Is Superman getting the shaft in "Justice League"?

[Da-Scribe]

As an introvert and a fairly private guy, it's nice to see myself in this hero for once. Sucks that people consider that sorta personality uninteresting, but to each his own.

 

[Arachnerd]

As an introvert and a fairly private guy, it's nice to see myself in this hero for once. Sucks that people consider that sorta personality uninteresting, but to each his own.

This.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Nobody is claiming that everyone has to love Superman after he gives a speech. But getting most of the public on his side would be good and realistic goal.

 

[The Guard]

As an introvert and a fairly private guy, it's nice to see myself in this hero for once. Sucks that people consider that sorta personality uninteresting, but to each his own.

Not so long ago, the general knock on Superman was that he was a cheerful boy scout, and therefore "boring".

People clamored for something like Snyder has delivered, with serious introspection about the character and the issues the world would face if he existed.

Then they got it and...

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I don't remember ever clamoring for a dark and brooding Superman who rarely ever talks and who rarely smiles or seems to enjoy anything. I mean I wasn't a big fan of Bryan Singer's interpretation of the character.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

As an introvert and a fairly private guy, it's nice to see myself in this hero for once. Sucks that people consider that sorta personality uninteresting, but to each his own.

The funny thing is I'm an introvert and I love introspection but let's face it Superman is a public figure at this point and if he's not going to give his point of view on the things he's doing or why he's doing them then why should he be upset if people view him as some sort of savior or fear him as some kind of devil? Why should he be upset if he's worshiped? He's doing other-worldly things. Of course he's going to be worshiped. It just seems like a stupid reason to get upset. He's been on Earth long enough to see people get worshiped for all kinds of trivial things...throwing a basketball through a hoop, throwing a football 60 yards, being a popular political figure, being a celebrity who can sing or act. That stuff pales in comparison to what he can do. If he doesn't want to be viewed as a savior and it bothers him there's nothing stopping him from saying it. He's banging a freakin report for heaven's sake. Let her or any fair reporter tell his story.

 

[The Guard]

The funny thing is I'm an introvert and I love introspection but let's face it Superman is a public figure at this point and if he's not going to give his point of view on the things he's doing or why he's doing them then why should he be upset if people view him as some sort of savior or fear him as some kind of devil?

Here's the thing.

He's not exactly upset about how people view him. Not for himself, at least.

He's concerned that THEY are upset about it. He's trying to put THEM at ease. He's trying to figure out what to do for them, what he should be for them.

When he's upset in the film, he's upset about the innocents suffering indirectly as a result of his existence, about the fact that he's trying to do good and it's causing issues, not the public's perception of him or his popularity. That's why the "vision" he has speaks to the fact that sometimes when you try to do good there are unfortunate conflicts.

Why should he be upset if he's worshiped?

He's not upset in that sequence.

His reaction is one of mild surprise. He's not encountered this before. At least, he wasn't expecting it.

 

[Nemeres]

I don't think people dislike the what as much as the how.

 

[odilonredon]

Not so long ago, the general knock on Superman was that he was a cheerful boy scout, and therefore "boring".

People clamored for something like Snyder has delivered, with serious introspection about the character and the issues the world would face if he existed.

Then they got it and...

where in the movie is there any "serious introspection" on snydermans part?
looking stoic over voiceover of charlie rose doesn't count

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

And this is where it gets stupid. What's preventing Superman from actually, I don't know, SPEAKING?!? He can't grant one freakin interview to give the world (who would all tune in or read) his point of view? He's a morose mute in these films. If people don't act the way he wants after he performs a heroic feat is he always going to fly off somewhere and mope about it? That's not going to accomplish anything and it's doing nothing for his character.

Not this interview idea again. I know I just had this discussion a few days ago so I'm stepping off the merry go round for now.

 

[odilonredon]

Not so long ago, the general knock on Superman was that he was a cheerful boy scout, and therefore "boring".

People clamored for something like Snyder has delivered, with serious introspection about the character and the issues the world would face if he existed.

Then they got it and...

the knock on superman returns was that superman doesn't do enough punching so naturally wb got zack snyder lol

there is no serious introspection in bvs. it's a (disjointed and oppressive) blockbuster action movie with pretensions of being deep but with no real substance beyond some surface level philosophical and sociopolitical ideas about "what superman would mean in the real world". that is what happens when you let zack snyder make your grounded serious take on superman in the real world: r/im14andthisisdeep: the movie.

i'm sorry but i really hate that movie and that zack snyder is making the sequel. i almost hate it as much as i love the characters he's adapting (which is a lot). i truly wish i saw what you guys see in it and him.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I find BvS very deep and one of the few CBMs that has more depth than a kiddie pool. Its not even just about Superman in the real world but the real people who face challenges like him when they do their job. I already stated that I see his struggle similar to the struggle of some of those fighting in the ME who have to second guess their actions because they might be painted in a bad light when they have done nothing wrong.
One of the most beautiful scenes to me was Clark talking with his dad about the Lang farm incident.
Other than Supes I also saw WW and Batman as weary types of vets; the former was so tired of war she isolated herself from the world. The latter wanted to strike first do to increased paranoia becoming the enemy he originally was fighting against.

 

[Kevin_28]

Really respect the opinions presented here. Although, I personally am more optimistic on how Superman will be handled in JL, I can understand why people may not be open to that as a possibility.

Would you say that him showing up to the Capitol was his way of trying to hash things out? At the point where the explosion occurs, did that possibly affect Clark in a such a way that he gave up on that as a pursuit?

 

[Superchan]

almost the entire time??? exaggerate much???
clark kent has never been treated and portrayed this good in all the previous superman movies. yes and it is a fact, not an opinion.

I find it funny that you said that I was exaggerating only to go and make such a hyperbolic statement. And No it's not a fact it's just your opinion, an opinion that many fans disagree with and you need to come to terms with it.

I personally think that Clark Kent was treated like s**t in the Snyder films, he was nothing but an emo mute in MOS and most of his meaningful scenes were cut in the theatrical cut of BvS.

 

[The Endless]

Based on... What? The Zod thing? Is that really all it come down too? Cuz what precisely makes Cav-el Supes an analog with those characters?

No not because he killed Zod. Because he's a miserable git who sees his responsibilities as a huge burden and unwanted obligation. This Superman has a cynical outlook on the world, not a hopeful one. This stems from the portrayal of his parents.

 

[Micromind]

Not this interview idea again. I know I just had this discussion a few days ago so I'm stepping off the merry go round for now.

The merry go round never stops in this thread.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I'll never get the notion that Clark sees the Superman thing as a burden. I legitimately can't think of any instance where he seems like he doesn't want to do it. Pretty much all of his frustration comes from the fact that he desperately wants to be Superman, but can't seem to do it in a way that makes everyone happy.

I know there's the whole "Superman was never real." thing, so I guess there's that. Feels like a brief moment though that doesn't characterize his overall outlook. The "This is my world." comment feels more like his overall viewpoint.

 

[Micromind]

the knock on superman returns was that superman doesn't do enough punching so naturally wb got zack snyder lol

there is no serious introspection in bvs. it's a (disjointed and oppressive) blockbuster action movie with pretensions of being deep but with no real substance beyond some surface level philosophical and sociopolitical ideas about "what superman would mean in the real world". that is what happens when you let zack snyder make your grounded serious take on superman in the real world: r/im14andthisisdeep: the movie.

i'm sorry but i really hate that movie and that zack snyder is making the sequel. i almost hate it as much as i love the characters he's adapting (which is a lot). i truly wish i saw what you guys see in it and him.

I hate this word.

God forbid if a director and writers include some layered political-philosophical themes in the movie, it has to be a self aware comedy which doesn't take itself seriously, because "hey look, it's Comics".

 

[Micromind]

No not because he killed Zod. Because he's a miserable git who sees his responsibilities as a huge burden and unwanted obligation. This Superman has a cynical outlook on the world, not a hopeful one. This stems from the portrayal of his parents.

I don't think Superman was cynical in this (or MoS) if he was.. then he would not -

* Surrender himself to army (in MoS)
* Surrender himself to Zod (in MoS)

In BvS -

* Just warn Batman first (when he stops the Bat-mobile)
* Appear before the Senate hearing.
* Trust Batman to save his mother.

 

[Herolee10]

For those that have seen the recently released "The Last Jedi" trailer, now that is what I would consider to be the best example of how you should tease a character's presence without actually showing much of them to spoil the story (regarding Luke).

Warner Bros's approach of getting fans excited for Superman by presenting trailers and posters pretending that he's no longer there is the most ******ed thing that I've ever seen.

The way Disney presented the trailer by showcasing Luke's presence without really showing him and only releasing certain stills of him is how you do it.

 

[The Endless]

I don't think Superman was cynical in this (or MoS) if he was.. then he would not -

* Surrender himself to army (in MoS)
* Surrender himself to Zod (in MoS)

In BvS -

* Just warn Batman first (when he stops the Bat-mobile)
* Appear before the Senate hearing.
* Trust Batman to save his mother.

He stops the Batmobile... after presumably watching Batman tear ass through the docks killing loads of people. His dialogue to Batman seemed a bit off too.

Ok he goes to the Senate.

Trusting Batman to save his mother is plot induced stupidity though. The guy just tried to execute him... but all of a sudden they are best friends? When Batman says "I'm friends with your son" to Martha the whole cinema laughed.

I can understand him being cynical and troubled in MOS. But you'd have thought he'd have come to some kind of acceptance in BvS. Or better yet, become proud of his role as Superman.

But he's still always sporting that furrowed brow. He's weighed down by his responsibilities and doesn't know how to handle them. This Superman literally says the words "no one on this world stays good!"

I get what Snyder and Co wanted to do. They want to show the MAN in Superman. And that's totally cool. But they've chose to show him as a man who has a cynical outlook on life instead of a hopeful one. Again like I said, this stems from the portrayal of the Kents. They raised him to be worried about his powers and the negative effect he will have on the world... rather than the positive effect.

 

[batfreakforever]

For those that have seen the recently released "The Last Jedi" trailer, now that is what I would consider to be the best example of how you should tease a character's presence without actually showing much of them to spoil the story (regarding Luke).

Warner Bros's approach of getting fans excited for Superman by presenting trailers and posters pretending that he's no longer there is the most ******ed thing that I've ever seen.

The way Disney presented the trailer by showcasing Luke's presence without really showing him and only releasing certain stills of him is how you do it.

Luke didn't die in the last film like Superman did. They want to keep Superman hidden until he is revealed in the film.

Seriously wtf. Fans go nuts when WB reveals too much in their trailers now they want Superman revealed in some way before the films release.

Yes we all know Henry Cavill will be in it but we dont know how and when which makes it fun and exciting. People are just impatient.

People lose their !@#$ because Superman isnt in the start of the team up but it wont become the Justice League anyway until Superman becomes fully into play.

I would think it would be great if the last shot of the film was a shot of the fully formed Justice League with Superman standing with them then the screen goes to black then the words "Justice League" appear like at the end of a chris nolan film.

 

[AvegningSpider]

No not because he killed Zod. Because he's a miserable git who sees his responsibilities as a huge burden and unwanted obligation. This Superman has a cynical outlook on the world, not a hopeful one. This stems from the portrayal of his parents.

Well, if your Dad said ''Let those kids to die'' instead of actually giving a good advice about keeping your secret and encorauge you into being a good person instead of making yourself feel bad because you did a good thing, you'd be a bit f'ed up as well.
PD: Mom doesn't really do that good of a job either with saying he doesn't own the world anything...except you know, it's the same world that hosted him his whole life, the one he lived, the one that had people who took care of him as a baby. If anything he owes it a lot taking in count the Kryptonians invaded because he was there but I don't know what he did after that to enmend it, mostly because they never tell us or show us as far as I remember.

 

[Herolee10]

Luke didn't die in the last film like Superman did. They want to keep Superman hidden until he is revealed in the film.

Seriously wtf. Fans go nuts when WB reveals too much in their trailers now they want Superman revealed in some way before the films release.

Yes we all know Henry Cavill will be in it but we dont know how and when which makes it fun and exciting. People are just impatient.

People lose their !@#$ because Superman isnt in the start of the team up but it wont become the Justice League anyway until Superman becomes fully into play.

I would think it would be great if the last shot of the film was a shot of the fully formed Justice League with Superman standing with them then the screen goes to black then the words "Justice League" appear like at the end of a chris nolan film.

Superman may have died in the film, but it's NO SECRET that he's coming back to life so I don't know who Warner Bros is trying to fool here.

Plus, unlike Luke (who is universally loved), Henry's Superman needs all the support that he can get and keeping him hidden and not giving fans (both new and old) any reasons on why they should be excited for Superman is even worse.

I'd like to add that no one has said that they wanted Superman's role to be spoiled. But to pretend that he doesn't exist anymore in the trailers and in the posters for the sake of pretending that the audiences are stupid is stupid.

The only reason why some fans are so sensitive is because of the Doomsday reveal in BvS. We know that Superman is in the film. We didn't know that Doomsday was in BvS. You can't even compare them.

 

[FunkMiller]

Not so long ago, the general knock on Superman was that he was a cheerful boy scout, and therefore "boring".

People clamored for something like Snyder has delivered, with serious introspection about the character and the issues the world would face if he existed.

Then they got it and...

When you say people, you mean comic book fans. Pretty sure the GA were still quite happy with the classic interpretation of the character.