Comics Jean and the Phoenix Force

[Valechan]

The only time Storm killed was in self-defense when she was a child. She is not a murderer.

 

[Intheknow101]

The only time Storm killed was in self-defense when she was a child. She is not a murderer.

All the X-Men have killed. Like I said everytime Storm uses her powers she is indirectly killing something. This was shown in 77 or 78 when whole herds of living creatures were killed because she summoned rain from that area so there was no rain for them. In order to repair that she'd have to summon rain from elsewhere, so that place is in turn deprived of it's natural weather.

She did rip out Marrow's heart with no prior knowledge that Sarah had 2.

And I'm sure there are other instances where she has killed. Oh wait, one recent one was when her and all the X-Men were killing all those mutated animals in Africa. I remember I read that and was like WTF, I can't believe the X-Men are just wiping them out with no regards whatsoever.

 

[Valechan]

Black Panther shouldn't even be taking into account...

Jsut because YOU Think she indirectly killed people doesn't mean she did, show me where those people died and then i'll shut up, until then you cannot say she is a murderer. And FYI, she does comprehend that using her powers alter the weather, it was said on more than one issue, and she has also hinted that after battles she heals whatever damage she might caused.

Marrow, as we know, survived the encounter.

 

[Chasers1984(2)]

Black Panther shouldn't even be taking into account...

You can't refuse to take things into account that contradict your point. You can acknowledge them and try to debase them; but simply ignoring doesn't work.

Marrow, as we know, survived the encounter.

Yes she did. But, as was pointed out, Storm wasn't expecting her to. So it's alright that Storm wanted to kill her. And, if not for some freak accident, would have succeeded? Sounds a bit unfair to me.

 

[Intheknow101]

Black Panther shouldn't even be taking into account...

Jsut because YOU Think she indirectly killed people doesn't mean she did, show me where those people died and then i'll shut up, until then you cannot say she is a murderer. And FYI, she does comprehend that using her powers alter the weather, it was said on more than one issue, and she has also hinted that after battles she heals whatever damage she might caused.

Marrow, as we know, survived the encounter.

How exactly does she heal the damage she caused? She thinks she is healing it by bringing in rain from another area to fill the weather patterns she just used, but then she'd be in the same position again as she is then depriving that new area of it's natural weather patterns. She wouldn't have to move around rain if she could spontaneously create her own. Unless she could create her own weather patterns, she'd be constantly moving and removing weather to make it right because she has to take it from somewhere. But then if she could, she wouldn't need to do any healing in the first place. To think the woman callously uses her powers to water her plants.

And like I said those Black Panther/X-Men issues had Storm and the rest of the X-Men basically wiping out all those mutants.

As for Marrow, is it any better that Storm attempted to murder her, but did not succeed?

 

[HandOfFate]

Please, the death of one to save many Vs the death of billions to save nobody.

No comparison.

 

[HandOfFate]

Please, the death of one to save many Vs the death of billions to save nobody.

No comparison.

 

[BrianWilly]

The Silver Surfer is also a murderer of worlds many times over. He chose to serve Galactus willingly and led him to various populated planets until he finally rebelled. Nowadays, he's considered a hero.

And what about the Hulk? It was revealed that, unsurprisingly, his rampages throughout the country led to the deaths of many, many people. He's still a Marvel superhero with his own fanbase.

The fact that Jean must serve a different, higher calling than her friends and allies is what makes her character and her situation that much more unique and interesting. Yes, the Phoenix is the savior of the universe. But her presence could also mean great tragedy as well. Not being beholden to earthly morals, Jean might repair the entire universe again or she could exterminate an entire species for being a genetic dead end. Her friends both love her and fear the hell out of her. The Shi'ar and other alien species hate the Phoenix for what she's done and what she represents, dubbing her the Great Destroyer on the level of Galactus, while ironically they also laud her as the guardian of the M'Kraan Crystal and the savior of timelines.

All that storytelling potential makes her far from a bland character, at the very least, giving her far more depth and pathos than most characters could ever dream about.

 

[Intheknow101]

Please, the death of one to save many Vs the death of billions to save nobody.

No comparison.

And if Jean didn't become Phoenix and save the universe and everything in it, there wouldn't even have been a planet D'Bari.

And you act like she killed the D'bari in coldblood. She didn't even do it directly, but it was a side effect of her powers making the sun go supernova just like how Storm's powers have an adverse effect on the life dependent on the weather. While Storm's chain reaction is planetary at most, Jean's is more cosmic. But essentially the same deal.

If we were to weigh the good and the bad Jean has done, she's done way more good so your point is moot. Storm may have done less bad, but Jean's done way more good.

 

[Intheknow101]

Please, the death of one to save many Vs the death of billions to save nobody.

No comparison.

And if Jean didn't become Phoenix and save the universe and everything in it, there wouldn't even have been a planet D'Bari.

And you act like she killed the D'bari in coldblood. She didn't even do it directly, but it was a side effect of her powers making the sun go supernova just like how Storm's powers have an adverse effect on the life dependent on the weather. While Storm's chain reaction is planetary at most, Jean's is more cosmic. But essentially the same deal.

If we were to weigh the good and the bad Jean has done, she's done way more good so your point is moot. Storm may have done less bad, but Jean's done way more good.

 

[Valechan]

Wanting to kill means not kill.

And killing monsters, like in those BP issues, doesn't count... like Havok said in Golgotha, sometimes they have draw a line on what can they kill and what can't they.

 

[HandOfFate]

How exactly does she heal the damage she caused? She thinks she is healing it by bringing in rain from another area to fill the weather patterns she just used, but then she'd be in the same position again as she is then depriving that new area of it's natural weather patterns. She wouldn't have to move around rain if she could spontaneously create her own. Unless she could create her own weather patterns, she'd be constantly moving and removing weather to make it right because she has to take it from somewhere. But then if she could, she wouldn't need to do any healing in the first place. To think the woman callously uses her powers to water her plants.

Its called the Water Cycle, look it up good stuff

 

[Intheknow101]

Wanting to kill means not kill.

And killing monsters, like in those BP issues, doesn't count... like Havok said in Golgotha, sometimes they have draw a line on what can they kill and what can't they.

I'd say ripping out someone's heart when you don't know they have a second means more than an intention to harm. She did it, and she thought she killed Sarah.

Easy to call the mutates in the BlackPanther/X-Men crossover just monsters. I wonder if that is how Storm rationalized murdering them?

 

[Valechan]

They weren't mutates, they were animals turned into monsters, not humans... and I don't think Ororo killed any of them, you just say she did... I gotta re-read that.

 

[BrianWilly]

Please, the death of one to save many Vs the death of billions to save nobody.

No comparison.

Yeah well, Jean was driven clinically insane by the manipulations of a skilled telepath. How come Storm gets extenuating circumstances when doesn't?

Morever, she implemented the death penalty on herself for what she did...hell, she wasn't even fully responsible for it, and still she killed herself to stop it from happening again. The death penalty being the most severe sort of punishment that our justice system legally implements, what else should she do, exactly, to make up for that crime? She even took responsibility after her death to make sure that the D'bari gets their eternal afterlife paradise.

 

[Intheknow101]

Its called the Water Cycle, look it up good stuff

Like I said the water she brings to replace the energy she just used has to come from somewhere. She's unnaturally moving it. Water cycle takes time. She's messing with the balance of things and that has consequences. If it was a self correcting issue, we wouldn't have seen what happened to the death of the herds of animals.

Sebita, those animals had sentience. The gorillas were able to talk. And even if they weren't animals are living, breathing, thinking creatures as well.

About Jean, she was insane at the time so she'd be found not guilty by reason of insanity. Besides she's died for her sins, and helped build the afterlife for those D'Bari.

 

[HandOfFate]

If we were to weigh the good and the bad Jean has done, she's done way more good so your point is moot. Storm may have done less bad, but Jean's done way more good.

IIRC, Jean couldn't have save anything without Storm/Corsair giving up some of their life force to aid the Phoenix Force

 

[Valechan]

The crocodiles she fought had no sentience at all. The gorillas did because they were Red Ghost's gorillas, which always had sentience. They are not the same.

And whenever have we seen this herds of animals dead because of Ororo? It happened in her youth, but there is no indication it happens the same since she became and X-Man.

 

[Intheknow101]

IIRC, Jean couldn't have save anything without Storm/Corsair giving up some of their life force to aid the Phoenix Force

Now we're arguing semantics. Regardless of how she did it and she used what was available to her to do so. None of the other people present or anyone else could have healed the intricate energy matrices of the crystal and the crystal itself.

And she did it again, when she regrew a new future to replace the universe she had just cut away and allowed it to flourish.

It's part of her phoenix work to heal and save the universe constantly.

 

[Valechan]

What alternate earths Jean do doesn't count (HCT = Earth 15104 = alternate)

 

[javon]

Storms powers go beyond controlling the weather. So you would have to think twice if your saying that she has limits with the weather.(but lets not make this into a strom debate like it already is)

 

[Intheknow101]

What alternate earths Jean do doesn't count (HCT = Earth 15104 = alternate)

Sigh. We've been through this Sebita. Current Jean even has memories of doing it. And if it was really an alternate earth, then then reality that all the books are taking place in would be an alternate reality.

Javon, Storm manipulates weather patterns to conjure weather phenomena.

 

[javon]

Javon, Storm manipulates weather patterns to conjure weather phenomena.

Yeah, but that not her only power.

 

[Intheknow101]

Yeah, but that not her only power.

Yes it is.

 

[javon]

Yes it is.

So gathering the energy of millions of suns, planets, and stars..AND ripping apart the ground And controlling ocean currents is weather controlling how?