Is there too much division in America?

[USMC]

I can agree in part. If there is no genetic proof, and there is not to this point, that being gay is genetic then they either choose it or we take it on "faith" that they are born that way. I don't buy it. My opinion is that it is choice, either consciously or un conscioulsy by means of upbringing and surroundings. Nurture rather than nature.

"No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue."

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20718


Seriously, you have absolutely no idea what goes on in the minds and hearts of any other human being. All you have is your opinion, against more and more scientific studies showing that homosexuality is more of a norm than you would admit.

For me, it is not a choice. For others, it may be.

The term "marriage" as you want it to be was not the original definition.

And homosexual relationships have been around well into recorded "civilization", as you put it. To say otherwise is completely false. Do some damn research, for Christ's sake.

 

[Addendum]

Why, nitehawk, because he has different opinions than you?

Holy ****, stop everything! This is earth shattering breaking news

 

[The Chairman]

I may support gay marriage...but I think it's a decision that should be left up to the states...

Am I the only one who doesn't think like this?

For me, it's the equivalent of the Civil Rights movement. What if that was left solely up to the states?

There isn't any. Check the Human Genome Project. Now I'm sure you WANT it to be genetic, but that really doesn't cut any ice.

Can I ask you something? If gays choose to be the way you are, how come most homosexuals are utterly shocked and horrifed when they first discover what orientation they are? How come they grapple with emotional, spiritual and moral issues if they could just "choose" to turn it off.

Homosexuality is not a choice. It's a hormonal based quality that develops over time.

 

[USMC]

Forever marriage has meant one thing and if the gays succeed then it will mean something that is not the same as before.

That's not a true statement at all.

 

[USMC]

And you say your a Marine. From what I read of you here I'd say the Corps would be ashamed to claim you.

Based off what?

 

[USMC]

Am I the only one who doesn't think like this?

For me, it's the equivalent of the Civil Rights movement. What if that was left solely up to the states?

I agree, and I know some people get pretty angry comparing the two.

For me, though, it is about equal rights and freedoms for all law-abiding citizens of this great country. Equal rights, not special rights.

 

[SuBe]

Based off what?

I guess he thinks that those in the Marine Corps are all brain washed to think and act a certain way.

Ha!

 

[Addendum]

That's so discriminatory.

It applies to all the branches

 

[kedrell]

That's not a true statement at all.

Prove it. Show where gay marriage existed before in human culture.

 

[Addendum]

http://www.colorq.org/Articles/article.aspx?d=2004&x=ssmarriage

 

[kedrell]

Am I the only one who doesn't think like this?
For me, it's the equivalent of the Civil Rights movement. What if that was left solely up to the states?
Can I ask you something? If gays choose to be the way you are, how come most homosexuals are utterly shocked and horrifed when they first discover what orientation they are? How come they grapple with emotional, spiritual and moral issues if they could just "choose" to turn it off.

Homosexuality is not a choice. It's a hormonal based quality that develops over time.

There's no proof that that is true.

 

[kedrell]

http://www.colorq.org/Articles/article.aspx?d=2004&x=ssmarriage

Hmm if any of that is true, and I have no way of varifying it or not, it seems to be tiny pockets of such acceptance meaning it could just be the exception that still proves the rule.

 

[SuBe]

Prove it. Show where gay marriage existed before in human culture.

In my opinion, that shouldn't matter in the equation.

Does two guys getting married harm any other individual? No.
Does the act of Government deciding anything that involves the life of 2 consenting adults were those two adults don't harm anyone else Justified?
Does allowing 2 adults to married, regardless of gender, impede the rights of anyone else? No.

Then, it, in of itself, is not unconstitutional. Why do you feel your rights are violated by two people doing something that doesn't in any way affect you?

 

[kedrell]

And for centuries, black people were enslaved by western societies because it was the "norm." Are you saying the United States did a bad thing by abolishing slavery and changing the role of blacks in our society?

You're seriously comparing something that has been around since the dawn of time(marriage) with a rascist system that lasted on only a few centuries?

 

[Addendum]

And gay marriage existed in the Roman Empire, until it was outlawed in 342 CE

 

[SuBe]

You're seriously comparing something that has been around since the dawn of time(marriage) with a rascist system that lasted on only a few centuries?

Slavery has being around since the dawn of time also, just the Peoples involved has changed.

 

[kedrell]

In my opinion, that shouldn't matter in the equation.

Does two guys getting married harm any other individual? No.
Does the act of Government deciding anything that involves the life of 2 consenting adults were those two adults don't harm anyone else Justified?
Does allowing 2 adults to married, regardless of gender, impede the rights of anyone else? No.

Then, it, in of itself, is not unconstitutional. Why do you feel your rights are violated by two people doing something that doesn't in any way affect you?

Hey, I was all in favor of the civil unions compromise. But no, that wasn't good enough for the gays. They still think they're the new black people and this is their 1955-1967 rights movement. In fact Paradoxium said something I agree with on another thread, or maybe it was this thread. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that all marriages should be civil unions from the gov'ts POV. Both straight and gay. Just leave the marriage term as a religious term. I'd be fine with that.

 

[SuBe]

Hey, I was all in favor of the civil unions compromise. But no, that wasn't good enough for the gays. They still think they're the new black people and this is their 1955-1967 rights movement. In fact Paradoxium said something I agree with on another thread, or maybe it was this thread. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that all marriages should be civil unions from the gov'ts POV. Both straight and gay. Just leave the marriage term as a religious term. I'd be fine with that.

I'll agree with the Civil Unions, but what if the Religious Organization reconizes the union, then deems it Marriage?

 

[Addendum]

But marriage wasn't created by religion.

 

[kedrell]

Slavery has being around since the dawn of time also, just the Peoples involved has changed.

I was speaking of a specific type of slavery that started in the 2nd millenium A.D. and was specifically targeted at Africans. Of course slavery itself has been around forever.

 

[kedrell]

I'll agree with the Civil Unions, but what if the Religious Organization reconizes the union, then deems it Marriage?

Not really getting what you're saying there. Which Religious Organization?

 

[kedrell]

And gay marriage existed in the Roman Empire, until it was outlawed in 342 CE

All that proves is that gays have tried this before and been denied as well.

 

[The Senator]

Not really getting what you're saying there. Which Religious Organization?

The United Church of Christ, Lutherans, Reform Jews and Unitarian Universalists have expressed their support for gay marriage.

 

[SuBe]

Not really getting what you're saying there. Which Religious Organization?

There are organized Religion out there that reconize Homosexuality. They have Homosexuals in there church. They would be willing to marry a Homosexual couple. If that Religous organization preforms the Wedding ceremony, can it be called a Marriage then?

 

[kedrell]

But marriage wasn't created by religion.

Are you sure? I'm not saying it was created by Christianity but religion in one form or another goes back to the dawn of time as well and marriage has always been a part of it.