I never got to read most of the Ultimate Avengers comics, can't find everything down here. :-/ And didn't Hawkeye do a leap off a building in the Ultimate Hawkeye too (granted he went after the Cap, I think. (or am I remembering it wrong) ?
Actually she should. Hawkeye (at least in the comics and apparently in the films too) doesn't stand a chance against Black Widow on his best day. This woman can take on both Captain America and Wolverine because of her sheer skill. Hawkeye is good hand to hand but he's not THAT good.
She took on 3 armed men tied to a chair. A limp is not going to slow her down.
I agree. In terms of archery and sniping skill, none can top Hawkeye, but when it comes to close-quarter melee combat BW is among the very best out there. So it makes sense that BW would win in a fighting style that is more to her liking. In an open field, though, BW probably won't stand a chance.
Actually she should. Hawkeye (at least in the comics and apparently in the films too) doesn't stand a chance against Black Widow on his best day. This woman can take on both Captain America and Wolverine because of her sheer skill. Hawkeye is good hand to hand but he's not THAT good.
She took on 3 armed men tied to a chair. A limp is not going to slow her down.
I'm a little fuzzy on that scene, but I thought Hawkeye actually had the upper hand on Black Widow with both a height and weight advantage (plus that he was actually playing for keeps while Widow was trying to keep things nonlethal) until she pulled a desperation move and managed to slam the guy's head on the railing.
Which in real life would lead to a concussion and a pretty serious risk of brain hemorrhage. SHIELD must have some fantastic neurologists on staff.
I agree. In terms of archery and sniping skill, none can top Hawkeye, but when it comes to close-quarter melee combat BW is among the very best out there. So it makes sense that BW would win in a fighting style that is more to her liking. In an open field, though, BW probably won't stand a chance.
dammit, i still can't get an avatar until I up my post count.
Also, Hawkeye is good from long distance, close combat he can probably stand his ground, but not against someone like BW whose specialty this is. The area they were fighting in wasn't to his advantage at all.
Plus, he does say he sees better from a distance, so what if he doesn't see quite as well at close distances, hence the weakness in close combat?
I'm a little fuzzy on that scene, but I thought Hawkeye actually had the upper hand on Black Widow with both a height and weight advantage (plus that he was actually playing for keeps while Widow was trying to keep things nonlethal) until she pulled a desperation move and managed to slam the guy's head on the railing.
Which in real life would lead to a concussion and a pretty serious risk of brain hemorrhage. SHIELD must have some fantastic neurologists on staff.
Well given all the tech SHIELD has, I don't discount that they have great medical staff. So that's entirely plausible, since post battle neither of them really had that many scars/bruises as such. Either they heal really quickly, or SHIELD has access to a medical tricorder or two....
I'm a little surprised Widow's "Bite" wasn't upgraded to make it more of a wrist gun with explosive compounds in the darts. The tiny guns she was using on the Chitauri were so teeny that they might as well have played more into specialist weapons for her. Underwrist, spring loaded blade for close quarter stabbing would have been a good addition too.
Hawkeye was still as much of a smart ass as he is in the comics. The difference is that he's not jokey, he has a sarcastic delivery. Examples of smart-assery "Get in line" "You and I remember Budapest very differently" "Want me to slow him down sir, or are you sending in more guys for him to beat up?" and others...
Hawkeye got the shaft in this one (which was logical and expected), but he was a strong enough character and presence to make me want him in a bigger role for A2. Renner did a great job and, out of all the big franchises he's participated in (M:I, Bourne and the MCU), this one is where he should stick to.
I don't get all the "WTF, Hawkeye's useless, he's just got a bow and arrows"
You guys are forgetting that Clint Barton is, whats that thing called oh yeah - human. Hes not a soldier on steroids, hes not a demigod, hes not a guy with a weapons suit of armor or a guy who can turn into a big green angry dude; Hawkeye is a weapons expert whose favorite weapon happens to be a compound bow (in The Avengers anyway) and a set of trick arrows. Which, to me, makes a lot of sense. Arrows are more accurate (depending on what he wants em to do).
Weve seen him take down one of the Hellicarriers engines with one of those, and he took out another engine by scrambling the computer systems with another arrow.
Arrows can do more damage than a typical gun. Especially the trick arrows Hawkeye uses. Who needs guns, right? You can do the same amount of damage, possibly more, with guns, but youd need several different ones, with the trick arrows, its more compact and user-friendly. All-in-one Quiver.
First time we meet Barton in this movie,
hes watching from up above, you can tell hes brooding as well. I cant help but wonder whats on his mind. When Loki tells him hes got heart, its a good shout out to the Hawkeye of the past at least in the comics.
The final fight,
Hawkeye had some badass moves on the ground as well as up on the roof. Doesn't matter if he didn't get much screen time. And Cap put him to good use by sending him up to the roof to be the eyes and ears of the team. Its what Hawkeye does best, he sees better from a distance. And he used the bow and arrows in nifty ways, covering others asses and taking out bad guys from above. So what if Loki caught the arrow sent his way, we saw what happened next, one of the BEST scenes of the movie with the Hulk tossing Loki around like a rag doll. So it worked out very well. If anything, Hawkeye is a great cockblocker with those arrows. Can you imagine if Hawkeye wasnt up there calling out whos where, who needs help and so on? The team would be screwed and all over the place in so many ways given the size of that battle alone.
It was a nice touch for him to run out of arrows too, usually that doesnt happen; and when he leapt off the building and crashed through the window to land on his back amongst glass, he didnt get up right away. He's human. Falls like that hurt like a mo-fo , even from much smaller distances than he went.
But the scene where they all assemble to hold up Loki, Hawkeyes the one in the middle, armed with his bow trained at Loki. That was just brilliantly framed and shot. It couldve been Iron man, with guns raised, it couldve been Black Widow with the glow stick of destiny, it couldve been the Cap with the shield, it couldve been Hulk, it couldve been Thor with the hammer, but no, it was Hawkeye in the center with his trusty bow and an arrow aimed at Loki.
I saw the movie four times, and at first I didnt think theyve uses Hawkeye enough, and I still think they didnt, but theres foreshadowing and hints of a tortured past. Out of all the others, hes the one with least backstory introduced, but perhaps that was cut out from the final movie. Because an EW.com interview, when asked about whos the most messed up of all, they all said Hawkeye. So Im thinking theres gotta be more, stuff that got cut out, perhaps.
Dont dismiss the archer just because hes got a bow and a set of arrows as his weapon of choice. Hes human, and him and BW are way in over their heads in this battle. As Black Widow mentions earlier this is nothing we were ever trained for Theyre trained assassins and spies, not superheroes and fighters against monsters and magic. Yet these two held their own next to Thor, Hulk, Iron Man and Captain America.
Joss Whedon did a nice job balancing all these characters and stringing the story together the way he did. Everyone had a part to play in the 'bigger' picture.
and just noticed I made an error. Hawkeye uses a recurve bow in The Avengers, and a compound one in Thor. Which I'm glad he didn't use a compound one in Avengers, the recurve looks a lot more badass.
My favourite character. I knew he'd have less screen time then the others, but I was actually pleasantly surprised with how much he had. And all the hints at a possible Black Widow/Hawkeye spin off.
I think Hawkeye's upcoming comic will have have a lot to do with a spin off. If it sells well, Marvel might give it the go ahead.
They seem to have been pushing Hawkeye a ridiculous amount in the last year or two (from my brief knowledge).
Jeremy Renner is also turning into a pretty big name. He's not a household draw yet, but he's getting there. He's been a main billed star in a few big films now. S.W.A.T. was quite a while ago, but in the past few years he's had The Hurt Locker, Mission Impossible, and now The Avengers. If Renner's Bourne film does well at the box office (I hate that series, but I will see it just to support Renner), then I think this movie is a big possibility.
Black Widow & Hawkeye.
You would also include Nick Fury, Agent Coulson (who I believe still have 2 pictures left on his deal), and even include The Hulk somehow (to bring even more star power).
See, I get that he was funnier in the comics but I actually think a lot of the time that can be lazy and derivative, to characterise a character like that. A lot of the time, they give a character one liners in lieu of any real depth and I'm glad that was not the case here. The important thing was, his maverick attitude came across. He's no nonsense and calls it how he see's it.
He's not Spidey or Deadpool, who ARE two characters where the one liners and corny humour IS very much a part of their character.
One thing i disliked was his fight with black widow. She was injured ind limping from the pipe landing on her leg, however she kinda wiped the floor with him. I know BW is badass and all but she shouldnt be able to dominate like that in a fight against Hawkeye, especially not on 1 and a half legs
He got some pretty good shots in, and the way I looked at it (from what we later find out with Selvig in that he was able to put a 'failsafe' into machine) I think deep down Hawkeye was resisting fighting her - which allowed her the upper hand to take him out (if that makes sense). I also think it's why he didn't take a head shot to Fury at the beginning
See, I get that he was funnier in the comics but I actually think a lot of the time that can be lazy and derivative, to characterise a character like that. A lot of the time, they give a character one liners in lieu of any real depth and I'm glad that was not the case here. The important thing was, his maverick attitude came across. He's no nonsense and calls it how he see's it.
He's not Spidey or Deadpool, who ARE two characters where the one liners and corny humour IS very much a part of their character.
Well, in retrospect, the persona he was given in the movie makes a lot of sense....he's a sniper, essentially. Snipers --- and I'm generalizing here, I know --- have a very quiet, patient, stoic attitude, and that's exactly the kind of vibe you get from MCU Hawkeye. I think it works pretty well; if he *is* SHIELD's top sniper, then he needs the look and attitude of MCU Hawkeye, not dressing up in gaudy purple flash and snapping off one-liners. Maybe this is the way Comic Book Clint shoulda been all along.
He got some pretty good shots in, and the way I looked at it (from what we later find out with Selvig in that he was able to put a 'failsafe' into machine) I think deep down Hawkeye was resisting fighting her - which allowed her the upper hand to take him out (if that makes sense). I also think it's why he didn't take a head shot to Fury at the beginning
That's a good point. And the sort of thing that just makes the character even deeper. So he wasn't a total lackey to a degree. and I wish we could've gotten to see the mental fight in his mind for control.
Well, in retrospect, the persona he was given in the movie makes a lot of sense....he's a sniper, essentially. Snipers --- and I'm generalizing here, I know --- have a very quiet, patient, stoic attitude, and that's exactly the kind of vibe you get from MCU Hawkeye. I think it works pretty well; if he *is* SHIELD's top sniper, then he needs the look and attitude of MCU Hawkeye, not dressing up in gaudy purple flash and snapping off one-liners. Maybe this is the way Comic Book Clint shoulda been all along.
No, you're right. Snipers aren't typically Stark-like types. quiet, patient, calculating. you notice that he's always looking around (scouting the area he's in) and so on. He doesn't have to be slapstick funny, the movie version is quite alright in portraying him I think.
Problem with that, Black Widow uses guns as well. And we HAVE seen Hawkeye use guns in The Avengers. (he shot Fury after all.) I'd much rather he used the bow and arrows to be honest, that is his weapon of choice it seems. Granted, bow and a quiver full of arrows is a dead giveaway for certain missions, so who knows.
Well, in retrospect, the persona he was given in the movie makes a lot of sense....he's a sniper, essentially. Snipers --- and I'm generalizing here, I know --- have a very quiet, patient, stoic attitude, and that's exactly the kind of vibe you get from MCU Hawkeye. I think it works pretty well; if he *is* SHIELD's top sniper, then he needs the look and attitude of MCU Hawkeye, not dressing up in gaudy purple flash and snapping off one-liners. Maybe this is the way Comic Book Clint shoulda been all along.
Hawkeye had been an early favourite before the film because I had the sense that he was going to be one of the most interesting Avengers with comparable screen time but commendable presence and subtle character development, and it looks like I was right.
He's right up there with Hulk, and I think Agent Coulson as well (mainly because of the 'A Funny Thing Happened on The Way to Thor's Hammer' clip, and there is something about him). Cap America and Black Widow are very close second, but I'm sure after seeing it for the third time in captions (I'm deaf), I may bump them up.
He got some pretty good shots in, and the way I looked at it (from what we later find out with Selvig in that he was able to put a 'failsafe' into machine) I think deep down Hawkeye was resisting fighting her - which allowed her the upper hand to take him out (if that makes sense). I also think it's why he didn't take a head shot to Fury at the beginning
A few comics I've read, Hawkeye is a lot smarter than you think at first. Being under mind control, he wasn't thinking and probably made some mistakes. Real life Hawkeye would have created some space, backed up, and put an arrow through her eye. Like they said earlier in the film, Hawkeye already beat her when he was "human" when he let her live.
I agree with the idea that this is perhaps how 616 Clint should have been all along.
The problem with characters like him is he just get's written as jokey and one linery to try and make him look unique... But then you give him a team up with other one liner type characters and he looks much much LESS unique. Then you look at how someone like Bendis writes him, who makes ALL his characters sarcastic and droppin' one liners and you see the problem.
This Clint seemed much more well rounded, unique but had his own personality. I can see in Renners Hawkeye glimpses of a Clint Barton who could easily one day challenge Cap or Fury's authority and get hot headed and I can also seem glimpses of the man who could potentially lead a branch of the Avengers (like the comics)
see now...even that image....doesn't impress me. I'm just not impressed by bow and arrows....I mean, I liked Hawkeye in the Avengers, he was a good character...but if he wasn't there I wouldn't be sad.
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Which I'm glad he didn't use a compound one in Avengers, the recurve looks a lot more badass.
