn't say it...but we all know.

Whereas, for example, Oliver Queen on Arrow doesn't clearly have any political leanings. I think we're now at a point with how much Superhero/comic book adaptations we're getting that even something like showing one's religion, or politics, or being a non-white male could be enough to change things up and keep things interesting.

I forgot who mentioned in here, maybe it was dasher, but the idea of Marc being confronted by his father over him turning his back on Judaism to worship Khonshu could be storytelling gold on a Netflix series. Yeah, it's true that him being a white man who wears white will draw criticism. I'm sure there will be tons of morons who will make Klan comments on social media because they don't know who he is. But, making it clear what Moon Knight's background is, and wearing that fact like a badge, would counter all that. Him worshiping Khonshu is important, so religion would have to about as major a theme as it is with Daredevil.

I honestly hope that we don't see the second generation characters. Ironheart is an exception so long as Marvel don't kill off Rhodey to make room for her. And that's why I'm simply not a fan of Marvel current strategy. It's simply killing and replacing popular characters who fans have followed for decades.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Nah..

She's GREEK

Well, in the MCU, her origin was changed a bit.

 

[RockSP]

Right now Marvel are in a situation where they're running out of white male leads and need to take more risks with leads of different backgrounds.

Yeah, it's getting to a point where Marvel has gone deep. They've made it to a point where they're in a position to make movies and shows obscure characters and widen the range.

Well as a non white person I'm all for them showcasing different leads. It's a ****ed up mentality that they would only do so because they are running out of white ones, though lol.

And even then the "running out of white male lead characters" thing is an exaggeration, IMO. I mean marvel has a film franchise that stars Star Lord...a forgotten/obscure character until Giffen brought him back and Abbnett & Lanning furthered his story in the comics (which were some of my favorites, but not huge sellers). Legion of all characters now has his own tv series. Legion??? Yes I know Legion isn't part of the mcu but the point stands. If they want to stick to mostly white male leads they still have plenty to choose from.

 

[Dasher10]

Well as a non white person I'm all for them showcasing different leads. It's a ****ed up mentality that they would only do so because they are running out of white ones, though lol.

And even then the "running out of white male lead characters" thing is an exaggeration, IMO. I mean marvel has a film franchise that stars Star Lord...a forgotten/obscure character until Giffen brought him back and Abbnett & Lanning furthered his story in the comics (which were some of my favorites, but not huge sellers). Legion of all characters now has his own tv series. Legion??? Yes I know Legion isn't part of the mcu but the point stands. If they want to stick to mostly white male leads they still have plenty to choose from.

And while I'll admit that Legion and Guardians were deep cuts who were baffling choices to me, they were both done well. I feel like Jessica Jones and Luke Cage got rid of the risks involving other properties and when you look at what's left, most of the popular stuff doesn't involve a white guy.

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

Read the whole article.


He does go on to criticize the show proper but stupid s*** like what u posted above is sprinkled throughout.

Now I'm not saying the show is good. I haven't even watched the trailers but the whole race discussion behind this is so freaking stupid. F***ing nonsense.

I don't comment on articles but I was tempted to with this.

Just... Ugh

i'm very liberal, as in i voted for bernie sanders in the GENERAL election as a write-in, but god it's impossible to get through a media critique without an author name-dropping trump. it's infuriating and impossible to have objective media analysis in this day and age, and it's only going to get worse, it's only march lmao

 

[marcvader]

As a nonwhite male I really don't care about racial representation in my entertainment, it's just not important to me, never has been. I just want it done well first and foremost.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

As a nonwhite male I really don't care about racial representation in my entertainment, it's just not important to me, never has been. I just want it done well first and foremost.

As another nonwhite male, I care. I also care about female representation. But that doesn't mean that I want or expect them to change the race or sex of long standing characters.

 

[chamber-music]

Sometimes actors are cast simply because filmmakers and showrunners want to work with with a particular actor.

Not every casting decision is about race.

Benedict Cumberbatch wasn't cast as Doctor Strange because they wanted a white actor as Strange. Cumberbatch was cast because they wanted to work with the actor and thought he would be good in the role. The same goes for Idris Elba as Heimdall . Kenneth Brannagh wanted to work with Elba so cast him in the movie. Coogler and MBJ have a good working relationship which is why he casts him in all his films so far.

The leads in Marvel movies happen to be right for the role which is why they are so successful.

I get and agree with the campaign for more diversity/better representation but it is a bit disrespectful to the actors and filmmakers to simply say they were cast based on their ethnicity rather than their talent and suitability to the role.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Sometimes actors are cast simply because filmmakers and showrunners want to work with with a particular actor.

Not every casting decision is about race.

Benedict Cumberbatch wasn't cast as Doctor Strange because they wanted a white actor as Strange. Cumberbatch was cast because they wanted to work with the actor and thought he would be good in the role. The same goes for Idris Elba as Heimdall . Kenneth Brannagh wanted to work with Elba so cast him in the movie. Coogler and MBJ have a good working relationship which is why he casts him in all his films so far.

The leads in Marvel movies happen to be right for the role which is why they are so successful.

I get and agree with the campaign for more diversity/better representation but it is a bit disrespectful to the actors and filmmakers to simply say they were cast based on their ethnicity rather than their talent and suitability to the role.

Wasn't every name linked to Strange white? I am not saying that is wrong, but I don't think a lot of Hispanic, black or Asian actors got a call for Strange.

Do you think they would have cast a white person in MBJ's role in Black Panther?

 

[Dasher10]

Sometimes actors are cast simply because filmmakers and showrunners want to work with with a particular actor.

Not every casting decision is about race.

Benedict Cumberbatch wasn't cast as Doctor Strange because they wanted a white actor as Strange. Cumberbatch was cast because they wanted to work with the actor and thought he would be good in the role. The same goes for Idris Elba as Heimdall . Kenneth Brannagh wanted to work with Elba so cast him in the movie. Coogler and MBJ have a good working relationship which is why he casts him in all his films so far.

The leads in Marvel movies happen to be right for the role which is why they are so successful.

I get and agree with the campaign for more diversity/better representation but it is a bit disrespectful to the actors and filmmakers to simply say they were cast based on their ethnicity rather than their talent and suitability to the role.

Do you really want a male Silver Sable or She-Hulk or a white Blade or Shang-Chi? Even with the right actor, that would still rub me the wrong way. Some casting decisions have everything to do with race.

 

[chamber-music]

Do you really want a male Silver Sable or She-Hulk or a white Blade or Shang-Chi? Even with the right actor, that would still rub me the wrong way. Some casting decisions have everything to do with race.

None of those characters would ever be cast with white males in the role and no one is calling for them to be. I said before not every casting decision was race based. Obviously sometimes racial casting is applicable.

Wasn't every name linked to Strange white? I am not saying that is wrong, but I don't think a lot of Hispanic, black or Asian actors got a call for Strange.

Do you think they would have cast a white person in MBJ's role in Black Panther?

We never got a full list of what actors came to audition for Doctor Strange. The only actors we know for certain were Joaquin Phoenix and Cumberbatch. Keanu Reeves was a rumored name in the mix. Reeves is of mixed heritage.

MBJ name drop was an example of a actor being chosen being chosen for his talent and relationship with the filmmaker. They were not going to cast a white actor as Killmonger as it doesn't make sense for his character to be Caucasians.

 

[Darepool]

This is Total nonsense.

The whole controversy is.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

We never got a full list of what actors came to audition for Doctor Strange. The only actors we know for certain were Joaquin Phoenix and Cumberbatch. Keanu Reeves was a rumored name in the mix. Reeves is of mixed heritage.

MBJ name drop was an example of a actor being chosen being chosen for his talent and relationship with the filmmaker. They were not going to cast a white actor as Killmonger as it doesn't make sense for his character to be Caucasians.

But that is the point. We can talk about director's choice, but race does play a factor in many castings. Not all, but the majority, yeah. If you go and cast a family around two white parents, I don't think they are going to start testing black kids for the role of their kids. Same if it was two black parents, unless the specific idea is adoption and exploring race in that way. Which again, would make the casting based around race.

 

[MadVillainy]

As another nonwhite male, I care. I also care about female representation. But that doesn't mean that I want or expect them to change the race or sex of long standing characters.

Bingo

 

[metaphysician]

Killian resembled the modern interpretation of the Mandarin far more so than he did the original Yellow Peril version.

Doesn't really matter. The moment he became Chinese, all of the ( entirely real ) pictures from the first 30 years of the character's existence would come out.

 

[metaphysician]

We may be in a "hating billionaires" era...but I have only seen the trailer and I already hate THIS billionaire.

He was in a plane crash that killed everyone but him...he then lived in a strange land, unknown to anyone who had ever met him previously...for over a decade...then he finally returns, walks up to a clerk and is like "Hey...Danny Rand...can I go upstairs?" His assumption that no one would wonder how he is alive or how it could possibly not be an imposter shows him to be an INCREDIBLY STUPID person. Then...when security tried to escort him out...as they SHOULD do...and is their JOBS...he then physically assaults them.

I'm aware that there is no context around the scene in the trailer yet...but just judging from what I've seen, I can't stand this entitled idiot criminal.

Be fair. In Kun-Lun, its highly likely that you have to fight a gauntlet of mooks every time you want to talk to a bureaucrat. Its like filling out a preliminary data form, just something you do at scheduled appointments.

 

[P Supreme]

As a nonwhite male I really don't care about racial representation in my entertainment, it's just not important to me, never has been. I just want it done well first and foremost.

agreed I'm an Hispanic from NY and I couldn't careless about racial representation all I care about is a good representation of the source material not that it matters but when Marvel did Miles Morales I was like "meh" Im rocking with peter parker until I'm dead lol