Jean and Storm

[OmniGamer]

I don't have to get into the whys because it's not important to what i'm saying, she said it herself, "What kind of coward...". All i've said was that is a pretty extreme(or unfair, or jump-to-conclusiony) statement. How that can be denied I don't know. Beast even corrected her on the spot by jokingly talking about hair shedding on the couch, which was a way of pointing out to Storm that her statement lacked perspective, that very practical reasons for wanting the cure do exist and have nothing to do with masking ones self or cowardice.

 

[Sketchee]

Jean was dead as far as Storm was concerned. THe person who killed Scott and Xavier was a danger to everyone and wasn't the Jean that Storm knew.

In the last movie they went on the mission to find Nightcrawler together. They were friends. But if you found out your friend (who you thought was dead) turned into a killer, you might not be so forgiving.

 

[Inner City Blue]

I think it was an extreme view placed there justso they could have the conversation, it would make the scene shorter than everyone speaking intelligently on a nuanced subject.

 

[bes628]

you are reaching for stuff when u get to this point in complaining who gives a ***** if somebody talked to somebody.

 

[Xfanfan]

I want to add to the whole Jean/Storm debate that Storm had shown emotion in X2 when she saw Jean sacrificed herself for the team. What people are forgetting is that Professor X told her that she would take over the school after his death and since she was now in charge she was acting like a mother who is concerned for her children. The school was now under her responsibility and I am sure she was also thinking of how Jean could be a danger to the school also. Her reaction is that of any leader that has a responsibility to make sure those that are under her care are safe.

Xfanfan

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I think it was an extreme view placed there justso they could have the conversation, it would make the scene shorter than everyone speaking intelligently on a nuanced subject.

Good point...and totally plausible. Without opposing viewpoints there is no conflict.

And with no conflict you have no plot.

 

[Sketchee]

Lightning-Strikez, i'm a gay black male...i know a thing or two about biggotry...I was infuriated with the bible-thumping that went on during the election year here in the US and the gay-marriage debate(more like misdirection to sway voters from the real issues, but I digress).

Now that said, while there are parallels, gay/black is not quite the same as being a mutant. For instance, I don't know anyone who's gayness or blackness is a threat to the lives of themselves or others...unlike say the mutant ability to affect probability fields, or syphon the thoughts of others reducing them to a comatosed state. Some mutations cause physical deformaties which may not be just cosmetic, but actually harmful to the person(think of someone like Marrow from the comics, whose bones were always constantly shifting around and causing great pain, but not everyone is as hard-as-nails as Marrow and might not be able to cope with the constant pain). There are myriad examples of how ones mutation might cause them to want the cure and I don't think it's fair to automatically equate that to cowardice.

A lot of people feel that being gay is a danger to society. If it's because they feel "gay morals" challenge their way of life or blame us for aids.

While I can understand where your coming from, I can also say as a gay male myself that not every gay or black man will agree with you. I can see how it could be perceived as cowardice. Just as not every mutant agreed with Storm. Beast didn't find what she said to be fair either. But was Storm's point of view something that a real person might have in her circumstance? I think so.

 

[OmniGamer]

The principles are the same.

To a point...the principles might be the same...to a point...but not so the practical manifestation of one's gayness compared to one's mutancy. One can't damage themselves or others simply by being gay, or black, or by being a "little person", etc...being those things does NOT present a practical threat to the well being of ones self or others the same way someone who emits illness-causing spores simply by existing for instance. There was an issue of Uncanny X-Men, I think in Chuck Austin's run, where a mutant child kept spontaneously "exploding", which took a deadly toll on his physical body, and eventually one of the explosions killed him.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

One can't damage themselves or others simply by being gay, or black, or by being a "little person", etc...being does things does NOT present a pratical threat to the well being of ones self or others the same way someone who emits illness-causing spores simply by existing for instance.

But that's your opinion. Others vary greatly from yours.

For example, some believe that homosexual activity is the reason we have AIDS, and that it will be the death of the human race. Other bigots feel that interracial relationships are "deluting" the racial "purity" of the white culture. Do you see my point?

Bigots/Racists are scared of anything different from their own comfort zone. And they want those differences segregated or "cured" by elimination. Much the same is desired for mutants in the X-Men saga.

 

[OmniGamer]

But that's your opinion. Others vary greatly from yours.

For example, some believe that homosexual activity is the reason we have AIDS, and that it will be the death of the human race. Other bigots feel that interracial relationships are "deluting" the racial "purity" of the white culture. Do you see my point?

Bigots/Racists are scared of anything different from their own comfort zone. And they want those differences segregated or "cured" by elimination. Much the same is desired for mutants in the X-Men saga.

I'm not talking about what others(humans) think of mutants...i'm largely talking about the INTERNAL conflict, which, given that the cure was a voluntary option for non-criminal mutants, is what is at play here.

Some people might THINK all gay people cause aids, but the FACT remains I can't give you aids simply by being gay...Some people might THINK all black people are thugs, but I can't rob you simply by being black...do you see what i'm saying?

This reminds me of some discussion regarding Brokeback Mountain...some thought that it was an interchangeable story, that it could be a man and a woman from say, different ethnic groups, or whatever "forbidden love", but that's not really the case because a large part of the struggle was not just EXTERNAL(societial opionions and conventions), but INTERNAL(self-loathing, denial, etc).

This is why i said there are parallels, but it's NOT EXACTLY THE SAME.

 

[WritersBlock89]

Well, if you all remember, when Storm said her cowardice line, in the seven minute trailer she apologized. They removed it from the movie.

Anyways, if your friend killed your dad, how would you feel?

 

[phoenixstorm]

Thats right she did apologize to hank in the trailer!

I saw it again tonight with friends.

Why didn't Logan use the cure on Jean instead of stabbing her to death?

Really it was a bad ending. Jean should have killed herself. Having Logan do it took away from Jean's strength of character and just made her another used and abused woman. Sure she had all that power but she couldn't control it. She was used by Magneto and abused by Xavier.

In the end they couldn't even give her the will power to kill herself like in the comic. No they had to have wolverine do it to give him his moment.

His healing factor could not have coped with that punishment. She could have held him in place. Thrown him away. Whatever.

It should have been scott there to talk sense into jean.

They should have gotten chris clairemont to write this movie.

 

[phoenixstorm]

I'm not talking about what others(humans) think of mutants...i'm largely talking about the INTERNAL conflict, which, given that the cure was a voluntary option for non-criminal mutants, is what is at play here.

Some people might THINK all gay people cause aids, but the FACT remains I can't give you aids simply by being gay...Some people might THINK all black people are thugs, but I can't rob you simply by being black...do you see what i'm saying?

This reminds me of some discussion regarding Brokeback Mountain...some thought that it was an interchangeable story, that it could be a man and a woman from say, different ethnic groups, or whatever "forbidden love", but that's not really the case because a large part of the struggle was not just EXTERNAL(societial opionions and conventions), but INTERNAL(self-loathing, denial, etc).

This is why i said there are parallels, but it's NOT EXACTLY THE SAME.

So are you saying people of different racial backgrounds don't experience Internal self loathing and denial? They do.

I just want to add that storm reacted instintively and in the heat of the moment and she also apologized to Hank in the clip. So basically she realized her mistake and that there are allowances for some people who might want to take the cure.

So i guess this whole point about her extreme views is moot.

She also never said she wanted the school to close. Hank said that. Storm was thining about the implications of that statement when Angel walked in.

 

[obeastdyke]

Yeah I was hoping for a crazy moment from Storm towards Jean. I think Storm should have gone crazy pissed and let it all out and shown dark phoenix and everyone else how truly pissed she was. She should have blown everyone away and taught Magneto a lesson as well.

 

[sirius14sho]

Good point to te starter of this thread. I wish they would have had Storm being Telepathically contated/tormented by Jean too. They made Jean out to be some horny crazy woman. They could have at least had Storm alone with her in the infirmary where the at least hint at the friendship they had, and how Storm missed her too.

 

[god/devil]

Thanks sirius14sho. People keep saying that oh she was angry at Jean for killing everyone or she was thinking about the school etc but in the end if someone killed our mentor/father you would want to exact a little revenge