The Rise of Skywalker JJ Abrams is Writing and Directing Episode IX

I never really saw OT Vader as above any of that stuff though. He's a slave, totally devoted to the Emperor. Sure he'd avoid personally slashing up kids if at all possible, but if Vader around ANH or ESB was explicitly told by Sheev "hey, slave, go slice & dice the space-elementary-school and choke that other lady", he'd probably do it.

Guy didn't have any issue with blowing up a planet, or torturing a 19 year old Senator, or choking his own men to death over relatively nothing to make a performance example to the others.
 
The thing that gets me is there is this weird undercurrent of "Rian Johnson must secretly a horrible person" that seems to always creep into the discussion when this movie gets discussed. I don't know, it's odd to me. If he finds Kylo interesting and complex, that's bad? Really? Isn't that how we the audience have been meant to view him since he first talked about feeling the call to the light in TFA? Was that all meant to be dropped the moment he killed Han? I don't think so. The fact that he's so hateable (more hateble than Vader, who let's face it..was just damn cool) while also being strangely sympathetic and complex is what makes him such a fascinating character.

I also don't think viewing Rey/Kylo has two halves of the same protagonist is something Johnson pulled out of thin air. That was an impression I've had since TFA. Even Kasdan referred to Kylo as an inverted Luke Skywalker. We were clearly getting a deeply conflicted character actively TRYING to be Vader. Kylo Ren has always been 'more' than just a villain. He carries a considerable amount of thematic weight in this trilogy. And Adam Driver's performance is the most consistently compelling thing about the ST so far.

Mind you, I personally don't need to see Kylo redeemed or anything. My point is merely that the fact that I can still see either outcome for him speaks to the fact that he's a damn interesting character where you can never quite be sure what he's going to do.
 
Yeah, absolutely. Some of these fans are pretty disturbing with all the personal stuff against him.

And thing is, Kylo is complex, psychologically. That doesn't mean he's not a terrible person, those things aren't mutually-exclusive. We've just seen him not-entirely-committal to the darkside for one-and-a-half movies, that's new and different. Hard to say which way they'll go with the guy in IX, especially given the time-gap/jump rumors, but from what we've seen so far...Rian's right, he's a complex guy.

He's still a monster. Just not a straight-up Devil analogue like Palpatine or Snoke.
 
Are the people who complain that Rey is a mary sue with no flaws, the same ones who complain about her relationship with Kylo? Rey's painfully naive. TLJ showed that she routinely loses herself in stories and is desperate to be the hero, first when she rushes to find the mythic Luke Skywalker, and later when she hears of the fall of Ben Solo and rushes off to save him. She gets slapped right in the face for these delusions,
 
Are the people who complain that Rey is a mary sue with no flaws, the same ones who complain about her relationship with Kylo? Rey's painfully naive. TLJ showed that she routinely loses herself in stories and is desperate to be the hero, first when she rushes to find the mythic Luke Skywalker, and later when she hears of the fall of Ben Solo and rushes off to save him. She gets slapped right in the face for these delusions,

That's more part of her being a copy of Luke Skywalker. He was also naive and put everything on the line on the hope that one of the most evil men in the galaxy was redeemable, with much less evidence to support it than Rey had.

There's not really anything that Rey is worse at than Luke. Mostly she's just better.
 
What "evidence" did Luke have Vader could be turned back? He's his dad? C'mon, Luke was going on wishful thinking and it just happened to pay off.

Yoda & Obi wanted him dead, not redeemed.
 
What "evidence" did Luke have Vader could be turned back? He's his dad? C'mon, Luke was going on wishful thinking and it just happened to pay off.

Yoda & Obi wanted him dead, not redeemed.

Again you should read more carefully. I literally said that Luke did what he did with "much less evidence to support it than Rey had".
 
Which was my point. *Attempts resisting to shoot back a 'maybe you should try reading more carefully' snide remark - relents* Maybe try reading a little more carefully.

There was no evidence to support Vader being able to be turned back, beyond Luke's own intuition. There's at least the gut feeling of Han & Leia in addition that Rey's basing it on with Ben, two people she's been through something major with and trusts.

Whereas Yoda & Obi were just basically "be patient, we'll train you up, then you go kill the giant asthmatic ****er".

How is Rey's approach to Ben remotely a "copy" of Luke, given that?
 
Last edited:
Which was my point. *Attempts resisting to shoot back a 'maybe you should try reading more carefully' snide remark - relents* Maybe try reading a little more carefully.

There was no evidence to support Vader being able to be turned back, beyond Luke's own intuition. There's at least the gut feeling of Han & Leia in addition that Rey's basing it on with Ben, two people she's been through something major with and trusts.

Whereas Yoda & Obi were just basically "be patient, we'll train you up, then you go kill the giant asthmatic ****er".

How is Rey's approach to Ben remotely a "copy" of Luke, given that?

Your question makes no sense if you claim to have understood my point. You don't ask someone what evidence there is when that person just said that there was almost none.

The point is that it's just another case of when Rey is a copy of Luke but just being portrayed as better. More competent at everything and more shallow flaws.

That being said I don't think your speculation on Han and Leia makes any sense. Rey literally saw Han's trust fail in the biggest way possible and we didn't see her discuss the matter with Leia.
 
You compared the two as being the same, as the Rey thing being a rehash of Luke in terms of seeking to turn the villain. They're in different situations with all of that, in terms of info available and motivations.

Hence she's hardly a copy.

Of course it makes sense.

As for Han being wrong about him, sure, he was. At least at that stage. But she's met Leia right after, there's some time that passes there, they've likely discussed what went down with Ben. She knows Leia & Han hadn't written him off. That's way more than Luke had to go on, as Obi & Yoda had written Vader off. They're different situations.
 
It is a rehash with her trying to redeem her Vader, even ending up in a throne room scene with her target and his master. All the broad strokes are there, it's just slightly changed up.

We go by what we see and her main information on Kylo (apart from Kylo himself) is Luke, who has given up on him.
 
Last edited:
Well, you said it yourself. Broad strokes.

Welcome to basic narrative convention, hero's journey stuff. It plays out different but shares the same basic broad framing. That all goes back to friggin' Beowulf if you want to get really broad on this.
 
Well, you said it yourself. Broad strokes.

Welcome to basic narrative convention, hero's journey stuff. It plays out different but shares the same basic broad framing. That all goes back to friggin' Beowulf if you want to get really broad on this.

It's of course not broad strokes on a general narrative scale. It's broad strokes in the way that you have the young force user hero going to confront his/her nemesis which they see good in and try to turn them to the light.

I just called it broad strokes because I wanted to avoid some nitpicks about details being different, as that would just miss the point. Apparently that happened anyway though.
 
Fanthatracks - Exclusive: Episode IX gets a new working title

http://www.fanthatracks.com/news/film-music-tv/exclusive-episode-ix-gets-a-new-working-title/

Back in December we brought you the news that Episode IX was motoring ahead under the working title of Black Diamond, fast forward six months and with J.J. Abrams ready to begin shooting next month we have a change in working title.

Fantha Tracks can now exclusively reveal that the working title for Episode IX has been changed to “trIXie.”

http://www.fanthatracks.com/news/film-music-tv/exclusive-episode-ix-gets-a-new-working-title/

AVTpbzN.png


That's pretty on the nose. ¯\_(?)_/¯

Wikipedia: "Trixie is a generally derogatory slang term referring to a young urban white woman, typically single and in her late 20s or early 30s."

What does Trixie mean?
Form of BEATRICE. bringer of joy

https://www.babycenter.com/baby-names-trixie-4510.htm
 
Last edited:
They should just keep that as the final title.
 
Variety - J.J. Abrams Seeking Record-Shattering Overall Megadeal (EXCLUSIVE)

Several major Hollywood studios are courting J.J. Abrams, who is looking to land a lucrative megadeal with a big media company, a number of Hollywood insiders toldVariety.

People familiar with the matter say Abrams’ ambitions are vast and that the prolific producer, writer, and director behind “Alias” and “Star Wars: The Force Awakens” is on the hunt for the kind of super nova-sized deal that would encompass films, television series, digital content, music, games, consumer products, and theme park opportunities.

He is insisting on a certain number of “put pictures,” an industry term for a specific number of guaranteed slots on a studio’s slate of movies. It’s the kind of mega-deal reserved for Abrams’ mentor and friend Steven Spielberg.

Abrams is eager to set a new high-water mark for the value of the deal, with some speculating he hopes for a pact worth half-a-billion dollars or more. The talks are being shepherded by CAA president Richard Lovett, Abrams’ agent, and attorneys Alan Wertheimer and Jim Jackoway of Jackoway Tyerman Wertheimer Austen Mandelbaum Morris & Klein, one of the insiders said.

Among those making the pitch to team Abrams: Walt Disney Company CEO Bob Iger and Disney studio chairman Alan Horn; Universal Filmed Entertainment Group chairman Jeff Shell and Universal Pictures chairman Donna Langley; and Warner Bros. Entertainment CEO Kevin Tsujihara.
Disney, one party wages, is in the pole position since the company has a strong foothold with Abrams thanks to his work in the “Star Wars” universe as a writer, executive producer, and director. He’s currently working on “Star Wars: Episode IX,” which has been billed as a course correction at Lucasfilm after spinoff films like “Solo” failed to meet the label’s high commercial expectations. He enjoys a close relationship with Iger.
 
Last edited:
Are the people who complain that Rey is a mary sue with no flaws, the same ones who complain about her relationship with Kylo? Rey's painfully naive. TLJ showed that she routinely loses herself in stories and is desperate to be the hero, first when she rushes to find the mythic Luke Skywalker, and later when she hears of the fall of Ben Solo and rushes off to save him. She gets slapped right in the face for these delusions,
I never though Rey was a Mary Sue, particularly in TFA, where she was a toughened survivor with a few chips on her soldier, a tendency towards the pragmatic and stubborn, a believable case of denial centered on the emotional rejection implied by her parents abandoning her, and rough, sometimes clumsy application of her skills, including her Force skills.

...But she was clearly written badly in TLJ, mixing some of the more boring aspects usually associated with Mary Sues (no longer struggling with the Force, just being strong *because,* not needing training) with some incredibly Kylo-centric and characterization-less actions and scenes that make it clear her perspective post-TFA never entered into the writing. Without any explanation, reasoning, or sound emotional reasoning, she starts sympathizing with the guy who tortured her a day ago, then killed her friend/father figure before maiming her other friend for defending her, and who never once offers any adequate argument for why he should be considered anything beyond a "creature in a mask" or "monster." Hell, he even agrees with her on that last one!

Nothing of actual depth is revealed to Rey about "Ben;" even the "innocent" Ben she sees in a flashback reportedly became a mass murderer of his fellow students right afterwards, which sort of undercuts and contradicts the purpose of making Luke's homicidal reaction wrong. And whatever perspective she has of "Ben" is so shallow she can't see that he was never going to be redeemed end at this point, which combines with the film ignoring everything he's done to her and her friends to just make the writing for her bad, and to kind of poison the well of "Reylo."

Even the way the film tries to treat the parentage mystery is just kind of stupid: Rey never thought she was special in TFA, and like an actual person, was far more concerned with the emotional implications of being abandoned, not with some meta-textual obsession with having an important lineage.

Rian Johnson basically demoted Rey from actual lead to a tool he could use to lavish some worship on Kylo Ren or to be an audience surrogate to explain "Jake" Skywalker.
What "evidence" did Luke have Vader could be turned back? He's his dad? C'mon, Luke was going on wishful thinking and it just happened to pay off.

Yoda & Obi wanted him dead, not redeemed.
Not to be rude, but I think you're actually incorrect here.

When Luke surrendered to the Empire, he wasn't "going on wishful thinking," and he wasn't even focusing on redeeming his father yet. Luke surrendered to Vader because Vader could track him, and he knew he was a liability to the Strike Team if he remained with them. He did nothing comparable to shutting himself in a box and mailing himself to the enemy for the sake of an enemy's soul; his objective was to simply distract Vader and the Emperor long enough for the Death Star to blow up...

...And then, in his first conversation with his father, he *does* get evidence that Vader could be turned. Kasdan's dialogue on the bridge and the directing therein has Vader express filial pride in Luke's growth, vulnerability towards the memory of who he once was via his touchy reaction against his old name, and genuine sorrow and regret at what he's become and an awareness that the dark side is terrible. Plus, Luke has recieved first hand information from both Yoda and Obi-Wan that his father actually was a hero once, one worthy of admiration before he fell.

When Luke claims to sense conflict in Vader after being forced to take up his lightsaber, he actually has *genuine* evidence in Vader's behavior that makes the claim make sense... Unlike Rey in TLJ, who has her character contorted around Kylo on what's either the flimsiest of pretexts or a complete lack thereof so she can help him get promoted without him having to be written well either.
 
The Rey is a Mary Sue stuff is so tiresome to me at this point. I just want to move on. I'd rather have Rey as a protagonist than Hayden Christensen's Anakin.

And yeah I do have problems with a lot of Rey's execution in Last Jedi. But hopefully they can make improvements for Episode 9.

People complained that Episode 7 played it too safe.

People complained that Episode 8 didn't play it safe enough.

Ironic.
 
The Rey is a Mary Sue stuff is so tiresome to me at this point. I just want to move on. I'd rather have Rey as a protagonist than Hayden Christensen's Anakin.

And yeah I do have problems with a lot of Rey's execution in Last Jedi. But hopefully they can make improvements for Episode 9.

People complained that Episode 7 played it too safe.

People complained that Episode 8 didn't play it safe enough.

Ironic.
I have a lot of faith in Abrams when it comes to the characterization and use of his cast; to be honest, it's the biggest thing that encourages me about Episode IX. I don't see him ignoring any of the heroes' perspectives out of his love of one over the others, as RJ did. I mean, Abrams basically perfected the Finn and Rey scenes in TFA when given the chance via reshoots. The man has an innate feel for what the characters need.

I will ad that while I think TLJ "didn't play it safe enough" regarding Luke, I have to applaud his ambition and intent, and I actually think that most of my other complaints are just execution issues caused by an overworked, Kylo-centric and barely overconfident Rian Johnson... Except for when it came to the political and military side of the story, where I think he honestly played it even more safe than Abrams did in TFA, to the detriment of the film. I mean, there's nothing ambitious about the First Order suddenly being an exagerrated parody of the Empire, or the Resistance just becoming the Rebellion.

Abrams should ensure quality control in a lot of areas.... But he does need some Johnson-level ambition for some areas.
 
My only big concern about Abrams is he might do Vader's Redemption 2.0. Which would be repetitive and clash with TLJ and make Rey and Kylo's arc in TLJ feel like a waste of time.
 
My only big concern about Abrams is he might do Vader's Redemption 2.0. Which would be repetitive and clash with TLJ and make Rey and Kylo's arc in TLJ feel like a waste of time.
I think a Kylo/Ben redemption story can be done, but would be much better served by a Ulic Qel-Droma in Tales of the Jedi: Redemption" kind of story. A Vader-esque redemption would be bad; not only is it redundant, but we've already had it teased in TLJ and blown up, and, quite frankly, Rey needs to be the one landing the final blow in IX for victory, and Kylo needs to be the main villain throughout as well, because TLJ kind of screwed that up.

Have Rey break his mind/identity of Kylo, and have Ben Solo be a miserable, pitiable wreck of a human being who ends up exiled or marooned on a planet so he has to do a penance that ironically mimics Rey's origins on Jakku.
 
When Luke surrendered to the Empire, he wasn't "going on wishful thinking," and he wasn't even focusing on redeeming his father yet. Luke surrendered to Vader because Vader could track him, and he knew he was a liability to the Strike Team if he remained with them. He did nothing comparable to shutting himself in a box and mailing himself to the enemy for the sake of an enemy's soul; his objective was to simply distract Vader and the Emperor long enough for the Death Star to blow up...

...And then, in his first conversation with his father, he *does* get evidence that Vader could be turned. Kasdan's dialogue on the bridge and the directing therein has Vader express filial pride in Luke's growth, vulnerability towards the memory of who he once was via his touchy reaction against his old name, and genuine sorrow and regret at what he's become and an awareness that the dark side is terrible. Plus, Luke has recieved first hand information from both Yoda and Obi-Wan that his father actually was a hero once, one worthy of admiration before he fell.

When Luke claims to sense conflict in Vader after being forced to take up his lightsaber, he actually has *genuine* evidence in Vader's behavior that makes the claim make sense... Unlike Rey in TLJ, who has her character contorted around Kylo on what's either the flimsiest of pretexts or a complete lack thereof so she can help him get promoted without him having to be written well either.



In Empire? C'mon man. Vader's comments about Luke's growth are impressed in the sense that he's powerful & useful, not like "hey, guess the kid might not fall down the same path I did". It's just like "Obi-Wan has taught you well, that'll make you a proficient apprentice once we kill Sheev together and shape the galaxy to our own next-gen Sith-y will instead" kind of thing.

Yoda & Obi don't want Anakin turned, either. Or at least there's nothing on-screen showing they even think that's possible. Luke basically gambled it on feelings, gut, intuition, force stuff, but it seems even Yoda hadn't put it together yet that that's the way you end Palps, through Vader's leftover compassion from Anakin. It's never really explained what the hell he figured Luke was to do about Palpatine once he'd taken out Vader, but Yoda wasn't around for the specifics of Jedi anyway, nothing to say he ever expected Palps would be present during a Luke/Vader confrontation.

First time Luke actually has reason to believe there's something positive left to Vader is in Jedi, that Endor passageway. That's pretty far along in the scheme of things, Yoda's dead, he doesn't talk to Ben again after that, altering plans or whatever. It's basically gut instinct, of a 21/22 year old kid who's still basically not even Jedi Knight level by prequels standards. It paid off, but Luke doesn't know what the hell Vader's going to do in the throne room, it's a 50/50 tossup.

As for using Empire as an example though? Sure, Lucas & Kasdan & Kershner were clearly developing Vader behind the scenes and he wasn't going to be a straight-up mustache-twirler like he is in A New Hope for the whole trilogy, but none of that was known in-universe to Luke. Luke still figures the guy's straight-up Hitler McSatan right up until after the duel, where he's flying away injured on the Falcon, that's where the first gears start turning. And that's still basically an emotional kid who's just found out he's got family left, it's hope, it's not pragmatic "maybe someday he'll turn all hugs & puppies and help me kill his boss in the name of freeeeddoooom, and here's the evidence to back it".
 
In Empire? C'mon man. Vader's comments about Luke's growth are impressed in the sense that he's powerful & useful, not like "hey, guess the kid might not fall down the same path I did". It's just like "Obi-Wan has taught you well, that'll make you a proficient apprentice once we kill Sheev together and shape the galaxy to our own next-gen Sith-y will instead" kind of thing.

Yoda & Obi don't want Anakin turned, either. Or at least there's nothing on-screen showing they even think that's possible. Luke basically gambled it on feelings, gut, intuition, force stuff, but it seems even Yoda hadn't put it together yet that that's the way you end Palps, through Vader's leftover compassion from Anakin. It's never really explained what the hell he figured Luke was to do about Palpatine once he'd taken out Vader, but Yoda wasn't around for the specifics of Jedi anyway, nothing to say he ever expected Palps would be present during a Luke/Vader confrontation.

First time Luke actually has reason to believe there's something positive left to Vader is in Jedi, that Endor passageway. That's pretty far along in the scheme of things, Yoda's dead, he doesn't talk to Ben again after that, altering plans or whatever. It's basically gut instinct, of a 21/22 year old kid who's still basically not even Jedi Knight level by prequels standards. It paid off, but Luke doesn't know what the hell Vader's going to do in the throne room, it's a 50/50 tossup.

As for using Empire as an example though? Sure, Lucas & Kasdan & Kershner were clearly developing Vader behind the scenes and he wasn't going to be a straight-up mustache-twirler like he is in A New Hope for the whole trilogy, but none of that was known in-universe to Luke. Luke still figures the guy's straight-up Hitler McSatan right up until after the duel, where he's flying away injured on the Falcon, that's where the first gears start turning. And that's still basically an emotional kid who's just found out he's got family left, it's hope, it's not pragmatic "maybe someday he'll turn all hugs & puppies and help me kill his boss in the name of freeeeddoooom, and here's the evidence to back it".
I was actually referring to Jedi the whole way; I think I screwed up in figuring what exactly the argument was. If you were arguing "Rey's mistake in TLJ isn't copying Luke's mistake in ESB," then we are actually in agreement there. My point was supposed to be "Rey's mistake in TLJ is badly thought out on a writing level, and in deliberately aping ROTJ for that sequence rather than ESB, exposes how poorly written it is, even to the point of incorrectly evaluating what ROTJ plotline it was badly trying to mimic."

To me, TLJ's Rey plot is trying to use the wrong interpretation of ROTJ's story to try and subvert it with its own take on the throne room scene, and is only aggravating its issues with writing Rey as a prop instead of a person by mimicking ROTJ... But doing it from the wrong starting point as well. Rey has no reason to suppose Kylo will be redeemed, not even that Ben was actually a good person before hand, while Luke not only has some reason to have faith in his father, but isn't even operating off that hope until he has accomplished an entirely different objective. Luke was actually being written as a three-dimensional protagonist of ROTJ, while Rey was being made into a flat prop defined by Rian Johnson's sympathy for Kylo Ren, who, along with Luke, was effectively promoted to actual lead in TLJ even though he was fundamentally underwritten for that role.

Since that part of TLJ is trying to be ROTJ instead of ESB, I felt that it was 100% accurate to point out that ROTJ was actually written well there, while TLJ was... Not.
 
Luke's "mistake" in ESB being what though? The cave thing, or ditching the training to go save Han/Leia?

As for TLJ, I don't see how it's "apeing ROTJ" either. The throne scene plays out entirely differently, it's a whole different dynamic. Yes, Kylo's a wild card as far as Rey's concerned, same as Vader was for Luke, but she seems to have far more to go on in terms of a schism between Snoke & Kylo. They've been conversing pretty significantly, Kylo's pretty open about how they're both special and there's more in store for them than just being Snoke's attack dogs. It's a little more than just "he's Han's/Leia's kid, surely there's some good left in him".

And what's this "wrong" interpretation of ROTJ you're referring to. Again, George loved TLJ, pretty sure he's not going to go out of his way with that type of praise if he felt it was based in a fundamental misunderstanding of EpVI.
 
Luke's "mistake" in ESB being what though? The cave thing, or ditching the training to go save Han/Leia?

As for TLJ, I don't see how it's "apeing ROTJ" either. The throne scene plays out entirely differently, it's a whole different dynamic. Yes, Kylo's a wild card as far as Rey's concerned, same as Vader was for Luke, but she seems to have far more to go on in terms of a schism between Snoke & Kylo. They've been conversing pretty significantly, Kylo's pretty open about how they're both special and there's more in store for them than just being Snoke's attack dogs. It's a little more than just "he's Han's/Leia's kid, surely there's some good left in him".

And what's this "wrong" interpretation of ROTJ you're referring to. Again, George loved TLJ, pretty sure he's not going to go out of his way with that type of praise if he felt it was based in a fundamental misunderstanding of EpVI.
For the ESB thing, it'd be the going for Leia and Han.

But back to Rey going to Kylo...

No, she has *nothing* to go on in terms of a schism between Kylo and Snoke. We, the audience, have witnessed how Rian Johnson's more petty take on everyone has led to Kylo being pushed more by Snoke making fun of his cosplay helmet than anything serious, like his killing of his father under Snoke's direction or being manipulated by Snoke, but Rey has seen none of that.

And as much as Rian Johnson thought the tone and style of his story was one of Rey and Kylo having any depth at all, the actual substance of his script is painfully and blatantly shallow in their connections.

There's nothing significant in their conversations for Rey, the nominal lead hero; the film never takes a stab at addressing her being tortured, Han being killed, or Finn being maimed all by Kylo, only having Kylo just kind of shrug and say "hey, I may have murdered my father, but it wasn't because I hated him" without trying to actually justify or explain why that should be forgiven. Nor does it believably give her a reasons to see him as anything beyond a dedicated a space fascist: she fundamentally gains no insight into what made Kylo be dark enough to set off Luke's alarm bells, and when the film has Ben/Kylo then murder his school right afterwards, it's unintentionally suggesting Luke's homicidal urge was actually right, even though that's antithetical to Star Wars morality. And the depth of the connection cannot have any depth if neither Rey nor Kylo can see how blatantly obvious their loyalties and goals are; not a single audience member could possibly believe that Rey would actually go evil, or that Kylo would go good.

From Rey's perspective, she was:

- Captured by Kylo, who then tortured her and violated her mind,
- Then he killed someone she was beginning to see as a father figure, a particularly awful crime to someone who has yearned for familial bonds as Rey has, and unthinkable that Kylo would kill that,
- Then he tortured, maimed, and tried to kill the friend who has Justin proved himself her most faithful ally and companion for trying to defend her,
- All while being a blatantly evil space fascist who's an accomplice to system-wide genocide,
- Then, in TLJ, when they meet again, he immediately tries to violate her mind again before she stops him,
- She discovers from both his and Luke's testimony that while they disagree on who started the hut confrontation, they both acknowledged that Kylo immediately slaughtered his school afterwards,

And then just like that, she suddenly sympathizes with him, and looks to him for solace when Rian Johnson's script decides she's petty and shallow enough to care more about her parents being someone important than being abandoned and having Han and Finn come back for her, and is sad a mirror didn't answer her questions.

WHAT THE HELL?!?

The only reason for Rey being in that throne room, which most definitely *is* aping ROTJ until it gets to its twist, is because Rian Johnson wants her there. The only reason she has any thought that Kylo could be redeemed is because Rian Johnson needs that to be the case so he can have Rey acting as Luke in ROTJ's throneroom scene. The only reason she has moved past his actions against her and cares about a "Ben" she doesn't know is because Rian Johnson is a Kylo fanboy and is apathetic towards the other characters, including her. And the only reason she even goes to the Suprmacy is to try and save "Ben;" it can't be to pragmatically eliminate a the greatest threat, because then that same pragmatism would have been active when Rey wakes up to see an unconscious Kylo with no on else around yet, and Kylo would have been captured or killed, and Rian Johnson doesn't care that Rey, as the lead, needs that kind of thought line answered because it's not about his precious Kylo.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"