Jeffrey Wright IS Commissioner Gordon

[LvtLeeTDK]

While I'd agree Gordon being white isn't crucial to his character, nevertheless, he has been a white guy.

I'm sorry but Gordon does not need to be white. I mean there's nothing about the guy's history that indicates he must be white. So yeah.

 

[Invader Joker]

I haven't been feeling most of the cast, except for Paul Dano. I can't even see Pattinson yet. That's not to say I'm against their casting or anything, it's just too early for me to see what Matt Reeves is doing, cause it's just not lining up for me. I'm in this hardcore "wait and see" mode for most of the cast, cause I just don't see it.

This may change the second we see pics with the kind of aesthetic Matt Reeves is going for. So who knows? But as it stands right now, aside from Paul Dano, I'm just not seeing/feeling it yet.

I can kinda understand why you'd feel that way. Pattinson as Batman is a concept that admittedly does require a bit of imagination since we have zero idea as to what that'll ook like opposed to something like Armie Hammwr. The reason I've supported the idea and why I'm excited about it is mostly because of his insane range and chamaleonic nature which I think will allow him to slip into the role provided he gets in shape and gets a good look and nails the voices; however it's admittedly difficult to imagine what that'd look and sound like at the end of the day.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I'm sorry but Gordon does not need to be white. I mean there's nothing about the guy's history that indicates he must be white. So yeah.

So yeah, please see my previous comment.

 

[fan4stic]

D...do you really not know basic history?

He wouldn't only be white. He can now be more than simply white. There are no legal barriers any more

And Thor is drawn beardless. Is Hemsworth therefore miscast?

Harvey Dent is drawn with dark hair. Was blonde Eckhart miscast?

You can't use the way a character is drawn as a crutch to casting flesh and blood actor.

Plus, there's nothing about him that's inherently white. He is a racially, sexually, gender neutral character. A beaten down, cynical police captain/commissioner can be played by people of any race. He can even be a chick.

Why does that mean the character wouldn't be white now?

Same question as above.

Hemsworth can shave his beard. For me something like that is a case by case basis. For instance, I think Jim, irregardless of race, a mustache is a more specific look for the character. I don't think that for Thor as clean shaven. For an active Batman I'd prefer no full beard. Etc.

Similar to hair color, case by case basis, though he could dye his hair. Despite me being more accepting of changes to Selina's hair color being blonde, I prefer dark hair. Maybe similar to Harvey, but it's not that prominent for me, though maybe I'd prefer dark hair. My preference for Bruce is dark hair. I wasn't into Lois being a red head. Etc.

What basis should I use? Maybe Adam Driver could give a solid performance as Batman. Why should that mean I should cast him or want him cast, if I don't prefer his look for the role? Similar to Pattinson? Dano? Kravitz? Eisenberg?

I don't see why his cultural connections or lacktherof means changing the race or gender of the character.

About why Bruce should be white: he’s old money. A huge point of his character is that his parents (and he) represent the 1 percent of white rich folk who are “at the top of the food chain” so to speak. And Bruce comes directly from that lineage. Except he’s the one who chooses to fight for the 99 percent behind closed doors. Even when people believe he’s just a filthy rich white dude with power.

Jim Gordon on the other hand doesn’t need to be anything but a good cop who eventually becomes commissioner. Warmth and determination is what matters. The colour of his skin has no effect on the story or his character or the people around him. Harvey Dent is the same. Doesn’t matter if he’s played by Billy Dee Williams, Jamie Foxx, Tommy Lee Jones, Matthew McConaughey, John David Washington or Aaron Eckhart.

Who says a black family can't have older money, particularly in a fictional universe?

I don't particularly agree about warmth and determination being what matters. But like I said before, I don't think it means a race change is a go to. Dent, I can see a maybe, depending on the actor.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Who says a black family can't have older money, particularly in a fictional universe?.

This is something I've thought about when it comes to the possibility of a black Batman. Would Batman being black be incidental to the main story, or would it be the main point? Because while you could do color blind casting and cast a non white Batman, and never have his race come up, it seems to me that would be a missed opportunity to do a unique take on the character.

 

[shauner111]

It goes against the character because Bruce should be seen as a privileged white dude who’s just like the rest of them. But in secret he’s the exact opposite.

 

[Eddie Dean]

A white dude is playing Batman, so we can table this discussion until the next reboot.

 

[Schlosser85]

I roll my eyes at the idea of taking historically white characters and making them a minority just to hit some kind of representation quota, but I don't care if Jeffrey Wright plays Gordon.

IMO it changes things about the backstories and personas of characters like Bruce Wayne or James Bond if they're black, just as it changes things about Shaft's character if he's white.

But there's literally nothing about Gordon's character that changes whether he's played by Gary Oldman, J.K. Simmons, or Jeffrey Wright.

Except, while I don't think they should make a ta-do out of the race change---just let Wright be Gordon, unremarked upon---it could give an interesting subtext, even if only subconsciously, to Gordon being even more of an outsider on the police force in some ways.

 

[shauner111]

I agree and it may even strengthen Gordon’s character if anything. I love the Shaft comparison. Some characters need to stay the way they are because it then changes them so much, that you may as well call them something else. Bruce Wayne is one of those characters. Jim Gordon is not. Selina Kyle is not. Harvey Dent is not.

 

[fan4stic]

It goes against the character because Bruce should be seen as a privileged white dude who’s just like the rest of them. But in secret he’s the exact opposite.

I don't remember seeing Bruce being white as an important part of the character in the shows or movies I've seen.

 

[Schlosser85]

I don't remember seeing Bruce being white as an important part of the character in the shows or movies I've seen.

If the Waynes are supposed to be long-established old-money basically American aristocracy back to the 1800s, it strains credibility they'd be anything other than white.

And yes, as shauner said, Bruce should be basically the epitome of "privileged 1% white dude".....who secretly is something no one expects of him.

 

[fan4stic]

If the Waynes are supposed to be long-established old-money basically American aristocracy back to the 1800s, it strains credibility they'd be anything other than white.

And yes, as shauner said, Bruce should be basically the epitome of "privileged 1% white dude".....who secretly is something no one expects of him.

Who says a black family can't have older money, particularly in a fictional universe?

 

[Schlosser85]

There's just a whole cultural/social subtext that it affects if Bruce Wayne is black, IMO. It makes him look like a little more of an outsider among the 1%, when he should be the walking embodiment of it, in public.

 

[terry78]

Most of his rogues gallery could be race lifted and it wouldn't matter. Except for maybe Penguin.

 

[fan4stic]

There's just a whole cultural/social subtext that it affects if Bruce Wayne is black, IMO. It makes him look like a little more of an outsider among the 1%, when he should be the walking embodiment of it, in public.

I don't think that's a reason he has to be. Considering to you it's mostly subtext and I think something not really presented in the adaptions I've seen, I think it's possible it could play more as an inference for some.

 

[Boy Scout]

The point is that you can make a credible argument beyond personal preference as to why Bruce Wayne should be white. The same isn’t true for characters like Gordon.

 

[Schlosser85]

The point is that you can make a credible argument beyond personal preference as to why Bruce Wayne should be white. The same isn’t true for characters like Gordon.

Exactly. I don't give a **** if Gordon is black. Or Catwoman, who's been drawn in varying ethnically ambiguous ways in the comics anyway.

 

[fan4stic]

The point is that you can make a credible argument beyond personal preference as to why Bruce Wayne should be white. The same isn’t true for characters like Gordon.

I don't think so. I don't see what I think could be potential inference as that much credible than a Gordon being white thing.

 

[Mindreaper21]

Gordon’s race isn’t important at all. Just make sure he has a mustache and I’m good. Jeffrey is a really good actor and believe he’ll pull it off.

Also, if this has anything to do with Barbra, she’s not his biological daughter anyway.

 

[Dr.]

It’s no mystery why “mainstream” characters created in the 1930s/40s were white. And, arguably, they should still be white for “period” representations (where the action is set in the past). But the superhero genre typically and continually updates its mythos to the “present.” Thus, for example, the Christopher Reeve version of Superman was born in 1948; the Tom Welling version was mid-1980s. So with each update and modernization, there’s less reason to be obligated to the norms of prior decades - including racial “norms.”

Now, with certain characters, their race is said to be intrinsic. Black Panther is one such (obvious) example. And it’s argued that Bruce Wayne is another - on the basis that the Waynes are a venerable New England family with “old money.” Ergo, they’re white. But, ultimately, the Waynes’ wealth is just an expedient to explain how Batman is able to acquire his fantastical tech. So if the fictional biography were simply rewritten to “new money,” the Waynes could be black (though without a name change, perhaps not Latino or Chinese ).

In any case, it doesn’t seem like there’s been a mad rush to “race swap” most classic/iconic characters (notwithstanding rumors about James Bond). For instance, all recent versions of Sherlock Holmes have been white (including the two “contemporary” re-imaginings). Likewise: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Shazam, the Flash, Green Arrow, Supergirl, Batwoman, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist (!), Wolverine, Iron Man, Thor, Captain Marvel, ...etc., ad nauseam...

So in this light, changing the race/gender of supporting characters (and only a few at that) represents a fairly modest "revisionism."

 

[Sawyer]

 

[Kane52630]

 

[David H.]

Train’s no way to come to Gotham... in an airplane, from above, all you’d see are the streets and buildings.

Fool you into thinking it’s civilized.

 

[TheVileOne]

Billy Dee Williams. Harvey Dent.

So go back and look at the history of the last 30 years of comic book movies. Hollywood will race and gender flip the supporting characters, but not the main ones. It's been an ongoing thing for decades.

Kerry Washington as Alicia Masters in Fantastic Four.

Vondie Curtis Hall as Ben Urich.

Carrie-Anne Moss as Jeryn Hogarth.

Robert Pattinson is Batman now.

Jeffrey Wright is Gordon.

That's it. Get over it.

 

[Invader Joker]

Billy Dee Williams. Harvey Dent.

So go back and look at the history of the last 30 years of comic book movies. Hollywood will race and gender flip the supporting characters, but not the main ones. It's been an ongoing thing for decades.

Kerry Washington as Alicia Masters in Fantastic Four.

Delroy Lindo as Ben Urich.

Carrie-Anne Moss as Jeryn Hogarth.

Robert Pattinson is Batman now.

Geoffrey Wright is Gordon.

That's it. Get over it.

No one was complaining in this thread recently... why bring up this tired debate again? Who are you telling "Get over it"?