Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

[Comicbookguy339]

All the clips look good and the fighting doesn't seem to suck either.

 

[Lilbaz]

Not understanding this asian representation argument. The majority of films made have asian leads. They are not underepresented at all.

 

[rashad]

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[YT]AMxh6bPve6o[/YT]

Pretty cool clips. I'm still looking forward to this show.**** the reviews. Except that VileOne review I trust him way more then most of the reviews I read.

Would you be singing their praises if it was the opposite? Just because most of the early reviews didn't fall in line with your expectations?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Confirmation bias is real.

 

[Slick]

Would you be singing their praises if it was the opposite? Just because most of the early reviews didn't fall in line with your expectations?

If it was the opposite I would still respect their opinion. TheVileOne is a member of this forum and a Iron Fist fan which most of the reviews seem like they never read an Iron Fist comic before. But I don't know I'm bias and a hypocrite.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That was an interesting post.

 

[Slick]

Lol just being honest. But for real I just trust somebody from this site more than I do some random site. Yes I wish the reviews were better but it's not going to keep me from watching and judging for myself. If I'm making any sense.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You definitely get credit for that.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The review coming from a fan would matter more to me, since they'd be better informed. But, that's just in general. I've heard the opposite argued, that being a fan compromises you.

But, that sure **** didn't save BvS or countless other comic properties from real fans. My experience has been fans, especially hardcore fans, can be the most brutal critic of all.

Anyone know if the release time is the same as the other Marvel shows? I assume it's the same, 3 AM Eastern tonight, right?

 

[Silvermoon]

The review coming from a fan would matter more to me, since they'd be better informed. But, that's just in general. I've heard the opposite argued, that being a fan compromises you.

But, that sure **** didn't save BvS or Batman and Robin. My experience has been fans, especially hardcore fans, can be the most brutal critic of all.

Anyone know if the release time is the same as the other Marvel shows? I assume it's the same, 3 AM Eastern tonight, right?

The 3AM Eastern/12AM Pacific I believe is Netflix's standard time of release for pretty much everything.

 

[Dasher10]

Anybody else realize that Taboo is the same story as Iron Fist but with better acting, writing and production values?

Or that Into the Badlands was also a highly successful martial arts drama which has far better fight scenes?

How long until Finn Jones starts blaming Tom Hardy and Daniel Wu?

 

[3dman27]

I've already added this series to my NETFLIX list

 

[Kane52630]

Here's the thread for episode 1.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=525991

 

[Slick]

Thanks Kane.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I've already added this series to my NETFLIX list

Good call. I've done the same.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I'm Latino, and from New York. I think representation matters, but I also think the source material is important. For the longest time, we had horrible comic book movies. Pretty bad shows, too. And usually it was because they didn't give a **** about the source material. BvS probably would have been better if they'd stuck closer to the source material. Maybe. I don't know, that movie was pretty bad.

I think the casting controversy with Iron Fist was just ****ed up. I mean, Danny is a white dude. That's kind of the beginning and the end of it for me. I'd be okay if they tried changing it, but them not...I don't know, I have too much respect for the comic book medium to rail against them sticking to it.

My point about the range widening, I mean it's kind of already happening really. It sounds like Marvel's going to do a Black Widow film at some point. We're getting a Black Panther movie. I think a War Machine movie is viable. We're supposed to be getting a Captain Marvel movie, too. The only reason we're getting those is because the long term plan has, so far, been successful. If they continue to be successful, and don't want to reboot Iron Man or Captain America (for example), refilling those roles with different characters as it's also happened in the comics, becomes a possibility.

Isn't this partly the argument for why Marvel is rightly catching flack?

We have progressed beyond the, "this is the best you could hope for" argument.

Turn that GOTG argument around. You can make a talking raccoon popular but you can't make a white Danny Rand's story less offensive? Get out of here Marvel.

Mandarin, Ancient One, the Hand, and Iron Fist all have Marvel tripped up when they go towards their Asian characters. One or two I could get, but it's like they don't even want to try writing them with some depth.

 

[Darepool]

Meh.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Isn't this partly the argument for why Marvel is rightly catching flack?

We have progressed beyond the, "this is the best you could hope for" argument.

Turn that GOTG argument around. You can make a talking raccoon popular but you can't make a white Danny Rand's story less offensive? Get out of here Marvel.

Mandarin, Ancient One, the Hand, and Iron Fist all have Marvel tripped up when they go towards their Asian characters. One or two I could get, but it's like they don't even want to try writing them with some depth.

The problem here is Danny being white seems to be what is offending people. Like he can't be white.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

The problem here is Danny being white seems to be what is offending people. Like he can't be white.

Those people show their stupidity by calling it Whitewashing.

But in terms of the critic reviews saying the show doesn't get out of his uncomfortable origins with Asian culture, this is how you fix it.Luke Cage leaned into his exploitation roots but updated them with interesting characters.

I don't see why Iron Fist couldn't do the same. It's a 12 hour show. One hour dedicated to the monks before Danny showed up and explaining their philosophy and struggles and lore of the Celestial Heaven/Iron Fist would have gone a long way towards fighting that argument.

We've seen shows like Marco Polo have a white protagonist in an Asian culture get praise because the Asian culture and characters around him are fleshed out.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Those people show their stupidity by calling it Whitewashing.

But in terms of the critic reviews saying the show doesn't get out of his uncomfortable origins with Asian culture, this is how you fix it.Luke Cage leaned into his exploitation roots but updated them with interesting characters.

I don't see why Iron Fist couldn't do the same. It's a 12 hour show. One hour dedicated to the monks before Danny showed up and explaining their philosophy and struggles and lore of the Celestial Heaven/Iron Fist would have gone a long way towards fighting that argument.

We've seen shows like Marco Polo have a white protagonist in an Asian culture get praise because the Asian culture and characters around him are fleshed out.

I don't know if it does that. But there is an obvious difference between Cage and Iron Fist. One was being praised for exploring its roots. This one is getting killed for it.

Also again, its "uncomfortable" seemingly simply because Danny is white.

 

[Heretic]

The complaint isn't about whitewashing an Asian character...it's about the habit that Hollywood has of having a white savior show up to a foreign land or culture and then become the best at what they do or otherwise have to lead them to victory. Everyone knows why this is done...and its time for it to stop. Marvel could have made the change and chose not to...after a recent history of avoiding addressing Asians in two other properties.

But yeah...I would love for this show to really get deep into the culture of K'un-Lun to develop some depth to what seems like a pretty shallow character.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The complaint isn't about whitewashing an Asian character...it's about the habit that Hollywood has of having a white savior show up to a foreign land or culture and then become the best at what they do or otherwise have to lead them to victory. Everyone knows why this is done...and its time for it to stop. Marvel could have made the change and chose not to...after a recent history of avoiding addressing Asians in two other properties.

But yeah...I would love for this show to really get deep into the culture of K'un-Lun to develop some depth to what seems like a pretty shallow character.

Danny isn't a white savior, so that is irrelevant. Danny is also not the best at martial arts in his own personal canon. So he isn't a white savior and he isn't the best at these mystical martial arts.

Danny is a kid dragged across the world so his father can earn the Iron Fist. That doesn't work out.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

The complaint isn't about whitewashing an Asian character...

This should be a non issue around Episode 7 imo

 

[Heretic]

Danny isn't a white savior, so that is irrelevant. Danny is also not the best at martial arts in his own personal canon. So he isn't a white savior and he isn't the best at these mystical martial arts.

Danny is a kid dragged across the world so his father can earn the Iron Fist. That doesn't work out.

So...Danny is not the best...yet still becomes the Iron Fist. Are you suggesting that the Iron Fist is not the champion/representative of K'un-Lun? The Iron Fist does not represent a special position in that society?

And it doesn't matter how or why he got there...he got there.

PS: From the Iron Fist Wiki- "Daniel proves to be the most gifted of Lei Kung's students."

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So...Danny is not the best...yet still becomes the Iron Fist. Are you suggesting that the Iron Fist is not the champion/representative of K'un-Lun? The Iron Fist does not represent a special position in that society?

And it doesn't matter how or why he got there...he got there.

PS: From the Iron Fist Wiki- "Daniel proves to be the most gifted of Lei Kung's students."

Iron Fist holding a special position does not make him the strongest warrior. He isn't even the strongest warrior in K'un-Lun.

It most certainly matters how he got there.

Yep, he is the most gifted student. How does that make him the strongest warrior? Lei Kung is stronger. On more then one occasion he has needed assistance to fight Steel Serpent.