Is Superman getting the shaft in "Justice League"?

Is Superman getting the shaft in "Justice League"?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Too soon to tell

  • Yes

  • No

  • Too soon to tell

  • Yes

  • No

  • Too soon to tell


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Yeah, that's a very fair point, and also the financiers just want to get the most back out of their investment, don't really care how the promotion affects people's experience in the theater, so they would probably go with the "better safe than sorry" promotional philosophy. Which is why I'll be very surprised if we get all the way to opening night without seeing Superman in a trailer, in some capacity.

What could work out for all parties is if they had a good emotional scene (something that shows a good part of Clark as a person) between Superman and Lois that took place before his death, that Lois is reminiscing about. Start the trailer out with that, then show a close up of Lois being taken out of her thoughts maybe Perry White is calling her name, or she's holding something of Clark's. Then the trailer goes forward with the focus on the other characters



I think it would be good in the trailer to build up that World Without A Superman feel, that shows how he has inspired people. That was one of my favorite story arcs as a kid (I had all three TPBs, Death, World Without, and Return), because it did a good job of showing you the importance of Superman, and the way he impacted and inspired ordinary people. So why not use the trailers to emphasize that point?

Well, lets be clear about something, they WILL show Superman in the trailers. That is an absolute fact. Its just a matter of which trailer(s) will they show him in and how long will they wait. My guess is the next story based trailer at comic con will show him. The marketing people have toys and merchandise and a brand to sell and theyre not going to leave the biggest gun out of it. The only question here how much of his revival will they spoil which is the only point of contention.
 
I'll never get the notion that Clark sees the Superman thing as a burden. I legitimately can't think of any instance where he seems like he doesn't want to do it. Pretty much all of his frustration comes from the fact that he desperately wants to be Superman, but can't seem to do it in a way that makes everyone happy.

He sees it as a burden because it is. Think about the demands that something like being Superman would create on a person. Being Superman WOULD be a burden. The comics tumbled to this years ago, and it's been part of the mythology ever since. The issue is that Superman only seems to see being Superman as a burden more than a priviledge, though that's not ever been communicated. He doesn't celebrate that he "gets to" do it. Yet.

I know there's the whole "Superman was never real." thing, so I guess there's that. Feels like a brief moment though that doesn't characterize his overall outlook. The "This is my world." comment feels more like his overall viewpoint.

"This is my world' is his viewpoint having involved. Having reconciled that things won't always be perfect, he has embraced his mission and his duty at this point.
 
I don't think Superman was cynical in this (or MoS) if he was.. then he would not -

He's not actually cynical in this movie, VS a brief period which is his "dark time". He's actually quite the opposite...he's somewhat naive. He does not expect the outcry about his actions, the burden this mission will be on him, or the "traps" that have been laid for him throughout the film, literal and otherwise.
 
When you say people, you mean comic book fans. Pretty sure the GA were still quite happy with the classic interpretation of the character.

Fans and media. There were articles written about how modern interpretations of Superman needed to portray him as less of a boyscout.
 
Less of a boyscout does not equal 90% sadface brooding. It's not either or, despite what WB, Zack Snyder and his hardcore fans believe. There is a middle ground, there is almost always a middle ground.
 
Someone seriously needs to teach the guard about the multi-quote button.

Less of a boyscout does not equal 90% sadface brooding. It's not either or, despite what WB, Zack Snyder and his hardcore fans believe. There is a middle ground, there is almost always a middle ground.

Prepare for those same five pictures of Clark smiling to be posted.
 
Trusting Batman to save his mother is plot induced stupidity though. The guy just tried to execute him... but all of a sudden they are best friends? When Batman says "I'm friends with your son" to Martha the whole cinema laughed.

What choice does he have? Luthor has to be stopped.

It's a funny line.

I can understand him being cynical and troubled in MOS. But you'd have thought he'd have come to some kind of acceptance in BvS. Or better yet, become proud of his role as Superman.

"This is my world" is clearly a moment of acceptance.

But he's still always sporting that furrowed brow. He's weighed down by his responsibilities and doesn't know how to handle them. This Superman literally says the words "no one on this world stays good!"

I get what you're implying, but you realize that some people's brows just have furrows, right?

There are times that Cavill smiles or just speaks and his brow still furrows.

He says "No one stays good in this world" at his lowest point. Superheroes say "depressed" things like this all the time in movies. It's a staple of cinema.

I get what Snyder and Co wanted to do. They want to show the MAN in Superman. And that's totally cool. But they've chose to show him as a man who has a cynical outlook on life instead of a hopeful one.

No, he has a cynical approach to the issues at hand in this film. Not life in general. He displays hope as reporter Clark Kent throughout much of the film.

Again like I said, this stems from the portrayal of the Kents. They raised him to be worried about his powers and the negative effect he will have on the world... rather than the positive effect.

The Kents raised him to be careful about the decisions he made because results like what happened in BVS could occur. And based on the events of BVS, they were probably in the right to do so.

They did not raise him to be worried. They raised him to be careful.

He becomes concerned about the issue in BVS because now his existence is causing OTHERS to worry, and eventually led to the death of innocent people.
 
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Someone seriously needs to teach the guard about the multi-quote button.



Prepare for those same five pictures of Clark smiling to be posted.

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:woot:
 
He sees it as a burden because it is. Think about the demands that something like being Superman would create on a person. Being Superman WOULD be a burden. The comics tumbled to this years ago, and it's been part of the mythology ever since. The issue is that Superman only seems to see being Superman as a burden more than a priviledge, though that's not ever been communicated. He doesn't celebrate that he "gets to" do it. Yet.

"This is my world' is his viewpoint having involved. Having reconciled that things won't always be perfect, he has embraced his mission and his duty at this point.

So what do you interpret his mission and purpose to be, and how do you see Superman developing beyond BvS? Where do you see WB taking the character from here?
 
I understand showing the Kents as concerned and prioritizing their son's well-being out of instinct. Smallville did it a lot and it's good drama. I think the big fat bummer is doing away with the notion of the Kents as representative of humanity at its most idealistic or generous. The initiative behind the Superman persona is 99 percent Jor-El's, right down to the costume, while Pa's philosophy comes down to waiting; waiting for the Right Moment, being passive until it's safer. Superman is less a product of Man and more one of superior alien wisdom, which leaves in me an iffy religious aftertaste. It messes a bit with the coziness of the Kent themes found elsewhere.
 
That all depends on what exactly they've shot though. For all we know there's going to be little exploration of just how much of an impact he had to the world. I for one have absolutely no idea how they are going to treat Superman in this film.

And that's the biggest concern that some of us here have, that we have no idea on how they'll use him.

I still can't wrap my head on how some people are going to be satisfied with just seeing him return at the end and joining the group then as opposed to getting a full character arc and having a lengthy appearance.


That's not what the marketing is about in this trailer though. It's not about 'where's Superman?', it's about setting the tone for the movie. A 'Where's Superman' campaign would have directly made mention of the characters absence. Anybody asking that question is asking it in spite of the trailer, not because the trailer is addressing it.

Agreed. If the goal of this marketing campaign was to raise the question of "Where's Superman", then Warner Bros is doing somewhat of a lazy job on it. The only reason why people ask on where Superman is isn't because the trailer raises the question but because they don't talk or show anything about it.

The trailers and posters don't even address his death and acts as if he isn't in the film (which we all know that he is).
 
And I'd like to also add that another thing is becoming very apparent and that is that Superman is no longer the "Chairman" or "Granddaddy" of this cinematic universe.

Seriously, we're getting like AT LEAST 3 Batman-Themed films in the near future (Batman Solo, Gotham Sirens, and Batgirl).

And when you add the fact that Superman was killed so that Batman could recruit and lead the Justice League into a new age of heroism, that pretty much shows that Superman was seriously screwed over by Warner Bros and Snyder in favor of Batman.
 
Fans and media. There were articles written about how modern interpretations of Superman needed to portray him as less of a boyscout.

Fans and media will talk and b***h until they're blue in the face but the success of portrayals like STAS, JL (season 2 onwards), LOSH (season 2 final in particular), L&C, Tyler Hoechlin's recent interpretation and All star Superman all say a different story.
And in the case of STAS superman was intentionally portrayed as less of a boyscout than any previous incarnations and the response was resounding and that's because Superman was also shown to be charming and intelligent.
Less of a boyscout doesn't mean that any and all charisma needs to be sucked out of the character as if Rudy Jones was directing the movie.
 
And when you add the fact that Superman was killed so that Batman could recruit and lead the Justice League into a new age of heroism, that pretty much shows that Superman was seriously screwed over by Warner Bros and Snyder in favor of Batman.

I don't think it'll play out that way. In theory, Batman and Diana are recruiting the league but we have no idea how that'll go. Zack said there will be struggle there. Quite frankly, I think Batman works his best in the shadows and WILL struggle at times at the reigns. I'm expecting Batman and the League to go through a mental block where they'll need a new sheriff in town to bring in the W (\S/).
 
I don't think it'll play out that way. In theory, Batman and Diana are recruiting the league but we have no idea how that'll go. Zack said there will be struggle there. Quite frankly, I think Batman works his best in the shadows and WILL struggle at times at the reigns. I'm expecting Batman and the League to go through a mental block where they'll need a new sheriff in town to bring in the W (\S/).

Well, we already know that Bruce recruits Barry will relative Ease. It's probably only Victor and Arthur that he has problems with, and the latter two only join because both of their personal lives are affected by the Parademons (Silas Stone is kidnapped and Atlantis is probably attacked).

I honestly don't think Diana will be involved in the recruitment process unless it's revealed that she was the one to have reached out to Victor initially.

But (as of now) NOTHING seems to suggest that Batman will have a hard time leading these guys based on everything that we've seen and heard. If Batman ends up failing to lead them, then it seems like Wonder Woman will perfectly be able to pick up the pieces from where Batman messed up.
 
I have no clue. Yeah we got reports of Batman films but I need to see that materialize.

As it is Superman has 1.5 and Batman has 1-1.5 depending on how you want to consider Suicide Squad.

I do feel that WB just won't give Superman any props. Like how about a Steel/Supergirl/Superboy/Legion movies?

But again we shall see how the future goes because next year it's still pretty equal among the heroes.
 
You know, Finn is yet another character on how a movie can promote his return and get people excited for it even though his fate was left on a cliffhanger in the previous film.

Even though we know that he awakes from his coma and recovers from his wounds in TLJ, seeing shots of him doesn't spoil that event at all.
 
Well, we already know that Bruce recruits Barry will relative Ease. It's probably only Victor and Arthur that he has problems with, and the latter two only join because both of their personal lives are affected by the Parademons (Silas Stone is kidnapped and Atlantis is probably attacked).

I honestly don't think Diana will be involved in the recruitment process unless it's revealed that she was the one to have reached out to Victor initially.

But (as of now) NOTHING seems to suggest that Batman will have a hard time leading these guys based on everything that we've seen and heard. If Batman ends up failing to lead them, then it seems like Wonder Woman will perfectly be able to pick up the pieces from where Batman messed up.

Nothing? Batman straight up tells Diana he was refused. I don't know yet how it plays out exactly but to say Batman has an easy time interacting with the others is to willfully misconstrue the statement Bruce makes about Aquaman turning him down (not to mention Aquaman grabbing him and slamming him against a wall) or the "temporary" line. Your premise that there is "nothing" seems to characterize those moments differently than I think is clearly implied, though again, we don't have the full details or context.
 
Nothing? Batman straight up tells Diana he was refused. I don't know yet how it plays out exactly but to say Batman has an easy time interacting with the others is to willfully misconstrue the statement Bruce makes about Aquaman turning him down (not to mention Aquaman grabbing him and slamming him against a wall) or the "temporary" line. Your premise that there is "nothing" seems to characterize those moments differently than I think is clearly implied, though again, we don't have the full details or context.

Well I meant "nothing" as in once he does manage to get all of the players together for the mission at hand, it doesn't seem like he'll much difficulty in getting them to work together from the shots that we've seen. Sure it's possible that there could be a few hiccups along the way for that as well, but it's a lot more believable than the other suggestion that people have brought up of Superman getting these guys to suddenly come together as one later on in the film.
 
Well I meant "nothing" as in once he does manage to get all of the players together for the mission at hand, it doesn't seem like he'll much difficulty in getting them to work together from the shots that we've seen. Sure it's possible that there could be a few hiccups along the way for that as well, but it's a lot more believable than the other suggestion that people have brought up of Superman getting these guys to suddenly come together as one later on in the film.

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't know if Superman is or is not the key factor to bring them together. But then it is also correct in my view to state nothing says that cannot happen either. I also think given what we have seen of Superman's abilities that he would be crucial in fending off an attack from superior forces as they will be facing. We also don't know how the story unfolds. Rather than assuming Superman is simply brought back as a pro forma thing in the finale it could well be that his resurrection is a key story point. Could be a race to brining him back to life. Could be possession of his body is what starts the ball rolling. We don't know. I do think it's not some grand leap to say that whether he "leads" or not that his return will be a turning point by providing concrete hope of victory for the others along with the obvious advantages his power brings.
 
It would be cool to see the Justice League fail on a few missions and Superman be the initiator of the regrouping period after being brought back. It's possible that Superman could spend some time with the villains or if Steppenwolf has access to his body first. Clark could wield some information about Steppenwolf or Darkseid that the other leaguers weren't privy to during that timeframe.
 
I can't speak for anyone else but I don't know if Superman is or is not the key factor to bring them together. But then it is also correct in my view to state nothing says that cannot happen either. I also think given what we have seen of Superman's abilities that he would be crucial in fending off an attack from superior forces as they will be facing. We also don't know how the story unfolds. Rather than assuming Superman is simply brought back as a pro forma thing in the finale it could well be that his resurrection is a key story point. Could be a race to brining him back to life. Could be possession of his body is what starts the ball rolling. We don't know. I do think it's not some grand leap to say that whether he "leads" or not that his return will be a turning point by providing concrete hope of victory for the others along with the obvious advantages his power brings.

At this point, I don't think anyone really cares on whether he leads or not (at least as far I have seen) but rather the concerns being that his return is going to be the ONLY thing that the character will have going for himself in this film and that he'll just be considered as the team's biggest gun (Hulk/Thor) as opposed to being a inspirational figure (not based on his strength but morals) that he is known for being in the comics.
 
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