Guardians of the Galaxy James gunn fired!!!

[TheVileOne]

Technically, Gunn's freedom of speech has not been violated through his firing by Disney.

I'm not sure it was the right thing to do either, but the current climate has basically made it so any of this type of content is unacceptable.

And yes plenty of other comedians have made jokes on topics like this in the past. But usually they are done on TV through characters in late time slots. It's easier to get away with that than explain why a man in his 40s is posting about such things.

 

[Doug_Moore]

Joke or not , Disney and Marvel do not want their names and the term pedophilia in the same sentence, regardless of the context.

This. If the police found Gunn with child porn in his possession, it would be a PR nightmare for Disney.

 

[Frodo]

Disney has had a long history of hardball and cutthroat tactics, ( See Robin Williams and Aladin, The lawsuits with Winnie the Pooh and Who framed Roger Rabbit, Peggy Lee Lady and the Tramp lawsuit, etc)so them canning Gunn really didn't come as a shock to me as it clearly has for a lot of fanboys.

Fanboys looking for Disney to forgive, to try to set some high moral example about discourse, to be fair, just, and right, to give second chances and allow people to change, have really been looking in the wrong place.


I don't know what kind of corporation fanboys thought Disney was , but if they didn't realize it before, they should realize now, that Disney thinks and cares about Disney when it comes to profits and their bottom line.

That's who they are, that's how they roll ,and they aren't gonna change, no matter how much fandom may want them to.

 

[Zarex]

This. If the police found Gunn with child porn in his possession, it would be a PR nightmare for Disney.

As far as we know there's absolutely no reason to suspect Gunn of harming children or anyone else during the course of his work or personal life. To suggest some jokes made in poor taste on the Twitter machine suggests actual criminal behavior is ridiculous.

Disney has had a long history of hardball and cutthroat tactics, ( See Robin Williams and Aladin, The lawsuits with Winnie the Pooh and Who framed Roger Rabbit, Peggy Lee Lady and the Tramp lawsuit, etc)so them canning Gunn really didn't come as a shock to me as it clearly has for a lot of fanboys.

Fanboys looking for Disney to forgive, to try to set some high moral example about discourse, to be fair, just, and right, to give second chances and allow people to change, have really been looking in the wrong place.


I don't know what kind of corporation fanboys thought Disney was , but if they didn't realize it before, they should realize now, that Disney thinks and cares about Disney when it comes to profits and their bottom line.

That's who they are, that's how they roll ,and they aren't gonna change, no matter how much fandom may want them to.

Iger backed down just last year when he banned the LA Times from reviewing movies due to unfavorable articles about the Mouse's meddling in Anaheim politics. So there is precedent for changing decisions in the face of outside pressure.

And Disney is all about pleasing the "fanboys" you derisively reference (Are there any non fanboys on the site?), which include over 275,000 people who signed the petition to reinstate Gunn. The bad publicity from kowtowing to a cybernazi attack is far worse than it would have been if Horn hadnt behaved rashly.

It's never too late to do the right thing.

 

[Ozbridge]

Assuming all 275k people who sign the petition will boycott future MCU movies, and each ticket cost 15 dollars, that will make the movies’ box office decrease by a whopping 4 million each. That’s the only number Disney cares about.

So I guess if people want Bob Iger or Alan Horn to glance their way they need to try a bit harder.

 

[AlluAllu]

Maybe a good compromise could be rehiring Gunn as the writer, but not as the director.

 

[Zarex]

Assuming all 275k people who sign the petition will boycott future MCU movies, and each ticket cost 15 dollars, that will make the movies’ box office decrease by a whopping 4 million each. That’s the only number Disney cares about.

So I guess if people want Bob Iger or Alan Horn to glance their way they need to try a bit harder.

It's up over 288K. You don't think Disney cares about nearly 300,000 potential customers calling them out for kowtowing to a cybernazi?

Feige's silence on this matter is deafening. We're nearly a week into this foolishness and he has neither acknowledged his boss' rash decision nor has he announced that he is searching for a replacement. Until the Marvel Studios President makes a statement there's still a change Disney does the right thing.

 

[skybender]

It's up over 288K. You don't think Disney cares about nearly 300,000 potential customers calling them out for kowtowing to a cybernazi?

Feige's silence on this matter is deafening. We're nearly a week into this foolishness and he has neither acknowledged his boss' rash decision nor has he announced that he is searching for a replacement. Until the Marvel Studios President makes a statement there's still a change Disney does the right thing.

While I don't think that they'll reverse the decision by any means, I do think it's time for Marvel themselves to release a parting statement of some sorts.

 

[Frodo]

Iger backed down just last year when he banned the LA Times from reviewing movies due to unfavorable articles about the Mouse's meddling in Anaheim politics. So there is precedent for changing decisions in the face of outside pressure.

And Disney is all about pleasing the "fanboys" you derisively reference (Are there any non fanboys on the site?), which include over 275,000 people who signed the petition to reinstate Gunn. The bad publicity from kowtowing to a cybernazi attack is far worse than it would have been if Horn hadnt behaved rashly.

It's never too late to do the right thing.

I'm a fanboy dude. Look at my screen name. You're a fanboy, I'm a fanboy. And no Disney, isn't about pleasing fanboys , like us, all the time, and calling them cybernazi's are insulting them isn't gonna change their minds, even if that characterization of them may be correct.

If anything it will force them to double down because they don't want to cave to pressure from , yes fanboys, who are raging and insulting them for a decision they feel hurts their bottom line.

Again, you may not want to hear it or like it , but Disney will put Disney first over fanboys in this type of situation. Don't kid yourself.

What would actually be more effecting then calling them cybernazi's would be to get the GOTG actors to walk away from the franchise due to how they treated Gunn. Then I could possibly see them changing their minds.

 

[Zarex]

I'm a fanboy dude. Look at my screen name. You're a fanboy, I'm a fanboy. And no Disney, isn't about pleasing fanboys , like us, all the time, and calling them cybernazi's are insulting them isn't gonna change their minds, even if that characterization of them may be correct.

If anything it will force them to double down because they don't want to cave to pressure from , yes fanboys, who are raging and insulting them for a decision they feel hurts their bottom line.

Again, you may not want to hear it or like it , but Disney will put Disney first over fanboys in this type of situation. Don't kid yourself.

What would actually be more effecting then calling them cybernazi's would be to get the GOTG actors to walk away from the franchise due to how they treated Gunn. Then I could possibly see them changing their minds.

I'm calling Mike Cernovich and his alt-right crew of deplorables cybernazis. Not Disney.

And to suggest that Disney will double down on a bad decision because of what - pride? - is silly. Don't kid yourself. Iger caved into pressure just last year in a dispute with the LA Times. He'll do it again if it is in The Walt Disney Company's best interests.

You may not want to hear it or like it, but I'm confident Disney will make the smart business decision. Which in this case involves keeping those stupid fanboys happy and buying tickets to a franchise that has brought in over $350M in profits in just two films. Fanboys, the cast and crew and a suspiciously silent Kevin Feige working together have the juice to get Disney to do the right thing.

 

[Frodo]

I'm calling Mike Cernovich and his alt-right crew of deplorables cybernazis. Not Disney.

And to suggest that Disney will double down on a bad decision because of what - pride? - is silly. Don't kid yourself. Iger caved into pressure just last year in a dispute with the LA Times. He'll do it again if it is in The Walt Disney Company's best interests.

You may not want to hear it or like it, but I'm confident Disney will make the smart business decision. Which in this case involves keeping those stupid fanboys happy and buying tickets to a franchise that has brought in over $350M in profits in just two films. Fanboys, the cast and crew and a suspiciously silent Kevin Feige working together have the juice to get Disney to do the right thing.

Well, now that you've made clear who you're referring to with cybernazis fair enough.

Look, If you think Disney will back down and rehire Gunn due to fan pressure , that's how you feel.

I'm just telling you, given Disney's past, that fan outrage alone is not gonna be enough for them to undo something they think is in their best business interest. Its not about what I like or how I feel, that's irrelevant, its how they see it , and I'm telling you how they see it.

You don't think its in their best business interests to fire Gunn , but they do, whether you or I like that, agree with it, or want to hear it or not. That's how they see it, and they're not gonna see it differently unless they feel that firing Gunn does hurt their business interests.

Whether they're right to see it that way, or smart to see it that way is, a different subject. But that's how they see it. That's their perspective. For fanboys not to understand or want to accept that, is silly.

However, I take it from your posts that you realize that they do see it that way, and effecting their bottom line is the way to get them to change. That aspect of your argument, I do agree with.

As far as doubling down in spite of fan outrage goes , they will because, again, they don't consider it a bad business decision to fire Gunn, quite the opposite, and because hiring Gunn back over fan backlash would set a precedence in the future to undo any decision purely because it isn't popular with the fans.

Let me make it clear, its not about pride, its about doing what they feel is in their best interest. Fanboys insulting them, raging at them, as a lot have been, certainly means Disney will take them less seriously and is a non starter in getting them to change their minds.

That's not about Pride, that's about knowing how to persuade someone to see things your way. It doesn't work in business, and its certainly not gonna work with a corporation like Disney.Showing how their decision hurts their own business interests is the way to do it. That's why I say Disney puts Disney first.

And let me be clear, I'm not saying Disney never bows to pressure, The Iger situation is a good example, ABC also Rosanne was canned do to public pressure and threats of boycotts .

What I'm saying is , that in this particular circumstance of Gunn's tweets, they're not going to bow to pressure based purely on fan outrage alone even with the petitions.

Again, as stated before, If the rest of the cast decides to walk from GOTG 3 in support of Gunn that would certainly get them to consider rehiring Gunn. If you disagree, than you disagree.

Getting the cast of GOTG to show they'd walk for Gunn would be far more effective at getting Disney to change their minds and reverse course because that potentially really could effect their bottom line beyond just fans who are upset.

That effects the average joe and jane who know or care nothing about what's going on with Gunn but will be mad if Chris Pratt or Dave Bautista doesn't return.

 

[Prettyricky]

I'm calling Mike Cernovich and his alt-right crew of deplorables cybernazis. Not Disney.

And to suggest that Disney will double down on a bad decision because of what - pride? - is silly. Don't kid yourself. Iger caved into pressure just last year in a dispute with the LA Times. He'll do it again if it is in The Walt Disney Company's best interests.

You may not want to hear it or like it, but I'm confident Disney will make the smart business decision. Which in this case involves keeping those stupid fanboys happy and buying tickets to a franchise that has brought in over $350M in profits in just two films. Fanboys, the cast and crew and a suspiciously silent Kevin Feige working together have the juice to get Disney to do the right thing.

Whens the last time disney or any big studio fired someone from a project and brought them right back? I honestly cant think of any moments. Hes fired and disney is just gonna weather this current storm then in a few months they'll announce a replacement and well move on. James Gunn is hardly the soul of this franchise.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Whens the last time disney or any big studio fired someone from a project and brought them right back? I honestly cant think of any moments. Hes fired and disney is just gonna weather this current storm then in a few months they'll announce a replacement and well move on. James Gunn is hardly the soul of this franchise.

Actually, I think the inherent problem most have here is that he sort of IS. Not the MCU, but certainly he is for the Guardians. That franchise I would argue has the largest director fingerprint of any MCU franchise (except maybe Whedon's Avengers films...which like Gunn he also wrote).

 

[Frodo]

Actually, I think the inherent problem most have here is that he sort of IS. Not the MCU, but certainly he is for the Guardians. That franchise I would argue has the largest director fingerprint of any MCU franchise (except maybe Whedon's Avengers films...which like Gunn he also wrote).

I guess that's really the debate. Is GOTG James Gunn or is it the cast and they characters they play? They're linked to be sure, and perhaps GOTG isn't a hit without Gunn's talent, but at the same time, it probably not as good without Pratt as Starlord, Cooper as Rocket , etc. Disney has lost Gunn but audiences come to see Chris Pratt, Rocket, and Drax , regardless of who's directing.

I think ultimately Disney see's that franchise as larger than one director, regardless of the imprint the director puts on it. Unless Gunn planned on making those films for the rest of his career , Disney was eventually going to move on from him and hand the reigns to someone else anyway, so in their minds , Gunn and his talent is not irreplaceable as a lot of fans think he is.

That seems to be one of the main fissures between fandom and Disney.

 

[Detective Conan]

Actually, I think the inherent problem most have here is that he sort of IS. Not the MCU, but certainly he is for the Guardians. That franchise I would argue has the largest director fingerprint of any MCU franchise (except maybe Whedon's Avengers films...which like Gunn he also wrote).

Black Panther seems to be a close runner up in terms of MCU films with strong directorial fingerprints.

 

[Zarex]

Well, now that you've made clear who you're referring to with cybernazis fair enough.

Look, If you think Disney will back down and rehire Gunn due to fan pressure , that's how you feel.

I'm just telling you, given Disney's past, that fan outrage alone is not gonna be enough for them to undo something they think is in their best business interest. Its not about what I like or how I feel, that's irrelevant, its how they see it , and I'm telling you how they see it.

You don't think its in their best business interests to fire Gunn , but they do, whether you or I like that, agree with it, or want to hear it or not. That's how they see it, and they're not gonna see it differently unless they feel that firing Gunn does hurt their business interests.

Whether they're right to see it that way, or smart to see it that way is, a different subject. But that's how they see it. That's their perspective. For fanboys not to understand or want to accept that, is silly.

However, I take it from your posts that you realize that they do see it that way, and effecting their bottom line is the way to get them to change. That aspect of your argument, I do agree with.

As far as doubling down in spite of fan outrage goes , they will because, again, they don't consider it a bad business decision to fire Gunn, quite the opposite, and because hiring Gunn back over fan backlash would set a precedence in the future to undo any decision purely because it isn't popular with the fans.

Let me make it clear, its not about pride, its about doing what they feel is in their best interest. Fanboys insulting them, raging at them, as a lot have been, certainly means Disney will take them less seriously and is a non starter in getting them to change their minds.

That's not about Pride, that's about knowing how to persuade someone to see things your way. It doesn't work in business, and its certainly not gonna work with a corporation like Disney.Showing how their decision hurts their own business interests is the way to do it. That's why I say Disney puts Disney first.

And let me be clear, I'm not saying Disney never bows to pressure, The Iger situation is a good example, ABC also Rosanne was canned do to public pressure and threats of boycotts .

What I'm saying is , that in this particular circumstance of Gunn's tweets, they're not going to bow to pressure based purely on fan outrage alone even with the petitions.

Again, as stated before, If the rest of the cast decides to walk from GOTG 3 in support of Gunn that would certainly get them to consider rehiring Gunn. If you disagree, than you disagree.

Getting the cast of GOTG to show they'd walk for Gunn would be far more effective at getting Disney to change their minds and reverse course because that potentially really could effect their bottom line beyond just fans who are upset.

That effects the average joe and jane who know or care nothing about what's going on with Gunn but will be mad if Chris Pratt or Dave Bautista doesn't return.

Neither of us knows how Disney sees it. We're both just guessing here.

Whens the last time disney or any big studio fired someone from a project and brought them right back? I honestly cant think of any moments. Hes fired and disney is just gonna weather this current storm then in a few months they'll announce a replacement and well move on. James Gunn is hardly the soul of this franchise.

Brian Singer and Dan Harmon on X-Men and Community immediately come to mind.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I guess that's really the debate. Is GOTG James Gunn or is it the cast and they characters they play? They're linked to be sure, and perhaps GOTG isn't a hit without Gunn's talent, but at the same time, it probably not as good without Pratt as Starlord, Cooper as Rocket , etc. Disney has lost Gunn but audiences come to see Chris Pratt, Rocket, and Drax , regardless of who's directing.

I think ultimately Disney see's that franchise as larger than one director, regardless of the imprint the director puts on it. Unless Gunn planned on making those films for the rest of his career , Disney was eventually going to move on from him and hand the reigns to someone else anyway, so in their minds , Gunn and his talent is not irreplaceable as a lot of fans think he is.

That seems to be one of the main fissures between fandom and Disney.

People connected to GotG because of Gunn's sensibilities very heavily. Yeah, the cast are entertaining, but what really connected people was how he made the whacky elements work in a way that didn't alienate people, the soundtrack telling the story, etc. The heart and soul of the story is why it worked, and that was all Gunn. My fear is Vol. 3 will come off as a knock-off, not the genuine thing. Will people see it? I am sure they will, but I have my doubts people will connect to it like the did Vol 1 or 2.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Black Panther seems to a be close runner up in terms of MCU films with strong directorial fingerprints.

I would say that and Thor: Ragnarok. BP is more obvious, but Taika's vision and pacing of Ragnarok is very apparent.

 

[Zarex]

People connected to GotG because of Gunn's sensibilities very heavily. Yeah, the cast are entertaining, but what really connected people was how he made the whacky elements work in a way that didn't alienate people, the soundtrack telling the story, etc. The heart and soul of the story is why it worked, and that was all Gunn. My fear is Vol. 3 will come off as a knock-off, not the genuine thing. Will people see it? I am sure they will, but I have my doubts people will connect to it like the did Vol 1 or 2.

Brian Singer and Dan Harmon were both brought back to their respective franchises for that reason. XM:TLS and Season 4 both seemed inauthentic without their involvement. Hopefully we won't have to suffer through a director doing a Gunn impersonation instead of Disney doing the right thing.

 

[Tony Stark]

Technically, Gunn's freedom of speech has not been violated through his firing by Disney.

I'm not sure it was the right thing to do either, but the current climate has basically made it so any of this type of content is unacceptable.

And yes plenty of other comedians have made jokes on topics like this in the past. But usually they are done on TV through characters in late time slots. It's easier to get away with that than explain why a man in his 40s is posting about such things.

Very true, the first amendment only protects you from persecution/prosecution for speech, it does not protect you from a private enterprise like Disney from refusing to do business with you.

 

[Frodo]

Neither of us knows how Disney sees it. We're both just guessing here.
.

Nah, its pretty clear they made a business calculation and they see it in those terms. Disney really isn't that complicated or that ambiguous when it comes to their motivations.

Even a lot of Disney harshest critics over their decision have argued they did it from a business perspective even if they think it was the wrong perspective to view it from. What their motivations were really isn't in dispute .

Now why Feige hasn't said anything either way in support of Gunn or Disney's decision , I gotta say, is questionable .

 

[Skrilla31]

There's not really a comparison here. First off Gunn apologized six years ago for his stuff and you can see that he's clearly grown and evolved as a person and an artist. Roseanne racist tweet was just an extension of the garbage fire person she has always been.

I saw someone online tweet something that resonated with me. They said essentially that a pedophilia joke isn't pedophilia, but a racist joke is racism. I agree with that.

This is ridiculous logic. If we can make light of pedophila, surely we can make light of each other’s differences. It’s a slippery slope once you dictate what we can and can’t satire.

Black and brown comedians have been living off this kind of material for years, highlighting the differences between them and white people. No one seems to bat an eye when they make fun of the way a white person sounds, looks, speaks... but when it’s done in reverse there’s outrage.

Either we can all laugh at each other or we can’t.

 

[Prettyricky]

Neither of us knows how Disney sees it. We're both just guessing here.



Brian Singer and Dan Harmon on X-Men and Community immediately come to mind.

Yeah I guess but were they ever outright fired from an xmen film and brought right back to that very film? Did fox ever come out on a statement with singer during the xmen days? I know they did for bohemian rhapsody but with xmen it came off like they were aware but didnt care as long as tje films were hits.

 

[Mike5575]

Jennifer Holland, Jame's girlfriend for past 3 years has deleted her Twitter. That's sad.

 

[Prettyricky]

Actually, I think the inherent problem most have here is that he sort of IS. Not the MCU, but certainly he is for the Guardians. That franchise I would argue has the largest director fingerprint of any MCU franchise (except maybe Whedon's Avengers films...which like Gunn he also wrote).

I guess the ultimate test will come in 2020 or 2021 when the 3rd hits theaters. My angle is gunns writing amd vision isnt exqctly unique seeing as taika just did it with thor ragnarok. Weve had 3 films now with these characters setup in terms of look and comedy and chemistry, is it really crazy to say another director couldnt come and make it work smoothly?