Jean and Storm

[Lightning Strykez!]

Yup.

Even if Scott showed up and was moving towards Jean...while trying to get her to come back...he would have been toast too...

Exactly DOD...exactly.

If a mentally deranged, schizophrenic relative killed off your entire family, and then pointed the loaded gun at you, would you stick around and try to reason with him? Would you allow your only surviving sibling to confront him knowing that only death would follow?

Some of the arguments I see on this board (i.e. Rogue "wussing" out by taking the cure, Storm cutting Jean off, etc.,) seem so off-balance and unrealistic to me. These characters are reacting the same way any of us would given their sensitive circumstances.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Besides that, I don't think I want to see a deformed Scott Summers ... eeh.. too graphic. -shuts his eyes- It would seem kinda off. aah. great. I've got a scary image of Scott's skin coming off...and...aah... get it out of my head.

 

[Inner City Blue]

I think a lot of these critiques are just motivated by hate for the actors because the real problem lies with the writing. And if an actor did call attention to poor writing, these same people would whine about that actor having a big head. Many of you need to grow up, the problem with this movie does not lie with the actors and can really be lumped on the director and writers. That being said, I think Lightning Strikez! makes a good point, it's not Jean anymore, it's Phoenix so you have to come to terms with Jean being gone. It's the same body, but a different person, Jean is still in Alkali Lake.

 

[the a1ant]

Storm also wasn't there to see Jean struggling with the Phoenix, and crying about Scott to Wolverine. All Storm knows is that Jean killed Scott and the Professor, and has joined Magneto...so that's enough reason to be royally pi$$ed.

 

[Red Mask]

yep it would have been a great fight but then again what if they had phoenix ash storm? best to not kill anymore people! mortality rate is too high already

She still could have thrown a bolt at her. Anything to assert her aggressive stance.

 

[OmniGamer]

Jean is not gone...it was Jean who first appeared to Scott, it was Jean who conversed with Logan in the med-lab(mentioning how they first met, making her blush, etc)...in fact the med-lab scene has the most expressed manifestation of Jean/Phoenix reverting back and forth...and it was Jean who allowed Logan to get close enough for him to stab her, hence her smile at the end.

Not for nothing, but Storm seemed very prone to extreme points of view in this movie...completely convinced that a "cure" could never be useful(not every mutation is benign...not only that, using the cure was what allowed them to stop Magneto), then completely convinced that the school should be shut down, only to completely change her mind and says it will stay open. It seems in an effort to give Storm more of a role, they just amplified her convinction on whichever stance she'd take to the nth degree.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Jean is not gone...it was Jean who first appeared to Scott, it was Jean who conversed with Logan in the med-lab(mentioning how they first met, making her blush, etc)...in fact the med-lab scene has the most expressed manifestation of Jean/Phoenix reverting back and forth...and it was Jean who allowed Logan to get close enough for him to stab her, hence her smile at the end.

I agree and I saw that.

 

[crappymovie]

Jean is not gone...it was Jean who first appeared to Scott, it was Jean who conversed with Logan in the med-lab(mentioning how they first met, making her blush, etc)...in fact the med-lab scene has the most expressed manifestation of Jean/Phoenix reverting back and forth...and it was Jean who allowed Logan to get close enough for him to stab her, hence her smile at the end.

Not for nothing, but Storm seemed very prone to extreme points of view in this movie...completely convinced that a "cure" could never be useful(not every mutation is benign...not only that, using the cure was what allowed them to stop Magneto), then completely convinced that the school should be shut down, only to completely change her mind and says it will stay open. It seems in an effort to give Storm more of a role, they just amplified her convinction on whichever stance she'd take to the nth degree.

I tried to mention this, but was directed to the Storm forum. But it trying to keep in relevant, I think the Storm and Jean dynamic could have been done better by having Storm show SOME compassion...yes her mentor and distant team member had died, but she's still her friend. The Storm of the comics would have said "Jean is my friend, but she's a changed woman. We need to fight her, for her sake." Instead, this Storm was "That b****. She killed my mentor, that guy with the glasses, and now took Logan away (notice the loathing when she said "You love her.") It's time to pay." A little harsh and extreme?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Jean is not gone...it was Jean who first appeared to Scott, it was Jean who conversed with Logan in the med-lab(mentioning how they first met, making her blush, etc)...in fact the med-lab scene has the most expressed manifestation of Jean/Phoenix reverting back and forth...and it was Jean who allowed Logan to get close enough for him to stab her, hence her smile at the end.

Callisto said it best: The chick was completely unstable.

And even if there was a glimmer of hope inside her still, the only man powerful enough to harness it was already dead. Her lover--the one who could appeal to her common sense through the love they shared--was also dead.

Now, you tell me--if these influential men failed, what the hell is Storm going to do with Jean?

Not for nothing, but Storm seemed very prone to extreme points of view in this movie...completely convinced that a "cure" could never be useful(not every mutation is benign...not only that, using the cure was what allowed them to stop Magneto), then completely convinced that the school should be shut down, only to completely change her mind and says it will stay open. It seems in an effort to give Storm more of a role, they just amplified her convinction on whichever stance she'd take to the nth degree.

I disagree. Storm had her own opinion. Angel--who resisted the cure--had his. Rogue accepted it, based on her views. When you think about the Yes and No results for the above, all of their views were pretty extreme, one way or another.

 

[OmniGamer]

It wasn't just an opionion though, it was condemnation...she said "what kind of coward...". Isn't that pretty extreme? If someone's power somehow drained the lifeforce of anyone within a 100ft radius, would it be cowardice for that person to want the cure? I don't think Rogue felt that everyone should take the cure, and I don't think Angel felt that no one should take the cure...but Storm very clearly expressed that she thought NO ONE should take the cure.

 

[crappymovie]

It wasn't just an opionion though, it was condemnation...she said "what kind of coward...". Isn't that pretty extreme? If someone's power somehow drained the lifeforce of anyone within a 100ft radius, would it be cowardice for that person to want the cure? I don't think Rogue felt that everyone should take the cure, and I don't think Angel felt that no one should take the cure...but Storm very clearly expressed that she thought NO ONE should take the cure.

haha agreed, and it was comical because it was such a stark contrast to X2. Although she was a little weaker in X2, I felt like she was someone to respect, the way she spoke to Nightcrawler seemed like someone who had an opinion, and tried to CONVINCE others to see her side. In this film,she basically said "FOLLOW ME." I understand why they took out the "Understand?" after the speech about "Nothing's wrong with us.." in the theatrical version, because it seemed like she was about to slap anyone who "didn't understand" her. Is that Storm?

 

[weatherwitch]

It wasn't just an opionion though, it was condemnation...she said "what kind of coward...". Isn't that pretty extreme? If someone's power somehow drained the lifeforce of anyone within a 100ft radius, would it be cowardice for that person to want the cure? I don't think Rogue felt that everyone should take the cure, and I don't think Angel felt that no one should take the cure...but Storm very clearly expressed that she thought NO ONE should take the cure.

And I think people are overthinking it. It's a movie. In regards to that movie and her emotions regarding the cure, I believe that true to the comic book version of Storm that her feelings on the matter are "convictions", and yes, could probably be described as extreme opinions, as all convictions are, but that is very true to comic Storm. When she believes in something she is strong and passionate about it. Right or wrong is a matter of another person's opinions, but again, it's a matter of character and I felt that she took the "cure" as a direct insult to all mutants. If someone said they could cure people of "gayness" I'm sure a few people would vehemently oppose that, even though there would be some people that would ponder that cure (ala Rogue). There are a lot of real world analogies that could be conjured, but again, that would be overthinking it. it's a movie. Just enjoy it for what it is.

 

[green1074]

Quick question, Phoenix is a level 5 mutant, what is Storm?

 

[Inner City Blue]

The reason why they made them take extreme positions in this movie was to allow for characters to have dialogue, so it seems as if they're discussing important issues. At least that is the way I saw it because the problem is not the character but the script, so I really don't understand why people keep complaining about what the character did. You already know what the problem is, the writing. Talk about that, stop saying the character is stupid.

 

[crappymovie]

Quick question, Phoenix is a level 5 mutant, what is Storm?

Probably level 3.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

It wasn't just an opionion though, it was condemnation...she said "what kind of coward...". Isn't that pretty extreme? If someone's power somehow drained the lifeforce of anyone within a 100ft radius, would it be cowardice for that person to want the cure? I don't think Rogue felt that everyone should take the cure, and I don't think Angel felt that no one should take the cure...but Storm very clearly expressed that she thought NO ONE should take the cure.

Please consider the following:

I'm African-American (with an Egyptian background). And extremely proud of my heritage.

If I met a black person who was disgusted with their skin color and wanted to change it because they were *tired* of dealing with bigotry, chances are I'd think they were a coward too. Why? Because of my personal experiences and struggle in overcoming that problem--realizing it takes a backbone to endure hatred in this world. Believe it or not, but there are some idiots who think that non-white people are a "disease" and need curing--even obliteration. So to be frank, I'd consider any African-American person who was willing to give up their uniqueness to appease such shortsighted, evil, flawed thinking, to be a sell-out and coward.

Absolutely.

Now, look at it from Storm's standpoint--as a proud mutant. The principles are not far off in application when you think about it.

 

[OmniGamer]

I did enjoy the movie, and I don't think it's overthinking to point out Storm's rigid point of view. I'm not getting into the "why"s of why she feels what she feels...i'm not trying to Dr. Phil her...i'm just stating that she condemned anyone who thought about taking the cure to being a coward.

*Edit*
Lightning-Strikez, i'm a gay black male...i know a thing or two about biggotry...I was infuriated with the bible-thumping that went on during the election year here in the US and the gay-marriage debate(more like misdirection to sway voters from the real issues, but I digress).

Now that said, while there are parallels, gay/black is not quite the same as being a mutant. For instance, I don't know anyone who's gayness or blackness is a threat to the lives of themselves or others...unlike say the mutant ability to affect probability fields, or syphon the thoughts of others reducing them to a comatosed state. Some mutations cause physical deformaties which may not be just cosmetic, but actually harmful to the person(think of someone like Marrow from the comics, whose bones were always constantly shifting around and causing great pain, but not everyone is as hard-as-nails as Marrow and might not be able to cope with the constant pain). There are myriad examples of how ones mutation might cause them to want the cure and I don't think it's fair to automatically equate that to cowardice.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Quick question, Phoenix is a level 5 mutant, what is Storm?

She's a level 4.

 

[crappymovie]

True, but does forcing your opinion upon people seem like a good idea? "You don't need the cure. UNDERSTAND?" She seemed a bit too...radical for an X-Men.

That's my problem with Storm in the films (BAD WRITING.) She was "passionate" about everything, to the point where it was comical.
-"Is there a cure?" "NO! We don't need the cure."
-"I'm going to find Jean." "If you're going to be with us, then BE WITH US."
-"What the hell was that?"

She just seemed constantly...agitated. Nothing about being passionate.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I did enjoy the movie, and I don't think it's overthinking to point out Storm's rigid point of view. I'm not getting into the "why"s of why she feels what she feels...i'm not trying to Dr. Phil her...i'm just stating that she condemned anyone who thought about taking the cure to being a coward.

But you have to be "Dr. Phil'ing" her if you're asking if we thought she was too rigid or cold. There are definite reasons behind her statements and reactions...when you consider these things, I think one would come to the realization that her personal opinion was definitely justified.

 

[weatherwitch]

I did enjoy the movie, and I don't think it's overthinking to point out Storm's rigid point of view. I'm not getting into the "why"s of why she feels what she feels...i'm not trying to Dr. Phil her...i'm just stating that she condemned anyone who thought about taking the cure to being a coward.

You don't want to get into the "whys" of how she feels, yet you want to condemn her for her condemnation? Ooookay. I don't recall her saying "Rogue, you take this cure, you're a piece of crap and never come back". Her reaction was instinctive and true to character. You have to acknowledge the whys of the reaction to understand it. You can't put a statement out there that she was extreme and wrong without acknowledging the whys. Which was why I said it was overthinking.

Anyway, i'm off to bed. G'night LS. Night all.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

You don't want to get into the "whys" of how she feels, yet you want to condemn her for her condemnation? Ooookay. I don't recall her saying "Rogue, you take this cure, you're a piece of crap and never come back". Her reaction was instinctive and true to character. You have to acknowledge the whys of the reaction to understand it. You can't put a statement out there that she was extreme and wrong without acknowledging the whys. Which was why I said it was overthinking.

Anyway, i'm off to bed. G'night LS. Night all.

Goodnight Weather Witch.

 

[green1074]

She's a level 4.

Wow, ..and because I'm inquisitive - what's Magneto/Xavier/Wolverine?

I wish she would act like the mutant she is more often, instead of keeping it all controlled. I'm still waiting for a point in the movie where she just breaks down and unleashes hell on whoever is causing trouble.

 

[stryfe]

She's a level 4.

How do you know this?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Wow, ..and because I'm inquisitive - what's Magneto/Xavier/Wolverine?

Magneto and Xavier are Level 4's as well. Logan is likely somewhere between a 2 or 3...when you think about it, he really only possesses regenerative qualities and he can only apply those energies to himself.

How do you know this?

Because Callisto pointed out that of all the mutants gathered in that meeting, only Mags and Pyro were level 4's. Notice that both of them deal in elemental kinetics, namely magnetism and fire/heat. Storm has mastered the earth's elemental kinetics as well--she fits in the same class. And as X2's "Dogfight/Jet chase" scene demonstrates, she clearly has the power to even multi-task while bringing destruction from the skies simitaneously. That act had even fellow Level 4 mutant Pyro in awe.

Lightning-Strikez, i'm a gay black male...i know a thing or two about biggotry...I was infuriated with the bible-thumping that went on during the election year here in the US and the gay-marriage debate(more like misdirection to sway voters from the real issues, but I digress).

Now that said, while there are parallels, gay/black is not quite the same as being a mutant. For instance, I don't know anyone who's gayness or blackness is a threat to the lives of themselves or others...unlike say the mutant ability to affect probability fields, or syphon the thoughts of others reducing them to a comatosed state. Some mutations cause physical deformaties which may not be just cosmetic, but actually harmful to the person(think of someone like Marrow from the comics, whose bones were always constantly shifting around and causing great pain, but not everyone is as hard-as-nails as Marrow and might not be able to cope with the constant pain). There are myriad examples of how ones mutation might cause them to want the cure and I don't think it's fair to automatically equate that to cowardice.

Black and gay eh?

Then what I'm saying should carry relevance with you considering that both Stan Lee and Chris Claremont (among many others) have always stated that X-Men was meant to be the comical metaphor for blacks, jews, gays and any other oppressed group that faces bigotry.

And while Rogue's gift may be a danger to others, so is Storm's. The latter was telling her that she was not a "disease" that needed treatment.

In other words, Storm was empowering one of her students...and teaching them a lesson about bigotry and racism...except instead of it being black vs. white, or gay vs. straight, it's homo sapiens vs. homo superiors.

The principles are the same.